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  • #16
    Originally posted by Nemo
    i was wondering why Firaxis choose the Americans to be an Expansionist over Scientific? Was there a historical reasoning for it, of was it for play balance?
    expansionists. another word for imperialists
    Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
    Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
    giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

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    • #17
      Some of the civ abilities need to be modified. Like why aren't the English industrious? They were the first ones to enter the industrial age you know.
      However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

      Comment

      • #18
        Expansionistic abilities aren't that shabby. It depends on the desity of goodie huts and the bonus. If the shift is good enough to eliminate barbarians hordes, an expansionist could collect a huge army of units from goodie huts and go on conquering.

        This is basically a short term ability that one has to use to pummel one's opponents before their abilities let them run away.

        Special abilities go a long way dictating a nation's long term strategy. For example, the Chinese should play a defensive game, with bronze working and masonry in the beginning, they are hard to crush. They need to rely on their scientific and industrial strengths to outperform their opponents. On the other hand, the Zulus should go recklessly expanding and crush anybody they find as fast as they can.
        (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
        (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
        (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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        • #19
          Firaxis, what were you guys drinking when you wrote the list? Since when are the french industrious? And Russian scientific, while Americans aren't? Have you ever read a russian scientific publication? It's useless! And in the meantime, 75% of the worlds science is published by authors working in america...

          (Caveat, I'm not american myself... I just thought it looked really odd... And if I might flaunt my bias for a sec, where are the Vikings?!!!!)

          Oh well, I guess it is all editable, right? Can I edit the french to 'evil smelling' and 'cowardly'?

          Gnu Ex Machina - the Gnu in the Machine

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          • #20
            BTW, TechWin, I had the same problem as you, but if you right click on the window, select 'select all', copy, and then paste it into excel you can see effect 2 just fine...
            Gnu Ex Machina - the Gnu in the Machine

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            • #21
              Moral Hazard, didn't see your post until now

              Hmm, I would actually make them commercial and Expansionistic. As a civilization they are as expansionistic as they get, they are just not very good at it...
              Gnu Ex Machina - the Gnu in the Machine

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              • #22
                I've already done that awhile ago CyberGnu but still thanks for the advice.

                Yes the abilities are editable.

                I'm glad that there aren't any negative effects included. I hated it in SMAC when I started out and no matter what I had something wrong with me.

                What exactly is the City Center? Is that just the term for where you place your food/shield/trade allocations?

                I'm not very familiar (I'm only somewhat familiar) with Japanesse history but in when were the Japanesse militariastic besides the WW2 stage. I've always though of the Japanesse of being an isolated on purpose civ. They may have had some war rivals and had started some wars but I don't think a few scuffles like that really makes them militariastic. Then again if they're not militariastic what other option would have been chosen for them?
                I think these civ abilities will be the first thing I will edit with the game. The basic concept is good it's just that some of the marked abilities aren't correct. Maybe I should say they aren't as correct as other markable abilities.
                However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

                Comment

                • #23
                  CyberGnu,

                  Do remember that the Russians launched the first satellite and sent the first man into space.


                  TechWins,

                  Surely the Japanese were/are a militaristic bunch. Ever after the Meiji Restoration they were looking outward for territories to conquer. They occupied and eventually annexed Korea. They took Taiwan. They fought the Russians. Even now their defense budget is the second largest in the world.
                  (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                  (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                  (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                  Comment

                  • #24
                    I'd switch the American and British abilities. The Industrial Revolution did happen in Britain...
                    Världsstad - Dom lokala genrenas vän
                    Mick102, 102,3 Umeå, Måndagar 20-21

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                    • #25
                      Surely the Japanese were/are a militaristic bunch. Ever after the Meiji Restoration they were looking outward for territories to conquer. They occupied and eventually annexed Korea. They took Taiwan. They fought the Russians. Even now their defense budget is the second largest in the world.
                      Wouldn't this mean that the Americans should be militariastic? We took over almost half of a continent, some by military action and some by diplomatic action. We have several territories and a huge defence budget. So the Americans have been militariastic over the span of our history. While the Japanesse have only been militariastic about as long as the Americans) but that is only a small portion of Japanesse history.
                      However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

                      Comment

                      • #26
                        Not really. Before that they had these big fights for the position of Shogun, as all these feudal lords had huge armies of samurais. They also had a fairly warlike tradition in the form of Shinto.

                        The US is of course militaristic, but it was even more expansionistic for a large part of its history.
                        (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                        (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                        (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                        Comment

                        • #27
                          Originally posted by CyberGnu
                          And Russian scientific, while Americans aren't? Have you ever read a russian scientific publication? It's useless! And in the meantime, 75% of the worlds science is published by authors working in america...
                          well, dunno about distribution patterns in serengeti....
                          russian basic sciences are still top notch - maths, physics, etc. their engineers still beat american ones for every buck invested - take a look at new airplanes, tanks, etc. true, their home appliancies suck but overall their contribution to rocketry and space flight science is enough to put them where they are

                          well americans should definitely be scientific, but then they could not be expansionist which would suck big time

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                          • #28
                            The site still has a few problems:

                            1) Sidebar link glitch.
                            2) Civ-abilities scroll bar. (looks like they miscalculated the window size or forgot to incorparate a scrollbar.
                            Alex

                            Comment

                            • #29
                              Alex what does that have to do with anything? Actually I'm glad you posted it here instead of making some poll about it.

                              I would like to say boohyah grandma my very first thread has been mentioned in the Civ3 news.
                              However, it is difficult to believe that 2 times 2 does not equal 4; does that make it true? On the other hand, is it really so difficult simply to accept everything that one has been brought up on and that has gradually struck deep roots – what is considered truth in the circle of moreover, really comforts and elevates man? Is that more difficult than to strike new paths, fighting the habitual, experiencing the insecurity of independence and the frequent wavering of one’s feelings and even one’s conscience, proceeding often without any consolation, but ever with the eternal goal of the true, the beautiful, and the good? - F.N.

                              Comment

                              • #30
                                Though I will certainly try to enjoy the Civ's special abilities, I do have reservations at this time. Not only because the concept failed for me in Alpha Centauri.

                                Seeing the discussion here, there is already disagreement concerning the accuracy of the alloted traits.

                                Also, I am not sure whether the concept does justice to historical biases. Many of these traits are more in place for a limited timeframe, not for *all* of a civ's history.

                                I get a sort of cartoon-esque feeling from these special abilities.

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