AU207: Big Planet - Strategy, Spoilers and Comments

[Arrian]

Originally posted by badams52
I'm really looking forward to your future posts Arrian to see if you can get UP.

*snip*

Also just wonder what you think about building your FP near the palace with your leader then palace jump later with a new leader you get from all the war going on. I seem to remember you were in favor of quick FP builds earlier...

I intend to try, of course.

As for the Palace/FP thing, I've been thinking more and more about that. The problem is, Thebes is pretty much centered in the southern core of my empire. Even moving the "eye of the corruption storm" one city south would kinda throw things off-kilter. Then again, its getting late in the game, and I'd love to move my Palace up north for the flip-fighting power it has (flip prevention in the city its built in, of course, but also the proximity to capitol boost it will give to surrounding towns).

I'm considering biting the bullet and building the FP just south of Thebes, and then immediately rushing the Palace in Berlin - for now - counting on another leader to later move the Palace further north. With the HE and several more civs to kill, more leaders should appear.

Right now, I'm facing a potentially bloody war a long way from home. And I'm starting to worry about the civs on the "other continent" passing me in tech and snagging MY wonders (Bach & Smith's in particular).

-Arrian

[badams52]

Good game vulture!

Originally posted by vulture
The Mongols, with no cash and no gold per turn, decided to try and recoup their losses. They demanded my territory map and 17 gold. Since I was getting 32 per turn off them, I decided to give in, even though they'd have to have been crazy to declare war on yet another civ - they'd already lost a town or two to the Americans.

Wow I had noever thought of it that way before! My usual thoughts are, do I want to risk war now? If no, give in, if yes, shine 'em. Of course I don't know how often I have a gpt deal with a civ and then they demand tribute.

From the archives, we are proud to present the original plan for operation 'invade the heck out of Babylon', as drawn up by General Billoir down the pub one evening on the back of a beermat.

You had beer back then.

Actually, I did a quick web search on beer history and it seems that beer goes father back than civ itself. Around 6000 BC humans discover beer! This should be a researchable tech.

[badams52]

Originally posted by Arrian
I'm considering biting the bullet and building the FP just south of Thebes, and then immediately rushing the Palace in Berlin - for now - counting on another leader to later move the Palace further north. With the HE and several more civs to kill, more leaders should appear.

Right now, I'm facing a potentially bloody war a long way from home. And I'm starting to worry about the civs on the "other continent" passing me in tech and snagging MY wonders (Bach & Smith's in particular).

Ah yes, the "man, my capitol is already in the absolute prime position to battle corruption, it would be a shame to move it" start. Kind of makes you hope your capitol isn't in a great continental position to start of the game.

Ah yes, gotta have those wonders, otherwise it wouldn't be UP! And being a non-millitaristic civ creates more of a risk to war for leaders.

[Fosse]

Originally posted by badams52


Ah yes, the "man, my capitol is already in the absolute prime position to battle corruption, it would be a shame to move it" start. Kind of makes you hope your capitol isn't in a great continental position to start of the game.

Ah yes, gotta have those wonders, otherwise it wouldn't be UP! And being a non-millitaristic civ creates more of a risk to war for leaders.

I have actually built a new palace one city away from the capitol, built an FP in the original capitol, and then rushed the Palace out in its ideal position before.

Naturally, it's more time effecient to just rush the FP in the new area... but I wanted the culture boost, and I also feared my prospective new core cities flipping due to some high culture in the area.

[badams52]

Originally posted by Fosse
I have actually built a new palace one city away from the capitol, built an FP in the original capitol, and then rushed the Palace out in its ideal position before.

I never thought of that before. Brilliant, just brilliant!

[Arrian]

Actually, what might be better is to use a small wonder (if available... such as the Heroic Epic) to save up 200 shields in your capitol.

Then rush the palace elsewhere, and switch your former capitol from the small wonder to the FP, which would complete the following turn. Voila!

I'm considering that option too.

-Arrian

[Nor Me]

Catt, why did you build the Pyramids?
I built them since I had a high production city (because it was size 5) and I was going to claim the same land by settling however long it took to do so (Up to the 2 chokepoints). But you were in strong competion with Babylon and Germany for land.

Originally posted by Arrian
Actually, what might be better is to use a small wonder (if available... such as the Heroic Epic) to save up 200 shields in your capitol.

Using an equal cost wonder takes some micromanagement. Before PTW, your first city was at the top of your city list and produced first.


I'm at 690AD, still 6 turns from the FP. Could I get the other civs to research more for me if I didn't get so much gpt from them?

[Fosse]

Originally posted by Nor Me
Could I get the other civs to research more for me if I didn't get so much gpt from them?

They would definatly research more quickly, but not necessarily "for you."
It would probably cost you a great deal more to buy that from them.

If you don't keep their economy busy paying you gpt, then you have no guarantee their economies will work for you later on by selling you tech. As long as your the tech leader, you have that extra income as a guarantee.

Of course, if you mean letting them research and then beating it out of them, that's different.

[Nor Me]

Fosse, provided I get to a different tech first, I can always trade if I'm at peace. As you can see I have gold to spare anyway. Of course I try to aim for a different path than I expect the AI to research
Would giving gpt to an AI make them research faster or do they just pile up cash and rush/upgrade? I could just select one AI not to take gpt from.

[Nor Me]

Can I enter into the expansionist debate, especially since it was aimed at me anyway? In my experience an Expansionistic civ is far less likely than a non-expansionist to get nothing from a hut but it still happens. The reroll theory would give a higher probability of that if it happens.
Although I heard that difficulty affects hut results, that's harder to prove from experience. It certainly affects suicide galleys.

[badams52]

Nor Me:

Unfortunately, doing a test based on hut results would take many, many trials to even come close to an appropriate answer (at least 1000 I'm thinking to get percentages, and even then, it won't be a certainty). And I don't know anyone who wants to spend that kind of time doing it.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
If you have time, post as many screenshots as you can. Since we have the same playstyle, I'd really to see how somebody else plays the French. The differences would be fascinating (at least for me )

Well , I have several additional screenshots, but they didn't "make the cut" for being intersting or informative enough to make it into the AAR. I also have a quite a few saves if you're interested enough to look at them.

Before you answer though, I should warn you that we don't necessarily share the same playstyle -- I will occasionally play games under my own extreme rules or play games according to a pre-selected plan, but I also am quite happy to play the game as a bloodthirsty agressor exploiting any relative advantage I might have over a neighbor -- I am convinced that war, particularly offensive warfare, is always the best approach in Civ if the desired result is power, score, or simple efficiency. Once the AU 207 map unfolded before me, I sincerely and urgently wished I had decided to play the aggressor, because I think the map lent itself to conquest (even though I also believe that larger maps mean declining power of warfare). So my saves and screenshots represent my approach to this particular game rather than my approach to the game in general.

PM me if you want saves or additional screenshots, and please keep contributing to the strat forum and AU games

Catt

[Catt]

I don't think I posted it earlier: love your AAR vulture

Originally posted by Nor Me
Catt, why did you build the Pyramids?
I built them since I had a high production city (because it was size 5) and I was going to claim the same land by settling however long it took to do so (Up to the 2 chokepoints). But you were in strong competion with Babylon and Germany for land.

I did not build them for their strategic value or for a good and objective Civ-playing reason -- with the approach I had adopted for this game of no offensive war (and a subsequent overly-friendly attitude to the Babylonians) the Pyramids offered little strategic value. I built them solely in pursuit of the "Joan's Grandeur" concept as a prize to be had. If I had been playing the game to win as efficiently as I could, I wouldn't have built them and I woudn't have devoted my second city to building wonders -- I would have archer rushed Babylon, and horseman/swordsman rushed both Germany and the Zulu, and counted on wiping out the Japanese, Americans, and Mongols with knights and cavalry. I would expect, with the alternate approach, to secure a bunch of wonders via leaders and captures. The same (inefficient) reasoning compelled me to build Sun Tzu's -- I was on a "free building maintenance" kick -- even though I wouldn't utiltize the wonder efficiently by blitzing neighbors.

In other words, I built them out of vanity and emotional interest - not for any legitimate strategic interest.

Catt

[Catt]

Originally posted by Nor Me
Can I enter into the expansionist debate, especially since it was aimed at me anyway? In my experience an Expansionistic civ is far less likely than a non-expansionist to get nothing from a hut but it still happens. The reroll theory would give a higher probability of that if it happens.
Although I heard that difficulty affects hut results, that's harder to prove from experience. It certainly affects suicide galleys.

I've never run any tests but have been operating on the assumption that the "re-roll" theory applies. If it doesn't - or if there's any reason to suspect that it doesn't that I've never noticed - I'd appreciate hearing about it.

And now you've gone and peaked my interest with this:

It certainly affects suicide galleys.

Will you expand on this, please?

Catt

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Catt


PM me if you want saves or additional screenshots, and please keep contributing to the strat forum and AU games

Catt

I understand we don't have the same playstyle, but I think that some screenshots about this particular game could be interesting for comparing our two styles with the same civ. After all, AU is also for comparing styles and strategies given a set starting point.

As for contribution to the strat forum and AU games, I think I did enough for AU207, except if somebody wants more info.

I still hope to do something with my 'Ultimate Guide to Strategies on a Huge Map' thread. If nobody puts there his experience from AU207 there, then I would be really

As for AU games, I was the first asking when would AU208 start...