Apolyton University Mod (PTW version)

[Bluefrog]

I like the bombard of Guerillas. ZOC sounds like it would be good, too...would definitely help the AI out.

[Dominae]

ZOC Guerillas would be cool.


Dominae

[BRC]

I like the idea of ZOC.

I think that Communism needs to keep its poprushing, to retain the flavor. Wasn't there a problem with using a specific building?? Can we make one that will be operational only in Communism??

*praying for a communal corruption slider in next patch*
(I know it will never happen, though.)

[Fosse]

ZOC for guerillas would be a nice touch, making them something to really deal with when you encounter outside of cities, instead of march past.

I'm all in favor of gold rushing for communism. Part of the reason AIs can't use communism is that they'll kill off their own size 20 city by rushing infantry units and face massive unhappiness.
Communism still can't rush like a democracy does, because they won't have the same income, so it isn't unbalancing in that respect.

This is one case where preserving the flavor is really hurting this government, the switch should be made.

[Konquest02]

What about hidden nationality guerillas, just as privateers. Maybe give them a 5/6/1 rating, but I think they might be cool. Will the AI be able to manage them (or even build them at all...) is an other question, but I think it's worth at least a debug game...

--Kon--

[Dominae]

Hidden nationality ground troops would break the game: just imagine blocking an enemy's troop movement with your "neutral" guerillas and you'll see my point.


Dominae

[aaglo]

I have no comments on the zoc on guerillas, since I don't have PTW yet. It should be available here on 13th of February.

Oh please, almost 6 months later than the rest of the world... why? There is no localization or anything else...

[nbarclay]

I found zero-range bombardment for guerillas annoying, and I think I just figured out why: it doesn't pass the "Why in the world should these guys have that kind of ability?" test. If spearmen are backed by archers, or pikemen by longbowmen, it seems reasonable that the guys with bows should be able to do some damage as the attackers close in. But guerillas hitting MAs before the MAs get close enough to attack? How? (I suppose one could argue minefields or some such, but that sort of defense wouldn't require the unit that set it up to stay around in order for it to work.)

Giving guerillas a ZOC seems more reasonable. Either you take them out, or they manage some hit-and-run raids taking advantage of the terrain and so forth while you try to pass by them.

Nathan

[alexman]

Nathan, think of the zero-bombard just as you think of the ZOC, but for your unit moving into the guerillas's tile instead of between two adjacent tiles. Just imagine that they are getting their free shot not as the MA is attacking, but as it is moving in position to attack. I don't think it's unrealistic, but even if it is, it enhances gameplay so much that I think we should leave it in anyway.

[Theseus]

I agree... I make sure to have zero-bombard troops in just about all of my stacks now, and it definitely helps the AI on defense.

[BigDork]

Originally posted by Konquest02
What about hidden nationality guerillas, just as privateers. Will the AI be able to manage them (or even build them at all...) is an other question, but I think it's worth at least a debug game...

--Kon--

I've played with this and the AI does use them. They especially use them to grab workers. Also the AI loves to go after the guerillas, kinda like they do with Privateers. The biggest problem I had with them was that they could capture a city for you without going to war. Big time exploit. But Dom is right, it just breaks the game.

BigD

[alexman]

OK, since AU 204 is getting close, it's time for a new release of the mod.

Based on earlier discussions, I will make Koreans be able to capture cannons, and I will add ZOC to guerillas.

In addition, I would like to remove the "explore" command from several units that don't need it: Settlers, Workers, artillery, leaders, tactical nukes. The "E" key is right next to the "W" key, and we don't need to send our settlers and workers exploring by accident.

Also, what do people think about adding a Communism-specific building, called Secret Police (KGB)? It would reduce corruption like a courthouse, produce veteran units (so the AI builds it immediately), cost 40 shields (perhaps less?), and have zero upkeep.

Finally, any ideas on what to do with pop-rushing versus drafting? Disbanding a drafted Mech. Infantry unit produces 27 shields, versus 20 for pop-rushing.

I have a suggestion. Disallow drafting for Infantry and Mech. Infantry, and reduce the cost of guerillas to 80. That would mean that you would get a maximum of 20 shields whether you draft/disband or pop-rush.

It would also mean that drafting when Infantry or Mech. Infantry is available is less effective. This is a good thing, I think.

Comments?

[player1]

Not drafted Infantry? (strange ruling)

No drafted Mech. Inf?
(but at least has some logic)

[Nor Me]

Originally posted by alexman
I have a suggestion. Disallow drafting for Infantry and Mech. Infantry, and reduce the cost of guerillas to 80. That would mean that you would get a maximum of 20 shields whether you draft/disband or pop-rush.

It would also mean that drafting when Infantry or Mech. Infantry is available is less effective. This is a good thing, I think.

Two things:

1) The big advantages of drafting and disbanding are that you can do it outside of Communism and transfer the shields to a different city than the pop loss and unhappiness.

2) The AI drafts heavily for defense. If they're drafting guerillas and I have MAs, the reduction in city size might outweigh the advantage of added defenders. So it would encourage tactics like parking a load of MAs outside a city and waiting for it to fall below 12. Now if I can get GLs onto my rail network...

2 is probably more important than 27/20 shields if you're not going to do it that often. Since pop rushing was fixed for Despotism, it'll never be worth it for Communism.

To help part of 1, you could try forbidding drafting at all for certain goverments. I doubt there's a simple fix.

[Nor Me]

to everything else especially the secret police and explore command