AU 106 Spoilers

[Catt]

Part 1 of 4

I played the standard game, Emperor level, and selected the Persians for the industrious workers and cheap science buildings.

Persian Isolationist

Xerxes began his empire by directing his initial followers to settle on the coast to the southwest of the start location. He intended to construct Persepolis where his citizens could work the rich cattle herds, and establish a second city to the north whose citizens could work the rich wheat fields located there. He also intended that the two cities could “share” the wheat fields when needed, to allow population growth to the north or south as circumstances demanded. Persian scientists were directed to study the mysteries of Ceremonial Burial so as to enable the building of temples. Xerxes is a strong fan of early temples; they provide much needed contentedness to the citizenry, they provide border expansion which allows citizens to work additional (hopefully better) terrain features, and they become cultural powerhouses, ensuring Persia future recognition as a culturally superior (or at least not inferior) empire. At a cost of 60 shields temples were expensive, but Xerxes felt them necessary.

Early Persian exploration indicated that the lands were teaming with cattle and game, and that wheat fields were plentiful. The coastal and sea shores also appeared to be abundant with fish and whales. Xerxes concluded that population growth – and thus the rapid settling of the Persian landmass – would not be challenging. On the other hand, a rapidly growing population also tends to run out of elbow room quickly, and Xerxes saw few available luxuries with which to provide ease and happiness to the masses. Wine was plentiful, but wine alone would not suffice.

Xerxes had been told in a dream that the Persians would occupy in toto their island home and that contact with a wider world and other civilizations would not occur for millennia, except for the occasional meeting of barbarian folk. Believing in his dream, Xerxes planned for the development of the Persian civilization. Since military threats were virtually non-existent, Xerxes knew he could channel the Persian energies into culture and scientific pursuits; but Xerxes also knew that accomplishing too much too early could drive his civilization into a Golden Age, and Xerxes, given the choice, preferred to preserve that opportunity until later in the game when he was able to contact other civilizations.

Xerxes was soon faced with his first strategic decision – how best to promote the scientific efforts of his people? Xerxes, again in a dream, had foreseen a form of government called Republic that would allow his cities to prosper through increased trade and commerce – the spoils of such increased commerce could be devoted to research efforts. But this Republican form of government provided the populace with perhaps a bit too much freedom – if the empire could not provide sufficient luxury items, contentedness-inducing city improvements and entertainment (through spending or the hiring of local entertainers), then the Persian Republic could stagnate and fail to live up to its promise. Xerxes also foresaw a form of government called Monarchy under which Xerxes would be crowned king and, though his people would be less free and therefore enjoy no significant commercial advantages, they would be comforted and controlled by the kings troops stationed in each city. Xerxes also hoped to benefit from a magical wonder called the Hanging Gardens which would provide additional contentedness to his people, but about which it was said only a King (or someone how could become a King if he was so inclined) could build it. Xerxes, after much less thought than was probably prudent, elected to seize the crown and declare Persia a Monarchy as soon as possible – regardless of his ultimate decision to move towards Republic or Monarchy, Xerxes knew he needed to through off the yoke of dictatorial despot as soon as possible in order to inspire his people to greater productivity. Persian scientists were ordered to research towards an understanding of Monarchy.

Daily life proceeded without much great news for centuries as the Persians settled the whole of their land and worked towards becoming a Monarchy. In 825 BC the Venerable Bede compiled his history of the world and proclaimed the Glorious Persians to be the largest nation in the world. But while working hard towards monarchy and with little knowledge of technologies useful in building city improvements or advanced military units, some of Persia’s oldest cities soon began producing nothing but wealth which was then devoted to further scientific research. Although Xerxes was disappointed with this inefficient process, he had made his decision and was proceeding towards his crown. The occasional daredevil smuggler brave enough to test the oceans occasionally brought news of other civilizations. In 1550 BC, Xerxes learned that the English had constructed an immense, bronze harbor statue called the Colossus. Later, in 690 BC, smugglers told of the majestic Pyramids built by the Japanese and, in that same year, the humble Oracle built by the Iroquois.

In 350 BC, Xerxes’ scientists and politicians had perfected their knowledge of the most efficient and appropriate means of governing a sprawling nation as a Monarchy, and following a brief period of anarchy (4 turns) as the old gave way to the new, Xerxes established the Persian crown. In 270 BC, Susa completed the Hanging Gardens. Having reached his goal of becoming the empire’s sovereign, Xerxes instructed his scientists to research technologies that would allow his cities to grow, prosper, and advance. Particular emphasis was placed on Construction, which would allow aqueducts, and Mapmaking, which would allow increased food harvests from the Persian coastlines.

In 110 BC, a Persian Forbidden Palace was built almost directly to the northeast of Persepolis on the eastern coast. A look at the Persian empire as of 70 BC follows:

[Catt]

Part 2 of 4

Not one to leave anything out, Xerxes also desired Literature and the ability to construct his cheap libraries – in other words, Xerxes settled on a mad dash for all ancient age technologies, with an emphasis on “growth helping” improvements to leverage his choice of Monarchy and the larger towns and cities it allowed, and “culture helping” improvements. Unlike many other previous empires Xerxes had governed, Currency fell relatively low on his list of desired technologies as just about all of the Persian commerce income was spent on scientific research. Xerxes also established a garrison of 3 troops in each city as it grew beyond the first few population points – this garrison of 3 seemed to provide just the right amount of security on comfort to each city’s citizens . In 130 AD the English built the Great Library, and just thereafter the Greeks built the Great Wall. By the time the Persians were ready to enter the Middle Ages (indeed well before such time) Xerxes’ people had settled all of the Persian homeland – with no barbarian uprising visible, Xerxes was completely in the dark as to the technological advancement of the other civilizations, except for his science advisors occasional comments as to being “moderately advanced” or “technologically advanced!” Also during this time, smugglers reported that the Chinese had been completely destroyed.

Xerxes knew that his empire must someday adopt a more representative form of government, and in order to do so once again focused on his need for a happy citizenry. Persian scientists mastered the secrets of Monotheism in no time, and continued onward to Theology. Xerxes exhorted his people to push forward, and hoped to build one or both of the Sistine Chapel and JS Bach’s Cathedral. With cathedrals rapidly built in most all Persian cities, they could each grow to size 12 without many happiness concerns. Xerxes encouraged this, but was still able to maintain a large commitment to science while spending almost nothing on entertainment. Upon the discovery of Theology, a Persian city immediately switched production to Sistine Chapel and the Persian scientists sought to unravel the mysteries of Education. With that accomplished, the set their sights on Music Theory, while the Persian cities across the land rapidly constructed universities. Only after having completed Music Theory did Xerxes direct the research of Engineering, Feudalism, and Invention. In 1010 AD, Sistine Chapel was completed in Tarsus; in 1120 AD, Sun Tzu’s Art of War was completed in the French city of Paris, and in 1230 AD JS Bach’s Cathedral was completed in Arbela.

The Persian ability to secure both Sistine Chapel and JS Bach’s Cathedral encouraged Xerxes, and he knew he now provided far more “entertainment value” to his people than was necessary – a switch to a representative government was not only feasible, it was almost an imperative. Xerxes, of course, feared a long period of instability and anarchy should he take off the crown, but he had made the decision to take that chance many centuries before and felt “no time like the present” to make the switch. After completing the necessary research on Engineering and starting the construction of Leonardo’s Workshop, Persian scientists researched Republic and – holding his breath – Xerxes elected to initiate the revolution. With a magical stroke of luck, the Persian populace seemed ready for a revolution, and the brief period of anarchy was as short and uneventful as Xerxes could have hoped for, lasting only three turns. In 1315 AD, the Persian Republic was born. A compilation of certain Persian vital statistics following the switch to Republic appears below.

[Catt]

Part 3 of 4

Xerxes disbanded much of his military forces after assuming the chief executive role of the Persian government. Each city was left with one foot-soldier defender, and a very small force of Persian Immortals was deployed among Persian cities from north to south as a rapid reaction force should another civilization master ocean travel and arrive with hostile intent. Xerxes considered the seas to be Persia’s greatest defensive asset.

Rather than race towards Navigation and the freedom of travel it provided, Xerxes decided to act the true isolationist and focus his empire’s efforts on “building” a scientific, cultural and economic powerhouse. Persian scientists directed their research efforts at modern Banking and Economics. Shortly after the Persian city of Tarsus completed Leonardo’s workshop, Xerxes learned that the Greek city of Athens completed Copernicus’ Observatory. This gave Xerxes a good sense of where the Greeks lay in terms of technological advancement, since it represented the first real wonder “lost” to a more advanced civilization. Xerxes didn’t really consider the wonder lost because he had already resolved not to build it – he wanted a Persian Golden Age following worldwide contact and communication. Perhaps more surprising was the completion of Magellan’s Voyage by the French in 1385 AD. The Persians had not yet researched Astronomy, but the French had managed to not only research it but also to build the world wonder made available by it. Xerxes waited for sight of the first foreign ocean-going vessel.

First contact came in 1415 AD with the sighting of a French caravel off the western Persian shore. Xerxes cautiously made contact with the French, and subsequently traded with Joan in order to secure communications with three other previously unknown civs as well as to acquire knowledge of the world map. A few turns later, Xerxes was able to purchase communications with the three remaining civs from Joan. A histograph in 1415 AD showed Persia with a 200+ point score lead over the Iroquois. A later histograph from 1430 AD (showing all civs) showed Greece in the lead, Egypt in second, and Persia in third. A breakdown of the technology status of each civ follows (Persia at the time was 1 turn from completing Metallurgy):

France: Slightly Ahead – Had Metallurgy, Astronomy & Navigation, but not Banking, Economics or Music Theory
Greece: About Even – Had Metallurgy and Astronomy, but not Economics
Egypt: Just Behind – Had Metallurgy but not Economics
England: Trailing – Persia could trade Chemistry, Economics or Music Theory
Iroquois: Trailing – Persia could trade Education or Gunpowder
Germany: Backwards – Persia could trade Engineering, Chivalry or Theology
Japan: Terminally Backwards – Persia could trade Currency or Republic

A minimap from shortly after full contact follows:

[Catt]

Part 4 of 4

Xerxes easily traded Banking and Economics for the missing Astronomy, Metallurgy & Navigation, world maps, relevant communications, and hefty gold and gpt deals. A few turns after the trades, in 1475 AD, Persia completed its work on Smith’s Trading Company.

Shortly after communications and diplomatic missions were established, Xerxes began trading excess Persian wine for luxury items from all over the world. He tried to space each luxury trade by a few turns at least, just so not all trade deals came up for renewal at the same time. As the Persian empire entered the Industrial Ages, only the French and the Greeks presented any present challenge to Persian economic and production hegemony, although Cleopatra’s Egypt was poised to grow into a superpower. Xerxes took a second unconventional approach in this endeavor by deviating from a somewhat well-worn technology research path. After completing Steam Power and Industrialization (Universal Suffrage completed in 1670 AD), Persian scientists studied Medicine and then Sanitation. Although Xerxes has in the past relegated Sanitation to that bin of technologies of only secondary importance, in present circumstances Xerxes coveted the growth opportunities afforded by modern hospitals – for one, Xerxes had a large surfeit of contentedness and happiness improvements and wonders, ensuring a reasonably happy citizenry even in eventual metropolises (metropolis?), for another, the physical landmass of Persian lands was smallish compared to more sprawling empires like those of Greece and Egypt – these factors combined made an earlier-than-normal approach to hospitals seem prudent. As hospitals were constructed in Persian cities, large numbers of workers that had been conscripted from the cities in order to lay a rail line in all areas of the empire were ordered home, where they rejoined the cities, and Persian metropolises were springing up and growing very rapidly.

Each of Greece and France actually began building the Theory of Evolution a turn or two before Persia had completed its research on the Scientific Method, but Xerxes was unconcerned – his engineers had already started making all appropriate preparations for a quick wonder build (pre-build), and Xerxes was confident that he would succeed in beating all others to the magical Theory. It was particularly magical for the Persians, as it would announce the start of a great Persian Golden Age and allow Persia to vault forward in terms of scientific, economic and productive power. In 1762 AD, shortly after completing research on Replaceable Parts, Xerxes dedicated the magnificent statue depicting the Theory of Evolution and the Persian empire launched its Golden Age. With the benefits of a Golden Age, a metropolis’ production, a factory and a coal plant, Persepolis constructed the Hoover Dam in approximately 12 turns, and all of Persia surged forward in production power. Technologies were researched in 4 or sometimes 5 turns with 100% of Persian commerce devoted to scientific research. Hundreds of extra gold poured into the treasury’s coffers nonetheless. With a small tech lead, Persia was unable to use its excess gold to purchase technologies other than a small purchase of Espionage from someone.

As the Persian march towards Motorized Transportation continued, Xerxes began to rethink his near-term goals. Xerxes had previously been informed in dreams that Elizabeth of the English was a thoroughly untrustworthy leader. At this point in history, in approximately the mid-Industrial Ages, England was a sorry mess, having fought a brutal war of attrition against the Egyptians for many, many years. The Egyptians achieved naval dominance, and fleets of 15+ Egyptian frigates ruthlessly bombarded the English countryside, removing much evidence of civilized improvements from the land. Towards the end of the Egyptian wars, England was also involved in a very short skirmish with the Greeks, but quickly made peace after having lost a large English city. Xerxes, trusting his dreams’ tales that Elizabeth was unfit to govern, had plotted use an invasion force of tanks and infantry to blitzkrieg the English and subdue the entire nation in a few short years. But with a Persian golden age ready to launch, and no real improvements to build for many turns, Xerxes decided that an infantry and cavalry invasion force would be sufficient to seize the English lands – and with them a monopoly of dyes and a source of coal. Investigation of the English nation showed that Elizabeth’s scientists had still not yet discovered riflemen, and that therefore Persian troops were unlikely to face anything other than cavalry and musketmen. An invasion fleet of 6 galleons was rapidly assembled, and a strike force of 15 cavalry, 8 infantry, 2 workers and a lone elite warrior sailed for the English coast.

Xerxes contacted Liz and shared his regrettable view that nothing other than war was possible at this time, and the Persian forces landed on English land. English resistance was almost nonexistent: after landing, Persian forces captured and garrisoned one English town and one English city – several dyes were confiscated. Although Xerxes’ commanders did take some risks in garrisoning captured cities, they calculated that even a successful uprising by the English citizens would only slightly delay the inevitable capture of all English cities, but would not otherwise succeed in changing the ultimate outcome. A third town was taken, and with it an additional supply of rubber. By this time, an additional strike force of approximately 14 cavalry and 6 infantry landed south of London. Upon landing it captured two additional English cities, securing all dyes for Persia and leaving England with only London and Nottingham at the far northern tip of English lands. Both fell on successive turns and England was no more.

Although the English war was over quickly (approximately 8 – 10 turns), the Persian strike forces were slowed somewhat due to the true nature of the operation taking place. While Xerxes certainly did seek control of the dyes and a stable supply of coal, the grander Persian goal was to secure a strong, defensible foothold on the Greek border. Xerxes anticipated future war with Greece, and a defensible beachhead near Greece’s core would radically alter the balance of power. Xerxes did not plan to start a war with Greece – he preferred to play out the scenario with a mostly “builder” style, but he doubted that Alexander would refrain from striking opportunistically at Persian interests. A defensive force of multiple infantry and cavalry were therefore detached from the Persian strike force to serve as border-city garrisons along the southern border with Greece.

A galleon-full of Persian workers was shipped from Persia to New Persia where, with the help of previously transported Persian workers and the few captured English workers, the New Persian countryside was rapidly transformed to a railroaded, improved terrain. Workers were then retired and joined nearby cities. Xerxes was quite pleased with the levels of corruption and waste in New Persia – it was inconsequential enough that New Persian cities built universities, cathedrals and banks before ever bothering with courthouses – Xerxes estimated that an 80-shield and 1 gpt courthouse would increase production by a few shields at most, and since production was already adequate (and the Persian treasury was overflowing with gold), no New Persian cities even bothered building courthouses.

As the Persian golden age ended, most of the cavalry remaining in Persia proper was disbanded in favor of the new-fangled tanks that Persia had recently discovered. Xerxes listened carefully to his military advisors – they were unanimous that a Persian attack on Germany, the Iroquois, or Japan would result in very few Persian losses and blindingly fast conquest – and Xerxes agreed with his advisors, for these nations were hopelessly outclassed in terms of technology and productive power. A Persian assault could indeed take all three empires apart in a matter of only a very short time – certainly short enough that Persian cities would only feel the slightest instance of war weariness. Nonetheless, Xerxes decided to finish the game as peacefully as possible – igniting no wars, joining none, but preparing an adequate defense. One factor in his decision was the exceedingly long period of time other civilizations were taking in making their seemingly very deliberate decisions. Following the English conquest, Xerxes frequently had sufficient time to complete his turn, and then scamper off to the refrigerator for another ale, with perhaps a pit stop at the lavatory as well, only to find that he hadn’t slowed the world’s progress by his actions in the least bit – and this was in times of AI peace! So Xerxes said “No” to aggressive expansion and conquest, and “Yes” to the fastest possible victory (or defeat). Persian scientists were directed to pursue Fission and the UN.

In 1884 AD, the Persian’s completed the UN, and were 5 or so turns away from completing the SETI project. Each of France and Greece was about even with the Persia in terms of technological advancement, the Greeks having completed research on Space Flight but not having researched Fission. Xerxes petitioned the world to be elected UN leader, but frankly wasn’t sure of a successful vote. While the Persians had maintained trading and often Right of Passage relations with many nations, Xerxes had never cast his lot with anyone in a military alliance or a defensive mutual protection pact. He also wasn’t even sure how many candidates would stand, and feared a three-way race among seven civs would be difficult to win. With a sigh of relief, Xerxes was very pleased to see that only he and Alexander were candidates, and with a bigger sigh of relief found that he had managed to earn the mantle of leadership with four votes for Xerxes, two for Alexander, and one abstention. A prolonged space race had been avoided.

[Catt]

Additional Game Notes:

* I’ve never done such a quirky opening research route and wouldn’t do it again (at least not exactly as a complete beeline to Monarchy). I’m too lazy to try and do a comprehensive analysis of Republic versus Monarchy in circumstances such as AU 106’s map, but my gut told me that I could grow my cities very large very quickly if I could control happiness. One way to analyze the choice is to figure that, all else being equal, a Monarchy could have cities with 3 higher population – assuming the 3 additional pop work coastal squares or roaded river tiles, that equates to 6 additional gold, or the equivalent bonus a Republic town of size 6 generates. If coastal or roaded river tiles are unavailable, only 3 additional gold are generated. With plentiful coast squares available, I figured Monarchy to be an advantage only if it would be significantly challenging to grow cities beyond size 6. Under AU 106 at Emperor level, I felt cities above size 6 would be a great deal of trouble until at least cathedrals.

* I employed a moderately dense build pattern, certainly not as dense as possible but also not avoiding overlap. With my unconventional government strategy, I needed to assure at least 12 quality workable tiles, and preferably room for 16 – 18 citizens in the late game. I fit 14 cities on my Persian island.

* I did a fair amount of forest planting and clearing for shields in the hinterlands. I did some, but very little in the aggregate, of build in the core and disband in the hinterlands. Corruption and waste were rarely problematic and with micromanagement of citizen laborers, and rapid growth through the plentiful bonus tiles and worker-pop transfers, I found even the most distant of cities could produce a fair number of shields.

* AI development was interesting. Japan either lost a few fights or was just very unlucky with terrain. They appeared to be crippled early. Egypt was apparently aggressive early (could have also been the early GA compared to China’s) and eliminated the Chinese pretty promptly.

* After reading the other spoilers I am absolutely amazed at how closely my game seems to have followed Sir Ralph’s (despite different strategies). The ending maps are astonishingly close, the victory condition and timing nearly identical, and the scoring nearly identical.

One final note: I’ve seen a number of threads about how the AI won’t build navies and/or refuse to use overwhelming force. The Egyptians fielded a ridiculously powerful wooden fleet and used it to bomb the English into submission. My invasion of England followed the conclusion of the Egyptian-English war by only a few turns, and the formidable Egyptian fleet had not only not cleared the Persian-English channel, but presented navigation challenges in reaching the designated landing zone.

[Catt]

One more screenshot in keeping with the other spoilers - a view of the Persian mainland at the end of the game.

Catt

[nbarclay]

At least in the absence of military needs, Republic is actually a lot better for having big cities than Monarchy is, at least near the core. Each extra citizen in a Republic brings in at least two extra gold (less whatever corruption saps off), but needs only one to keep him from causing riots. So the luxury slider can be used to grow the core to size twelve while outlying cities are left at whatever size corruption leaves them able to support, and the civ makes a profit from doing so. (An alternative is to grow only the capital and similarly wealthy cities to size twelve, leaving the rest a bit smaller.)

In contrast, if I'm calculating correctly, Monarchy would require the use of the luxury slider to go past size six before colosseums on Emperor (one citizen born content, a temple, one lux, and three MPs). And without Republic's gold bonus, the benefit of using the luxury slider is a lot more marginal; if a land tile without a gold bonus is worked, you can even lose financially due to corruption.

One reason building troops in my core and disbanding them in outlying areas was so useful to me was that my northernmost and southernmost clusters of cities were deliberately overcrowded in terms of land tiles available in order to maximize my access to coastal and sea tiles. That left them even less productive than corruption alone could account for. Of course I wouldn't have done it if I'd had better things for my core cities to do, but it seemed more cost-effective than building wealth - and very possibly more potent for science as well since it helped me get courthouses and libraries in place sooner.

Nathan

[Killerdaffy]

Catt,

great AAR!

Interesting to compare the different games and see the exact same thing happening to China (early elimination) and Japan (building an early wonder but then falling behind). Only the extent of the Greek domination over the English is variable, probably because it depends more on the role of the dice in combat. It would be worth switching some of the starting positions on such a map to see how different AIs fare in different places.

Edited: Spelling

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Killerdaffy
Interesting to compare the different games and see the exact same thing happening to China (early elimination) and Japan (building an early wonder but then falling behind.

In my game, Japan took out the Iroquois in the 1100's, so they would have serious potential to become a major power if they weren't sitting on the future site of my new palace . (They have twenty-one cities to my seventeen, and their spacing would allow their cities to get bigger than mine as well if they survive into the industrial age.) But the Egypt-massacres-China thing seems to be a universal constant so far.

I haven't really played any more since my original synopsis, although I have made the decision to mobilize to speed up my horseman production in preparation for a massive upgrade to cavalry. Another piece of my planning is that if all goes well, I'll time my golden age for after I move my palace and own the surrounding area. That way I can use my GA to jumpstart my new, second core. (I'm thinking the palace belongs in southeastern Japan near the coast opposite France so I can eventually make both Japan and France productive in my hands.)

Nathan

[Chemical Ollie]

Evil Egyptians!

Catt, I was planning to have a late game similar to yours and win by diplomacy, but an Egyptian backstabbing act ruined the rest of my game.

It's about 1870 and I'm in deep sh*t. The whole world is in war with me and refuse to talk, my people is rioting and all my bridgeheads on foreign continents have been lost or are under serious pressure from enemy attacks. I am still stuck with using infantry and artillery while at least 3 civs are pounding me with bombers. I have not met any tanks yet, but they are expected any turn.

I was only 5 turns from electronics when the Greeks did a really dirty backstab by sneak-attacking London and breaking an ongoing trade deal where I paid a generous gpt for 2 luxuries. I had to increase the luxury slider to compensate for the lux and maximise gold to upgrade the cannons and riflemen in London. My leader is still idling in my capitol, eager to build Hoover. The upgraded troops did not help and my 5 infantry, 10 cavallery and 10 artillery will fall to a 50+ unit horde on the next turn (only 2 wounded cav left) I will at least disband the artillery to deny it to them. Or why not disband the whole town, with Colossus, Great Library and everthing. I'm allready hated by everone anyway.

My plan for the continued game is to focus totally on invading Greece. The other outposts are important, as one has the Suffrage and one has diamonds, but I can't bring in quick reinforcements before I get flight. If war weariness grows outrageous, I could always change to monarchy.

An interesting question is, what did I do wrong in the early diplomacy, when the whole world was polite with me for trading lux and tech? Why did they backstab me and f*ck up the rest of my game? Why were there no warnings? I have seen the AI turn from annoyed or catious to sneak attack, but never from polite to war.

[Killerdaffy]

Re: Evil Egyptians!

Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre
An interesting question is, what did I do wrong in the early diplomacy, when the whole world was polite with me for trading lux and tech? Why did they backstab me and f*ck up the rest of my game? Why were there no warnings? I have seen the AI turn from annoyed or catious to sneak attack, but never from polite to war.

Oh, they'll do that just for fun when you are getting too strong, have something they urgently want (luxuries, wonders) or seem to be too weak in military terms. 'Gracious' provides some level of protection but even then don't believe the expeditionary force next to your undefended capital will withdraw peacefully on the next turn...

[Catt]

Originally posted by nbarclay
At least in the absence of military needs, Republic is actually a lot better for having big cities than Monarchy is, at least near the core. Each extra citizen in a Republic brings in at least two extra gold (less whatever corruption saps off), but needs only one to keep him from causing riots. So the luxury slider can be used to grow the core to size twelve while outlying cities are left at whatever size corruption leaves them able to support, and the civ makes a profit from doing so.

I guess I don't understand this fully - particularly the "needs only one to keep him from causing riots." Does it take only one gold peice to move one citizen from unhappy to content (or content to happy and therefore off-setting an unhappy citizen?). And how do you deal with the rounding issue of the sliders. At the time I eventually made the switch to Republic, moving the slider to ebven 10% would cost approximately 70 gold per turn - and I wouldn't get a mood improvement in 70 citizens throughout the empire. In a city producing 30 total commerce, with the luxury slider set at 10%, that's 3 gold in entertainment - but I wouldn't see mood improvement in 3 citizens would I (it's never seemed that way to me before, but I haven't every watched terribly closely or studied it)?

I may go back and play with different parts of my game to compare and contrast - but for everyone who beelined to Republic (seemingly everyone ), how big could your core cities grow and at what entertainment slider position was this? And how big could your outlying cities grow without happiness problems?

I probably need to pay more attention to the Luxury Slider thread posted recently.

Catt

[Theseus]

Great AARs!!

Catt, I think I'm most impressed thus far with your game... I think Monarchy may have been the right call here, which almost no one else did.

Olaf, I think you may have simply overextended yourself... to the point where 1) you couldn;t do enough to get attacked AI civs back into good diplo relations, 2) you couldn't build enough to have a happy and productive empire, and 3) as a result, you couldn't keep up in tech, nor build enough military to hold onto your spoils... then you got into a negative spiral, where each loss / weakening tipped the balance in favor of the AI civs feasting on your ragged position. Have no fear though, I'm sure you can find a way to break out.

AI civ performance is so different in these games!! In mine, Japan took over the Iroquois, Greece took over England, Egypt left China alone, and France succesfully grabbed all three of the north to south islands. France has remained neck and neck with me for tech, as did Japan, and Greece was right up there until I ruined Alex' day.

My progress yesterday: Finished punishing the Greeks for now, having taking all the cities down to Troy (the fur patch), and razed the two in between there and Athens, and have Infantry in forts blocking the 3 tile chokepint to the northeast. The last battles produced my first GL, which I used for an Army... I'm on top of all the GWs I want with pre-builds, and I still want to take the other half of Greece (almost 60 elite Cavs remaining).

Nailed ToE and Hoover, and am about to enter the industrial corridor with a 2 tech lead over France. Hoover triggered my GA, and most core cities are building factories and hospitals.

Having 7 luxuries concurrent with the GA is great... the captured Greek cities are doing very well; btw, fast Library builds are amazing for culture. I'm running at 1.8.1, techs in 4-6 turns, and still pulling in 500-700 gpt. I'm pulling my late industrial trick: selling to the rich and gifting to the poor (which means at some point gifting to almost everyone)... all civs except Greece are either polite or gracious (Japan!!). In this case, I'll use it to pull a diplowin, I think.

In my game, Japan has the fleet... I got the IA up, and was impressed to see that they have 25 Frigates!!

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Catt


I guess I don't understand this fully - particularly the "needs only one to keep him from causing riots." Does it take only one gold peice to move one citizen from unhappy to content (or content to happy and therefore off-setting an unhappy citizen?). And how do you deal with the rounding issue of the sliders. At the time I eventually made the switch to Republic, moving the slider to ebven 10% would cost approximately 70 gold per turn - and I wouldn't get a mood improvement in 70 citizens throughout the empire. In a city producing 30 total commerce, with the luxury slider set at 10%, that's 3 gold in entertainment - but I wouldn't see mood improvement in 3 citizens would I (it's never seemed that way to me before, but I haven't every watched terribly closely or studied it)?

I've only really looked closely in the early game before marketplaces, but there, it's definitely one gold for one unhappy->content or content->happy. I can't say for sure whether or not the gold gets bled off before marketplaces and banks have a chance to provide their multiplicative effect, though. I need to check when I get a chance. (Still, losing a multiplicative effect on gold that wouldn't exist at all under Monarchy isn't exactly a devastating prospect.)

When I switched to Republic, my capital was able to go to size twelve with the happiness slider at 30%, and I'm pretty sure several other cities did as well even before I built coliseums. (The fact that at that size, my cities were invariably working a few coast, river, and/or wine tiles helped.) Outlying areas stayed smaller, but even the worst of them was able to get to size six if I worked enough coastal tiles.

Nathan

[Theseus]

As a republic, I got pretty much all of my towns / cities to their max size fairly easily... the cost however, was that I didn;t really have much WLTKD until I started kicking medieval age butt. If I remember, at 10-30% luxury, with colosseums, cathedrals, and marketplaces (in that order, as soon as available):

Towns: 2 happy, 3 content, 1 unhappy
Cities: 4 happy, 6 content, 2 unhappy

I also definitely had money troubles, but that was my own fault for building such as massive standing military under Republic, and possibly from the later than normal marketplaces.