The Altera Centauri collection has been brought up to date by Darsnan. It comprises every decent scenario he's been able to find anywhere on the web, going back over 20 years.
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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
I forgot to attach a map. Here's the final one. Not very impressive, such a builder game map, right? No invasions, no big conquest. But it was enough for a comfortable win. And believe me, I had fun in the game.
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
In the standard game, the AIs build ships eagerly. Not here. Far from a few galleys, I didn't see a single AI vessel.
Sir Ralph - I didn't have a whole lot of time, so I played an OCC game using the AU Mod on Regent. I will probably post my report tonight. In my game, I saw a few galleys but that was it. I do know that others built at least a few ships, as I watched (from a distance) several small invasions of my home continent by those from the east. Still, I saw a lot fewer AI naval forces than I would have expected on this map.
I saw some naval action... Persia against Greece, and India against me. More lightweight than usual, though. Overall, it was a non-miliary game though (other than my shenanigans). I got the sense the AI civs were spending every dime on research.
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
I didn’t have a lot of free time to play the game as a straight-forward game, and eventually decided that I wouldn’t be able to play it within a reasonable time period, so I plunged in and read the spoilers thread – only then, after reading alexman’s posts, did I think to play an OCC, or One City Challenge. An OCC is a game in which the player is limited to building only one city – the precise rules vary from player to player, it seems, and the rules on whether culture flips may be accepted, what to do with them, etc. are left up to the player. The first time I played a Civ 3 OCC (I have never played Civ 2 where the OCC challenge seems to have been born) I played under very strict rules – I didn’t even allow any units to leave my city radius – no goody huts, no colonies, no exploration, and no offensive military operations. I later learned that these were not widely employed rules and so played what I think is a more conventional OCC in AU 105.
I played the OCC on Regent, using the AU Mod bic, with obvious foreknowledge of many aspects of the game from reading the spoilers (good knowledge of the map and competing civs, foreknowledge of the availability of the Iron Works in the start position, and perhaps most importantly, the knowledge that in others’ game that the AIs built the Colossus early – I built the Colossus earlier than I otherwise would have with this advanced knowledge). My strategy was three-fold – a victory by culture, diplomacy, or spaceship – whichever I could get to first – this meant lots of wonders, early culture improvements, and no broken deals to sully my reputation. Some of this spoiler will seem laboriously commented on – I want to make sure that less-experienced players will understand some of the reasons behind my decision-making (to see where I went wrong and where I went right) and erred on the side of providing more information rather than less.
I built Thebes in the start position and my worker built a mine to the northwest, moved across the river north and irrigated and then roaded the cow tile. I then moved back to the south to road my previously mined tile before heading southwest to road and mine a bonus grassland along the Nile. Science was enjoying 90% of my income and was devoted to Bronze Working – the initial research time would be 18 turns. My initial city build order was warrior, warrior, Colossus (employing a barracks as a pre-build while I finished researching Bronze Working), temple, and spearman. One warrior remained in Thebes as a military policeman and defender, the other moved south and east.
By 3300 BC I could see the borders of Rome, and I soon made contact with Caesar. In 3200 BC I made my first trade, giving Caesar Masonry and Ceremonial Burial for Alphabet, 10 gold, and Bronze Working (I only had 1 turn to go on this). I intended to try and secure both the Great Lighthouse and the Great Library, so Alphabet was what I was really after. In 1870 BC, Caesar unceremoniously demanded the knowledge of Writing from me. I refused, believing that I could both hold off a defeat and maybe even inflict a little pain if I had to. Caesar was bluffing, but his little gambit and my stiff spine moved his attitude from Polite to Cautious.
I wasn’t able to secure a RoP with Rome until after the discovery of Writing (which allows embassies which in turn allow diplomatic agreements like rights of passage), and not wanting to unduly anger my southern neighbor, I didn’t try to slip by Rome to reach Greece. I eventually did secure a RoP and soon thereafter made contact with Alexander. Soon, I completed my research on Literature, quickly built a library, and started the Great Library. After researching Map Making, I set my research sights on Monarchy – I needed to get out from under the thumb of the Despotism tile penalty as soon as possible.
Even though I was playing a “spoiled” game (with my advance knowledge) and was also playing an OCC versus a standard game, I hoped to earn a gold star by triggering my Golden Age with an Iron Works in place – this would almost certainly require a Golden Age triggered by wonders since it would be tough to ensure an Egyptian UU win after Steam Power. Because I intended to win via culture if possible, and in any event because I coveted the numerous “religious” wonders such as the Colossus, the Oracle, Sistine Chapel and JS Bach’s, all of which generate a good amount of culture, I knew I couldn’t build an “industrious” wonder until after Steam Power – so I had to avoid the Pyramids, the Hanging Gardens and the Great Wall. I succeeded in building both the Colossus, and the Great Library, I missed the Great Lighthouse by 2 turns, and lost the Oracle to a wonder cascade upon my completion of the Great Library. Rome built both the Great Wall and the Great Lighthouse, Tenochtitlan (Aztecs) built the Oracle and the Hanging Gardens. Kanadseagea (Iroquois) built the Pyramids.
In 430 BC, the Roman town of Antium, to Thebes’ southeast, overthrew their oppressors and pledged allegiance to Cleopatra. Not quite sure what to do in this OCC game, I flirted with accepting the town and immediately abandoning the city (if only to deny it to Rome), I instead resolved that the Egyptians would rebuff all rebels seeking to join our city-state.
In pursuing a possible culture victory, I felt it important to get the fairly cheap but culturally powerful buildings like temple and library up as early as possible so as to secure as much benefit from the 1,000 year culture-doubling effect as possible. Thebes, between its wonder-building, built a temple in 2,230 BC and a library in 1,500 BC. At the end of the game (in the 1900s), both the temple and the library had each produced more total culture than every other improvement (including 11 great wonders) other than the Great Library, the Sistine Chapel, and, just barely, the Colossus. Early culture is very powerful, and you don’t have to build wonders to build a powerful cultural base.
Even though I lost the race for the Great Lighthouse to Rome, I managed to secure first passage to the other civs via a sea voyage off the western coast of Roman / Grecian lands. I got lucky (couldn’t remember the map well enough from the spoilers) and spotted a short (but risky) passage on my first try, even though I lost the galley looking for passage. A second galley also sank before reaching landfall, but the third galley made it safely to the land of the Iroquois. A fourth galley anchored near the crossing point, watching for Roman galleys that might make contact (and thereby destroy the value of my newfound asset – contact with the eastern continent). As the only civilization with contact with the other 7 civs, my research costs should theoretically be lower than all others’ – however, the combination of my possession of the Great Library and my willingness to focus a decent percentage of my income on science meant that I often had the tech lead. I didn’t want to amass a large treasury of gold (and thereby paint a large bulls-eye on Thebes for my continent-mates), but I also wanted to benefit from the “free ride” offered by the Great Library. I compromised, racing to Monarchy, getting out of Despotism, and setting science somewhat low until the last of the ancient age techs had been secured – I then ratcheted up research again, and set my course for securing both Leo’s Workshop and Sistine. I settled on Leo’s because I intended to upgrade my defenders at each opportunity, and I intended to have more defenders than offensive units. I also expected to\hat I would risk losing Sistine to someone else if I tried to get Sun Tzu’s, Leo’s and Sistine – especially with 2 scientific civs in the game (and therefore 2 civs getting Monotheism for free, putting them within striking distance of Theology and Sistine). Finally, I planned on building a barracks when needed for new units or upgrades, and then selling the barracks to avoid the one gold-per-turn upkeep. I decided that Sun Tzu’s would be a bluebird, but not a wonder I would go after.
In 300 AD, some 6 turns away from Theology, Alexander demanded “Contact with the Aztecs.” When I refused his demands, Alexander declared war. I wasn’t terribly worried about Alexander: (1) I felt that I had sufficient defenders to secure the high ground around Thebes and Thebes itself; and (2) I intended to bribe Caesar into a military alliance against Greece, and then let Roman Legionaries do all the fighting, which would also make my territory very difficult and time consuming for Alexander’s troops to reach. I was immediately able to bring Caesar into the war on my side, but actually had a few qualms about doing so – I could see from the diplomatic trading screen that Rome’s supply of iron had already depleted. I hoped that Caesar had a deep bench of Legionaries and/or worried that I would have to trade my sole source of iron to keep Caesar in fighting form.
Below is Alexander’s declaration of war in 300 AD, which gives a good look at the world. BTW, I divined that the Aztecs and the Iroquois engaged in a fair amount of early war – the Iroquois looked neatly trimmed, and there was no trace of Salamanca (the expected capitol of the Iroquois).
In 410 AD, while still at war with the Greeks, Hiawatha demanded contact with the Greeks from me. Given that Hiawatha couldn’t even transport any troops to my continent or establish an alliance with any civ on my continent, I declined to give in to blackmail. Hiawatha was bluffing.
In 460 AD, Ravenna, a Roman town to the northwest of Thebes, overthrew their oppressors and pledged allegiance to Cleopatra. Again we declined the foreigners.
In 570 AD, the Aztecs demanded contact with the Greeks from me. As with Hiawatha, I declined Montezuma’s obnoxious request. Montezuma declared war even though the method by which he might deliver forces to my shores remained a mystery.
Around this time, Caesar, having lost a gem city on his southern frontier, made peace with Alexander. When a stack of 6 Greek swordsmen took up positions in the mountains south of Thebes, I decided that discretion was the better part of valor and made peace by paying a small tribute in gold. Rome still had not secured an alternate source of iron, and had still not used the Great Lighthouse to establish contact with the other great continents. Also sometime around this time (before the war was over) I was able to establish a trade of furs for incense, a RoP and gold to Xerxes, and with a second luxury, and Sistine up and running a switch to Republic was in order.
In 960 AD, the (now) city of Ravenna again sought to join the Egyptian empire after having been rebuffed a half millennium ago. Once again Cleopatra declined to accept a rebellious province.
Sometime around 1000 AD, upon the discovery and diffusion of Astronomy among several civs, I sold contact and world maps to all 7 other civs, moving from civ to civ according to whom could provide the greatest spoils – I did however avoid seeking exorbitant gold-per-turn deals as I wanted no ready incentive to a declaration of war.
In 1290 AD, enticed no doubt by a treasury of 1000+ gold and a tech lead, treacherous Greek units betrayed the Egyptian trust and abused an existing RoP to launch an assault on Thebes. Egyptian diplomacy immediately switched into high gear with the following results:
The dastardly Aztecs, after having entered into and then broken (by making peace) an alliance against Greece, demanded furs from Egypt in 1385 AD – upon refusal, the Aztecs declared war. This, in my mind, was a tremendous betrayal, and marked Montezuma as an entirely untrustworthy leader for the duration of the game. I was able to secure an alliance against Montezuma from each of Abraham and Hiawatha – but I worried that such an alliance would merely weaken the Americans and Iroquois since the Aztecs seemed to hold a commanding position on their continent.
I made peace with Alexander on turn 20 of my alliances (after terminating all alliances first). Nonetheless, Alexander demanded furs form me in 1495 AD – just as Montezuma had done. Given that Caesar had suffered greatly from the earlier war and I therefore couldn’t count on the Romans for help, I gave in to Alexander and supplied the Greeks with furs for 20 turns.
The world continued to spin around the sun’s axis, and war eventually turned to peace. Montezuma again demanded tribute – this time 100 gold in 1690 AD – I gave it to the Aztecs rather than risk war. I was only 7 turns from Replaceable Parts (Infantry and Artillery) at which point I would accede to no more demands.
In 1792 AD, Montezuma once again made demands on the Egyptians – demanding the mysteries of Sanitation. Upon the righteous Egyptian refusal, the Aztecs declared war. Cleopatra’s scientists had at this point already discovered the mysteries of Scientific Method and built the Theory of Evolution (generating the discoveries of Atomic Theory and Electronics). But given that Egypt had not yet researched Sanitation at the time of the discovery of Electronics, Cleopatra ordered the citizens of Thebes to delay starting the Hoover Dam (knowing it would trigger an Egyptian Golden Age) until the city grew beyond 12 citizens (towards 21 citizens). In 1826 AD, Greece once again demanded tribute – this time, the secrets of Electronics. I declined (relying on my infantry and artillery fortified in forts on the high ground around Thebes). For once, Alexander was bluffing, and he slunk away with his tail between his legs.
In 1842 AD Thebes completed its work on the Hoover Dam. This Great Wonder triggered a Golden Age for the Egyptian peoples. Thebes, with a population of almost 1,400,000 people (size 16), immediately began producing 210 shields per turn – had Thebes already built the Military Academy (instead of preserving it as a modest pre-build), the city could produce an army every two turns during the GA. Just for fun, Cleopatra put her empire into war-time mobilization (on a reload, to see the result), and found that Thebes could produce 259 shields per turn.
In the past, in a previous life (in an earlier game ), Cleopatra had enjoyed a trade deal of 1 gold for a supply of oil. She concluded that this fabulous deal was available because she had no practical use for the oil (she hadn’t discovered Combustion at the time). In this game, with only one city, Cleo was able to trade for oil on very favorable rates – while researching Fission, she was able to trade 9 gold-per-turn to Gandhi for a steady supply of Oil – Cleo cautiously concluded that the opposing civilizations valued strategic resources according to the production power of the human civ – how many units, of what power, could the human build during the 20 turns of a trade deal?
After buying Fission from the Greeks for 1500 gold (having researched 10 or 12 turns out of 26 total), Thebes was able to build the United Nations in 1926 AD. Cleopatra immediately called for a vote to elect a General Secretary of the UN – she expected that she, Alexander and Montezuma would be nominated as candidates, and hoped to win by default based on the repeated bad behavior of the two superpowers. Unfortunately, the first polling was inconclusive, generating 3 votes for Cleopatra, 2 votes for Alexander, and 1 vote for Montezuma. Alexander and Montezuma voted for themselves as expected, but Gandhi, despite a long an honorable relationship with Cleopatra decided to vote for Alexander, his then-current ally (MPP). Ah well, a cultural victory was just around the corner, and Cleopatra had been patient all game.
Unbelievably, in 1940 AD, Montezuma returned to his offensive manner, and demanded 23 gold from the Egyptians. Upon being rebuffed, he declared war. Only a few turns later in 1940 AD, Greece, a turn or two after striking a luxury deal with the Egyptians, signed a military alliance with the Aztecs, and declared war against the Egyptians. It was a true return to Alexander’s despicable roots – breaching agreements at the drop of a hat. And Cleopatra suspected that it was because Alexander knew he was lost – his warmongering days had come back to haunt him, and his only hope was to destroy Thebes. Unfortunately for him, it was far too late. The Egyptians would achieve a cultural victory in 1950 AD, and expected an additional UN vote prior to that time. In 1948 AD a second vote of the UN was held – Gandhi recognized that while Greece might be a powerful nation, Alexander himself was a megalomaniac seeking only to dominate the world. Gandhi switched the vote of the Indians and Cleopatra was elected with 4 votes.
At the end of the game, Thebes had built 11 great wonders: Colossus, Great Library, Leonardo’s Workshop, Sistine Chapel, Copernicus’ Observatory, Newton’s University, Universal Suffrage, Theory of Evolution, Hoover Dam, United Nations and SETI Program, and clearly was the greatest city in the world.
The screenshot below is taken from 1940 AD when Greece betrayed the Egyptians for the last time. It gives a good sense of the Egyptian fortifications against foreign aggressors.
I've never tried OCC, I don't think I have the patience for it. Is there an OCC strategy thread?
Anyway back on topic.
Playing Emperor and I get to gunpower. Of course I don't have access to saltpeter so I did something I've never done before. I gave the totally broke American's a bunch of tech's so they would have knowledge of their saltpeter. My best friends were more than happy to trade that resource to me. (I thought it would be nice since the Greeks keep attacking me). I've never done this to get a resource before, does any have an even better story regarding this strategy?
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Hello everyone. Glad to see there is still some kind of monthly game on Apolyton.
I like the AU mod. Most of the changes seem like good ones, while overall play is basically the same.
My game is on Emperor level. The great starting position allows me to make short work of the Romans with an early Swordsmen attack (1200 B.C.). Next is Persia and a Golden Age. The Golden Age makes the war much easier. Finally is Greece and the manifest destiny of ruling the Hemisphere. Persia remains on the one-tile island.
Eventually India meets me. The other continent is higher tech. I ally with the Americans and am now in the end game. Aztecs and Indians have lots of troops. I am to Infantry, but need bombers or tanks to really press the offensive. This end game is a bit tedious. The Aztecs snuck in and took one of my cities. Annoying, but of little importance. Once bombers show up, the Aztecs will pay.
- Bill
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
More on the AU mod: the 8-10-1 Infantry makes attacking easier than the standard 6 attack value. I am able to storm the Aztec capital using a human wave attack. I surround the capital with my troops. The Aztecs burn a lot of units attempting to open a road to the capital. My superior production allows wave after wave of fresh troops to overwhelm the defenders in a bitter war of attrition.
In the standard game, it is unlikely my 25 or so infantry could have taken the well defended capital, with only 2 artillery. Bombers or tanks would have been needed.
One more turn until Flight and then my soldiers will have an easier time.
About what I learned, for Egypt is a good idea to hold off on War Chariots and the Golden Age until the second war. The exception may be on certain Diety level maps, when the first war may not be be won without this, or if there is no iron.
- Bill
3005 point SS victory in 1790 on Emperor. I was really suprised that I won this one. I was behind in tech and had to buy Ur and Al everytime I want to build a part.
I'm still having problems riding myself of building tendencies. I keep falling off the offense and building when I should keep attacking. I ended up being the same size as Greece and all of our wars ended in stalemates. It seems like everytime I try to build an attack army they are obsolete before I get to use them.
Back to reading the forums for some more tips on the post anceint era.
Ok, coming back from some time off the game and 'Poly I decided to go for AU 105, Mod version, to come back.
This post will be a bit long, but I made a step by step AAR while playing and don't want to re-write everything.
4000BC: I decided to play Monarch, mostly for comparison purposes even though I normally tend to play Emperor. It shouldn't change strategy too much. The starting spot is sweet (having seen the environment in the tips & hints thread) and I'll build Theben right there. Analysis of the opponents and conditions for the game leads me to research Pottery (it's fast, only 14 turns @100%): I'll meet Greeks and Romans soon enough and I'll trade Warrior Code and Bronce Working from them. I'll build just one or two warriors right now, since there is effectively only one direction to go to.
3500BC: Shock! The Romans are *close*!
3350BC: The Romans are too close for comfort and they are blocking my way: They'll have to go, and preferably before they get Iron...
2950BC: I'll take a risk: Rome is only guarded by a warrior, so I attack Rome with only one archer (regular) in place, with another on the way. I don't like it but they developed Bronce Working 2 turns ago and oonce they have a spearman it will just be more difficult. - Shouldn't have done that. They had an archer for defence and killed mine. That was unprofessional.
2750BC: I meet the Greeks. They don't know the Romans, yet. I also got lucky and made my second archer into an Elite on the Roman expeditionary force.
2710BC: Developed the weel. Aargh! The Romans also happen to sit on the only horses in sight! I knew they had to go.
2430BC: I don't believe it! The "Lucky Bastards" generated a GL in their first fight as Elites!!! But what now? The FP is not yet available, the Pyramids (my usual choice) would trigger an immediate GA and the Colossus I can build without Ramses' help. An army it is, I guess.
No invasions, no big conquest. But it was enough for a comfortable win. And believe me, I had fun in the game.
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