Mini Tourney IV - Babylon and On

[Velociryx]

No irrigation made things pretty tough on us, primarily in terms of limiting the total size of our economy, by putting firm brakes on our total growth. With only ten cities, all of them hobbled at some point by limits to growth, our economy stayed small, while everybody else's kept getting bigger. That, coupled with my insistance to research all our own techs, ensured that we'd be sailing into the modern age last, and with the smallest economy...which is, as I understood our mtiii discussions, part of the coolio challenge everybody was looking for....let the AI have plenty of time to build up and such.

The good thing though, is that everybody will be able to terraform "their way"....since we've only recently gained the ability to irrigate, not much has been done yet (only where the rails ran through...I irrigated as I built the rail line).

The only thing I can imagine that'd be worse than an iceberg start would be a desert start, with no flood plains. UGH....But yes, Aeson has given us a one of a kind game....that was awesome!

And speaking of one of a kind games....your Game of Ultimate Power is....wow...what can I say?! I don't believe I've ever gotten my economy quite so large! That was heinous! And TWELVE leaders! Sheesh!

One question for you...how do you go about keeping your elites who have already spawned GL's separated from your elites who have not? Or, do you bother separating them at all? I'm searching for a quick, convenient way to do just that, but haven't stumbled across anything yet.

A MOST impressive, crushingly dominating game! And aptly named, too!

-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

Vel,

The first elite + leader unit went straight into my archer army. The next couple were horsies, and they were simply fortified behind the lines until I could upgrade them to Riders. A swordsman generated one... and I honored him by disbanding him for shields, heh. Riders that generated GLs became Cavs eventually and Cavs got disbanded for shields.

Basically, the method of separation is to immediately fortify the unit. Then, proceed with the attack, take the enemy town, and move the elite + leader in and re-fortify it. There it stays until upgrading.

Still, I managed to miss a Cavalry elite + leader toward the end. I just got careless.

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

Very cool....thank ya! And, if this game turns out to be a fairly popular one, I've got some other ideas in my head...more on that later tho, everybody may hate it....

-=Vel=-

[DaveV]

Keeping the AI competitive

No offense, Vel, but I think you missed one more ingredient that could have made this scenario more interesting: removing all coal from the map.

Digression: I think what most hard-core players enjoy most in a 4x game is that period where the game is "in the balance". The usual arc in a game against the AI is that the human starts out way behind due to AI production advantages, claws his way back into the game, then gains an advantage and mops up. The latter stage, when the game outcome is no longer in doubt but the computer doesn't recognize that the human has won, is when I tend to abandon my games. I don't find much fun in running up a huge score, or slaughtering outdated defenders with the latest super-unit. No, it's the mid-game stage, where your empire's fate hangs on your decisions, when the game is at its peak.

A common theme in a lot of posts I've read is that the turning point of a lot of games (the transition from the mid-game to the end-game) comes right at the time of the discovery of railroad. The human's hordes of workers quickly lay tracks to provide instant movement across the empire, and to boost production significantly. Who cares if the AI is attacking with a hundred infantry if you can teleport your stack of artillery to the point of attack and decimate them with bombardment? Take away the railroad and you suddenly have to make some hard decisions about allocation of forces.

Removing coal wouldn't take away any units, and the only building it would eliminate is the iron works. Granted, it would slow down the endgame, but I contend that that wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Velociryx]

Hmmm...an excellent point, Dave! In my defense though, I didn't modify the map at all with the editor....I just scouted the area in advance to see how big the landmass was, and make sure we were alone!

I would say that on this particular map though, the presence of a rail network will not play as large a role as they might otherwise, for a couple of reasons:

First, it's a 'pelago map. We're alone on our island, and if we wanna get anywhere, we're going to need a navy to transport our stuff (which is kinna cool in this game...navy will play a significant role! ).

I totally agree with you where defense of the homeland is concerned. Essentially, I could leave every city I have undefended, keep my whole defensive army in a single stack on the rail line, and simply move where the threats are. No real strategy there. But, the clock is ticking. Already it's 1570AD, and we have no army with which to launch an attack. Domination/Conquest is the only way to win, so there won't be time to get fancy with hordes of slave labor (and we only have ten workers in Babylon).

Second, and in this case, I'm not sure if it'll make it easier on us or harder, but again, being a 'pelago map, it seems that we might be able to kill off civs via "death by a thousand cuts" (take an island, sue for peace...they're weaker, we're stronger). Repeat, nibbling away at them constantly. And, because they are so spread out, they'll likely be downright horrible at projecting their power and protecting their fringe cities....the homelands will be a different matter of course, but then, the homelands are probably railed, meaning they can be conquered quickly.....hmmm....don't know. If I was going to do it again, I might go into the editor after all and tweak it...that sounds like it'd be an interesting modification....

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Random edit: In looking back over an earlier post, I said that I left the map largely in its pristine form....the one significant modification I DID make was to seed the southern reaches of the kingdom (the tundra section) with forest....at least it's producing a bit of something now!)

-=Vel=-

[Prince]

Emperor? No thanks. I'll stick to regent

[Chemical Ollie]

Aaarrgghhh! This is normally the time when I decide a game is lost and quit to start a new one, alternatively play on and lose by space race. I am still in the late stage of minitour3, then I will travel abroad next week, so I think I jump on this one. Nice initiative though, Vel. Seems like a real challenge!

[nbarclay]

I'm not sure when I might be in a mood to tackle this one. Normally, the whole goal of my early game is to AVOID getting in the kind of position Vel stuck us in here. I do know that since I'm running the July tourney, I need to make that my first priority so I don't get excluded from my own spoilers thread. After that, I'll have to choose between this, the CivFanatics GOTM (which, on a large map if I recall correctly, may take a bit longer than the average tourney), and whatever else comes up in the meantime.

Nathan

[punkbass2000]

Damn, these things are coming out way faster than I can play'em .

[DeepO]

*bump*

I lost this thread, took me a while to find it again. I'll give it a try...
DeepO

[Txurce]

The ace in the hole for the Babs in this game are the settings. If the AI has to win via domination, Babylon can take its sweet time building its war machine. Its biggest enemy is probably the clock, but 1570 should be more than long enough.

Vel, this is an excellent way to generate a WW3 situation. Thanks for putting in the effort to get it there.

[Velociryx]

You're welcome bud! I enjoyed getting it to that point....some interesting self-imposed restrictions led to the current situation....I'm diggin' it, but currently a bit distracted from finishing this game out....something about a Civ3 Candle'Bre mod....

-=Vel=-

[jshelr]

sorry

[DeepO]

erm, jshelr, wrong thread: this should be in the spoiler/strat thread....

DeepO