Training Succession Game 201

[Modo44]

Sure, I'd go with a Granary too, but in this game, it isn't an option yet... Considering what's available here, Barracks goes before Temple almost every time (Cultural victory being the exception).

[punkbass2000]

Yeah, what Modo said. As for no Pottery, that was a bit of an oversight on my part, but I think we'll be able to trade fo it soon. We should have a couple neighbours and they will research/pop Pottery fairly quickly.

Yes, the capital virtually always deserves a Granary (especially with a river), but this will never be very good pump and thus it doesn't need one immediately. Once the Barracks is up I would build two settlers and then workers (out of pop-consuming units. Intersperse Warriors [not to mention the Granary, whenever the tech comes along] whenever wanted/needed). The two settlers can take advantage of the Wines for bonus food and build granaries early. Two pumps plus the capital is plenty of granaries for this early on with a small map.

EDIT: As for Warrior Code, I will definitely wait to trade; I won't want more than a few Bowmen for barbs and this is not an 'Archer Rush' situation, IMO.

As for why Barracks over Temple, well, a Temple is pretty well useless, really. My capital already produces culture and there's no real reason to build one otherwise at this point. I have already designated my capital as the military camp, as per above, as it will be high pop but low actual fpt and also high shield, thus better serving as a military pump. It will be able to reach the magical '10spt' pretty soon after it's done with the two settlers.

EDIT EDIT: AS for the early Worker, you should try it some time, I think you'll come to appreciate it . How many shields would have been produced at a higher size right now without the extra Worker? Perhaps a bit more than have been produced thus far, but the gap will soon close and the effects of the extra Worker will multiply and greatly outweigh the one pop loss, especially as Babylon is the military camp.

[dmd175]

Sid, Santa, or somebody smiles down

Originally posted by punkbass2000
IF you could do one round this week

I will be able to play this today! Leaving work hours early. Report forthcoming after catching up with thread and game progress so far.

[dmd175]

3000 BC (end of turn): Slider lux left at 10%. Interesting question you guys have discussed about temple v. granary v. barracks. In this situation if it were me (pre TSG's) I would have certainly built the temple. I'm a builder after all and a tiny culture investment early pays big big dividends (much fun to watch that early culture graph on F8 ), not to mention the happiness. I'll leave at barracks however given what was discussed on thread.

2950 BC: Policeman to Babylon. Lux to 0 (saves 1 gpt). Clark NW, Lewis E.

2900 BC: Police fortify. Clark N, Lewis SE.
Workers finish road. They can only mine that spot. Might be nice to get some irrigation for food and hill mined for shield. Also, could start roading to potential new city sites, which looking around quickly I like Babylon 447 which would be on river, help get wines, and clear the barb camp. OTOH, Bab 477 might be better b/c there is more room for a second city on the Euphrates river farther to the NW. Worker1 W of Babylon, Worker2 SW of Babylon.

2850 BC: Both workers to road. Clark N, Lewis SE. Clark finds what looks like more territory N though I thought the land mass would end on a peninsula.

2800 BC: Babylonian workers complete a new facility for training of glorious armies! Our happy MA fires up the citizens and readies to mobilize and spread our culture and glory. These settlers will leave the homeland in...three centuries (well, maybe they were not that fired up as our MA reported).

Clark N, Lewis SE. Lewis spots a strange weed which SA identifies as sugar.

2750 BC: Clark N, Lewis S. Clark now spots strange weeds, which the SA says can be used to spice up our bland cuisine.

2710 BC: Lewis spots another vile member of the Hurrian race running NW, now located 44 from his original position. Lewis sends smoke signal to Babylon saying there might be a camp nearby. He investigates by moving SW but finds nothing. Alone, Lewis philosophizes on the NW/SE bug and thinks the camp might be farther SE, and that he might have triggered the barb during his travels over the last half millenia.

Clark N, still mired in jungle. Worker1 NE to road, Worker2 N to hill.

2670 BC: Hurrian fortifies. Clark NW and finds more spice. Workers road.

2630 BC: Dastardly Hurrian unfortifies and moves E. Lewis moves east too, but instead of a barb camp he finds spice. Babylonian Epicurean club thereby founded (meets every 1st Tuesday at the barracks).

2590 BC: Hurrian follows Lewis SE. Lewis E. Clark N and finds banana shangri-la, the mythical garden where apolyton gods of lore spent idle time. Will our sons and daughters have the ability and fortune to found a thriving metropolis on the site of this garden?

[dmd175]

2550 BC: Lewis NE (more sugar sighted), Clark N. Babylonian settlers ready, and head off to Baby 477. Babylon is tempted to build a temple (10 turns only) but opts for warrior to explore the Great Southern void. Worker 1 irrigates, b/c Babylon is stuck at 10 turns till growth.

So ends my ten turns of glory.

PB, don't worry, we knew about space race screen. I don't generally if ever use it though. Plus you can always get similar info via F11, which is easier to get to than F10 and also which I think no one views as exploit.

[dmd175]

onward soldiers

[dmd175]

Guys, I was just looking at the demographics, and well, I hoped that I could play the next 10 turns also, without anyone being offended. Our demographics are bad...mainly b/c (I think) lack more cities. [Funny that we have all this information and have no evidence any one else is out there]

I want to build that city. Since the last ten turns were uneventful and played quickly, I hope that is ok.


EDIT: demographics likely erroneously low since I just kicked out that settler (lower pop by 66% = less tiles worked, etc)

[dmd175]

that was quick

2550 BC: end of turn...nothing to do.

2510 BC: Lewis S, Clark N.

2470 BC: Nineveh founded (warrior). We also have our first woman citizen. Lewis SE, Clark NE.

2430 BC: Clark, having reached the end of the banana peninsula by slaying the great protector ape, must now head south on a 1 millenium journey to reach the border of outer nineveh. Lewis W. Worker2 mines.

2390 BC: Babylon builds veteran warrior. We could build warrior for MP duty and protection. But there is no one around (ok, one erratic Hurrian somewhere). Hell, let's build that temple.

Veteran S. Worker 1 W. Lewis W.

2350 BC: Worker 1 to wine. Veteran climbs the mountain S of Babylon and scouts much tundra and a fish. Lewis W...and he confronts head on the Hurrian warrior...

2310 BC:...who attacks and kills Lewis. Worker1 begins hooking up wines. Veteran SW.

2270 BC: Nineveh builds warrior (IX Corps), who will explore W. Now build to worker. Veteran SW.

2230 BC: Veteran and IX Corps NW. Clark (S) runs into an English warrior who brings bad news.

Elizabeth has masonry, alphabet, pottery, wheel, warrior code; two slave workers; 35 gold; the city of York. Life at emperor level. Will not trade for alphabet, wheel, masonry. Pottery costs 3gpt+148, warrior code 148+6gpt. I know WC gives us our UU, but 1) we don't need it right now (or yet, hopefully, but who knows what England has in store for us), and 2) I certainly do not want GA anytime soon.

Thus, I buy pottery for 2gpt+133 (cheapest possible). I've switched Babylon to granary, but next emperor will have time if he wants to switch back to temple w/o shield loss.

2190 BC: Wines hooked up. Worker1 irrigates. Veteran W, IX Corps NW, Clark S.

2150 BC: Veteran W and finds Harappan camp with 2 warriors. IX Corps W, Clark S.

EDIT: arrows approx last known positions of English and Hurrian warriors.

[dmd175]

Sorry to say our demographics are not that much better. Pop to 56k from 10k, GNP/mfg both little less than doubled, productivity from 10 to 20. English have 19% world pop vs. our 11%.

We should expand westward to block English. I just chatted with Elizabeth before the turn was over, and she needless to say was not willing to trade anything for 23 +5gpt. One of the last epic huge map games I played I started next to the English and whipped them like a dog with warriors and horsemen. Looking forward to doing that again, this type with bowmen.

[punkbass2000]

One quick thing about improving tiles. Mining a hill while in Despotism isn't very worthwhile. It takes 12 turns as well as only giving you a 1 food 2 shield tile (with Dep. penalty), or, in other words, a forest. Though Nineveh does not have a forest to work, it's still probably not worth the time.

[dmd175]

PB, good point about disadvantage of mining hill now. I was trying to get that worker to cross the river, and the hill was open. Given the situation where both worker 1 and worker 2 were done and S of Babylon, what would have been a better work order: irrigate grassland, start working the plains across the river, start roading out to the wines, or something else?

[punkbass2000]

Oh yeah, I knew I had another thing to say. Don't irrigate grasslands (without food bonuses) under Despotism either. It does nothing except save you from having to irrigate the tile later when you have a better government. Despotism reduces any food or shield production above three by one. Thus a grassland (2 food) gains 1 food through irrigation but has now crossed the "three" threshold and loses a food, reducing it back to two. Do irrigate the Wines, though, as they give a +1. Thus, they produce 3 food, minus 1 because of Despotism. Irrigating gives a +1 to (4 - 1).

EDIT: Oh, and to answer your question I would road towards the Wines first, though irrigating a plains is also pretty useful.

[Dominae]

Something I noticed:

Originally posted by dmd175
Worker 1 irrigates, b/c Babylon is stuck at 10 turns till growth.

This does nothing; the +1 Food you get from irrigating a Grassland is lost to the despotic tile penalty.

Irrigating the Wines Grassland is the right move though, but (just to complicate things!) not the Wines Plains.

[wertyu70]

If nobody else is going to join as student, I will be happy to play the next ten turns today when I arrive at home (About 18:00 Central Europe Time)

Besides, What's the right action to do with Wines Plains?

[dmd175]

Thanks for the critique. One part of my brain is definitely aware of the food/shield tile penalties under despotism. Part of the reason I irrigated was because I didn't think the worker had much good to do. The other option I considered was to road SW of Nineveh. PB, Dom, thanks. So far two tile mistakes. If you guys have time, could you outlay plan/work list for tiles/workers that makes sense?