AU 504 Glory of Culture DAR 3 - Middle Ages/Home Continent Explored

[nbarclay]

This DAR covers the time period from 1000 BC until players have entered the middle ages and explored most of their home continent.

How have you balanced building up your culture against plans for conquering additional territory to build culture in, and how is your culture doing so far? What wonders, if any, have you gotten, and which AIs have gotten the other wonders you consider most interesting? What has your strategy been in regard to governments? How are you doing scientifically? And what are your plans for the future?

[Modo44]

Gandhi the Warmonger

Monarch level, AU mod.

Now it's finally war. Well, in the next post it is. The period is quite long and eventful, so I might slip some details. I will focus on the most important events.

After finishing Literacy I waited for some time, then traded it to China for IW and all their gold. After that, I was the sole tech leader on my continent. Went for Philosophy and got it first, along with Code of Laws. Traded Philo for Polytheism, so I didn't have to research it myself. Kept researching all techs, leaving Monarchy for the AIs.

Yes, I went straight to Republic. The reason was, I didn't want to lag on technology, when I met the others. Normally I would go out to get the Great Library, then switch to Monarchy and finish off everybody on the continent, while dropping research to have cash for rushes. It turned out, that short-enough wars don't hurt a republic. I was able to research, build and conquer the Chinese - all in the same time.

What helped, was a strangely timed GA, which I didn't expect. The Colossus in Calcutta ended up as it was (that's commercial). The GLib was snatched by the Chinese (while I was already amassing my armies on their border...), so my Ancient Cavalry would get a great education . SoZ is religious, so GA started, while still in despotism. Luckily it took only a few turns to get to Republic, as I was already researching it at max speed. Good or bad timing? I don't know yet. We'll see how this will hurt when I'll be building Universities...

Now I could have finished REXing, but I figured the Chinese had better land and just as close to my capital as the unclaimed territories north. Also, I wanted the Great Library. So, Delhi went for 2-turn Swords and other cities added a couple. Also some vet Warriors were upgraded. The other cities still had things to build and it was Golden Age, so Delhi and SoZ would provide all reinforcements. The first Ancient Cavalry joined the army just in time to start the war.

Ready were: 4 Swords, 2 Archers, 1 Spearman, 1 Ancient Cavalry soon to come, more swords from Delhi every 2 turns. Only objective was Beijing - dedicated to crippling the Chinese with minimum effort. Before the Chinese War I:

[Modo44]

Gandhi the Warmonger

The first war went pretty good. Unexpected, the Chinese forces were somewhere in their tundra territories when I attacked, so resistance was very weak (some cities with only 1 regular Spear to defend them). I only made peace with them when most of their good land (not tundra) was mine, I attacked the Persians, and war weariness started to show. One elite Swordsman gave me a leader, immediately turned into an army. [edit]Come to think of it, it was probably the Great Library in Beijing that killed the Chinese. By this time they have built many, many Archers and Swordsmen to fight India.[/edit]

During the war, I stopped producing swords in Delhi and started the Mausoleum of Mausollos (9 turns only - still in my GA). Not a normal thing to do, but I'm after culture, so...

Because of the GA, I was able to rush temples in the former Chinese territories. In general, this land prooved productive right from the start - the commercial trait probably helped here. Many Chinese slaves started to improve the land. I also added a couple new workers to get it done fast.

The first war with the Persians ended very quickly after taking one city and killing some Immortals. They gave 2 crap cities for peace, but I gladly took them. The reason was, I had trouble dispatching those Immortals on the rough terrain. Also, I was still mostly in heavy builder mode, with only Delhi and SoZ providing any offensive units.

After the war with the Chinese, I was the tech leader of the continent. First, only by Republic, then it was more and more over both the Chinese and the Persians. Here it became Currency and Republic. It was war with Persians (again), while in Republic, researching at a reasonably fast pace and buying culture (GA over by now). Go commercial trait.

[edit] Note that i closed both chokepoints with cities, so no land route between China and Persia existed. Also, this would allow any Indian ships to cross to the other side of the continent with ease. Not that I had many at the time.

[Modo44]

Gandhi the Warmonger

From then on I continued to fight while building and researching, with an emphasis on the second two. My armies had many bad experiences with the friggin Immortals. It was only with War Elephants that I was able to finally crack the Persians - taking Persepolis.

The Chinese also had their fun with me, leaving them with only two continental cities in the early medieval times. They managed to get to and island just to the east.

For some time I was researching at 10% and making a 300+ surpulus that was immediately turned into Libraries and then Cathedrals. I'm certain that I was first to Monotheism, because the Iroquis (the biggest AI in my game) didn't have it when I first met them. What they did have first was Feudalism - and they built Sun Tzu's 3 turns before I did. After gunpowder I'll research Education and start on some Universities. I still have only a couple Colosseums built - they just don't want to fit in the build queue. Which reminds me; for new cities it is: Temple (rushed), Library (rushed), Cathedral (rushed), other buildings.

The Ottomans were destroyed somewhere around this time. Probably the Iroquis' doing.

I just got my first Crusader from The Knights Templar. With the Ancient Cavalry still strong on my continent (nobody else has Feudalism around here), I'll be soon finishing the sweep. Right now I'm having a short break to buy things in peace. The plan is to test the Cavalry on the other continent only.

Here's 810 AD. It's shortly after the cracking of Persia, when I made peace (war weariness was the reason). Still running a big surpulus for culture rushes around the place. I'm up Theology and Chivalry on the guys from across the ocean. In 3 turns I'm finally taking off the 10% from the lux slider, as Sistine Chapel will be built. 13693 culture at this point, about 3 times more than the Iroquis - the biggest AI culture. Still many cultural buildings to rush.

[Risa]

AU504, Emperor, AU Mod

950bc: The first wonder of the world, Statue of Zeus, completed in Bombay. Following library and granary building catch up, another prebuild started.
Other wonder cities aren't that lucky. Madras failed on Colossus due to the war in DAR2, and Bangalore failed Great Library/Temple of Artemis because of cascade: 850bc Chinese got Pyramids, 630bc Persian got Great Library, and Iroquis built ToA in 510bc.

610bc: Polytheism was researched. By this time Chinese had already developed sophisticated philosophy and map making skills. Yet I didn't feel the urge of tech exchange. Why should I feed up Persian leecher? The next object is monarchy and Hanging Garden.

450bc: Persian developed their own philosophy at last. We happily introduced ideas of Polytheism to them to learn their discovery, while Chinese were willing to taught us how to ride. They would regret that, I'm sure, for my cities were running out of buildings and needed something to do. Training horsemen was absolutely ideal. Choosing horses over swords is for their speed and retreat, together with the ability of upgrade to war elephants.

270bc: The war preparation worked well. Now even Chinese gave me a pretext: two of their archers entered my territory. The second Indo-China war broke out. In 170bc we capture Tsingtao, cut off the route of reinforcement to Hangchow and Tientsin. The latter two fell in 130bc and 50ad. China did offer hard counter attacks of swordsmen, tying up my large half of attacking force in defending Tsingtao. But it paid off well. In 90bc, the first great leader of Indian arose from battlefield! He was appointed to lead an ancient cavalry army.

70bc: Monarchy was mastered by us. Prebuild in Bombay was converted to Hanging Garden. And timing is almost perfect: only 2 turns to wait! However, I didn't encourage the revolution that time, even we are religious. I needed more free unit support of despotism.

30ad: Not all the things went well. Persia demanded monarchy and declared war once I refused. Their imfamous immortals were really impressive. My spearmen were slaughtered, my horsemen didn't do much good against immortals in jungle in counter attack as well. The north line was nearly collapsed, and in 70ad they even captured our city of Punjab. But at this time, as Tientsin was in our hand, and the peace treaty with China was signed, my main force marched directly to the north line from Tsingtao, recapturing Punjab in the following turn. Panic of surprise attack passed, we had gained steady foot. By 230ad, Bactra, the front base of action of Persian, met their Indian ruler.

130ad: Chinese had completed the Great Lighthouse. They had no competitor of that wonder.

310ad: Construction was researched. Right the time Persia and China have all ancient techs except code of law, while I was still lack of currency and map making. The front line of Indo-Persia war stayed there, as it is never easy to wage war in jungle and on mountain. So time for peace. As the result of tech trading, all three countries entered middle age. Persian got the free tech of engineering. Revolution to monarchy began.

320ad: From the other side of the world, we heard that Germany was destroyed. It seemed that the other continent was not haven, either.
330ad: I was King of India from the year on.

In all, this period is satisfying. Fought two sucessful wars, got 2 important wonders, built the first army. The only thing I don't like is the tech pace. It's a bit slow.

Further plans: catch up building marketplace, courthouse and harbor, followed by cathedral. Regrouping forces and take control of Beijing.

[nbarclay]

Emperor Level, AU Mod Rules

India's bid for the Pyramids failed in 610 BC when China completed that wonder. When news reached Delhi, Gandhi called in his advisors and asked them what his nation should do next. One of the nation's leading mystics, a man whose words were noted for being as cryptic as they were few, said, "Culture comes from the tusks of an elephant." Those strange words would change the course of the nation's history.

The Statue of Zeus was completed in 590 BC at a very small loss of shields, the first great connection between elephant tusks and culture. Persia completed the Great Library that same turn, and Spain had recently completed the Oracle in Madrid.

About that time, a Chinese warrior started moving into India in a move that was potentially ominous. When additonal warrors and archers started following, the danger signs became clear. India started what few preparations for war were possible in light of its other important activities. The screenshot below shows the danger zone as of 530 BC, with a Chinese archer on the border and a second archer accompanied by two warriors just south of the border.

On the technological side of things, India completed its research into Currency and started work on Construction, having traded Mathematics to acquire Literature, Iron Working, and Horseback Riding. China had Code of Laws and Mysticism and Persia had Code of Laws, but India was not ready to trade quite yet.

[nbarclay]

India managed to get an adequate defense - barely - ready in time - also barely. Unfortunately, the Statue of Zeus seemed to misfire and not produce the first Ancient Cavalry it should have. With how badly I needed every available unit at the time, that hurt. But even so, China's attacks on Bombay failed, costing only the pillaging of India's ivory source.

When China attacked, India enlisted Persia in an alliance, bringing the weight of immortals to bear on the situation. It took a few turns for Persia's Immortals to reach Chinese soil, but once they did, they took the pressure off. India had time to prepare swordsmen and catapults, and finally pushed the attack forward to a Chinese settlement along the southwestern border. The result was the autorazing of the city.

But when New Calcutta was built adjacent to the former Chinese city, it became a lightning rod for Chinese swordsmen. With the alliance with Persia over, Gandhi decided that it was time to make peace and let Persia and China slug it out for however long they wanted to.

As of 50 BC, Persia was the continent's technological leader with Philosophy, but the three civilizations were otherwise even. India would enter the medieval era with the discovery of Polytheism in three more turns.

[nbarclay]

And here's what India looked like at the time, with its initial REXing stage completed during the war.

[nbarclay]

After India made peace with China, the war between China and Persia continued. For a while, China got the upper hand, advancing through Indian territory and reaching a Persian jungle city. But the city held, and China's reserve of offensive forces perished.

In AD 360, the time came for a second war between India and China, this time with India having the advantage of being the nation better prepared for hostilities. India's great (albeit only recently appointed) feudal lords had sent forth their levies of swordsmen to be upgraded to medieval infantry and of spearmen to be reequipped with pikes, and a trade of Feudalism to Persia for Engineering ensured that river crossings would not be an obstacle against sending in reinforcements. Nine units equipped with catapults and six with the newer trebuchets would weaken the resistance before offensive units mounted their attacks.

With the bombardment support, Gandhi actually felt confident that his just over a dozen medieval infantry with ancient cavalry support could conquer at least a large part of China without a need to keep building reinforcements. So even before the war started, India had shifted its military production to horsemen for military police duty and eventual upgrade to war elephants. (With the speed of the advance limited by bombardment units, and with ancient cavalry available for what fast-mover duties were needed, there was little point in using horsemen offensively. But using them as military police could free other units for offensive use.)

With the beginning of the war, ancient cavalry assassinated the Chinese swordsmen that had been traveling through Indian territory without permission on their way to Persia. Tsingtao fell almost immediately, and Beijing shortly after. [Ironically, I didn't even realize it was Beijing I was attacking. Even though I'd set up the scenario, I was thinking the Chinese starting location was a bit farther southeast.] At long last, India's ancient dream of owning the Pyramids was fulfilled.

With China's existing offensive forces destroyed on their way to Persia and its new offensive construction kept busy fending off Indian attacks, Persia was able to go on the offensive again (helped by a preexisting Right of Passage agreement with India). Two Chinese cities on what turned out to be the eastern coast fell to Persian troops while India was busy conquering central and western China. War weariness eventually became a minor problem, but with India very close to researching Chivalry, it made sense to keep pushing forward the attack until a War Elephant could arrive to trigger a golden age. [The logic of researching Chivalry myself was that the sooner I triggered my GA, the sooner I could use it to help build cultural buildings in the territory I already had and/or to build military forces to attack Persia. An earlier GA would also help in the medieval wonder races.]

In AD 590, India's first and so far only War Elephant unit arrived to participate in an attack on Xinjian (from which it only barely emerged victorious thanks to its bonus hit point). With India's golden age triggered, Gandhi obtained two of China's three remaining cities in a peace treaty and turned his nation back to peaceful pursuits - for the moment.

[Arrian]

Picking up my notes where I left off from DARII...

775 bc - Philo discovered, Republic for free, revolt. Attack new Persian city in the eastern jungle (too close), fail miserably. Lose vet archer, regular archer and regular warrior. Promote defending spear to elite.

730 bc - China demands CoL, and declares war when rebuffed. Uh-oh.

670 bc - Having counterattacked and nailed the city I was after, I make peace with Persia for pottery (!) and the city of Sidon (settled in the desert, on the coast, west of Persopolis).

The war with China gets ugly fast. I have warriors stockpiled for sword upgrade, but haven't yet hooked up the iron. This I do once I see how many swordsmen are sent my way. My archers/spears and a few horsemen hold off the invaders, and then we counterattack once our swords & catapults can be brought to bear.

250 bc - Germany finishes the Colossus.

110 bc - HBR + 1gpt + 34 g to Persia for Mysticism.

Here my notes read HORRIBLE COMBAT LUCK. The attrition is getting to me.

70 AD - Philo to Persia for worker + 46 gold. Statue of Zeus complete. Peace with China. We get Polytheism + 32 gold from them in exchange for Map Making. We have taken two Chinese cities - one settled on the eastern chokepoint, and one to the south of that. We settled south of the western chokepoint ourselves.

Shortly thereafter, the entire Chinese army marches right at me again. I demand they leave, and once again we're at war.

230AD - Forbidden Palace complete. I built it right next to my palace, once I realized I wasn't gonna get a MGL to rush it further out.

260 AD - Peace with China again for their treasury (~40g). Iroquois complete the Great Library.

270 AD - Iroquois complete Hanging Gardens. Oh my. At this point I realize then Chinese are trying to hit Persia (they were marching into my land again). I move 1 unit to block the western chokepoint and the Chinese march away, seeking galleys. Excellent.

On to DAR IV, since by this point I'm sure I was in the middle ages.

-Arrian

[nbarclay]

With the victory of its first and thus far only War Elephant unit, the Indian people began a twp-century-long celebration of superior wealth and production. Cities built cultural improvements one after another, once again proving the foresiight of the words, "Culture comes from the tusks of an elephant."

In AD 720, an Iroquois galley (helped by the Great Lighthouse) arrived off the Indian coast. After selling the Iroquois Chivalry for 42 gpt, India was ahead by two technologies: Education and Invention.

Shortly after, India started preparing for war with Persia, upgrading its sixteen horse units to War Elephants to join the one left over from the Chinese campaign. The plan was to trigger the war just as soon as India built an additional city along the Persian border.

But as it turned out, Xerxes had plans of his own. In AD 750, Persia launched a surprise attack on India and captured four bands of workers who were roading a marshland just on the Persian side of the current border. Potentially worse, some Immortals that had stayed in Indian terrotory in southern China after Persia and China made peace started attacking and could have taken a city or two if it were not for the defenders' valiant efforts.

The war with Persia ended in AD 920 after war weariness started to become an issue. Only four of Persia's core cities had fallen, but they included the nation's capital (thus taking the Great Library out of play before Persia met the Iroquois). In addition, Persia's two captured Chinese towns were now in Indian hands, and Persia ceded three island towns as part of the peace negotiations.

In the meantime, in a strange twist of events, India acquired a world map from the Iroquois in AD 810 as a prerequisite for trading for Iroquois luxuries. So India actually knew the shape and condition of the far continent before it knew what the northern part of its own continent looked like! It wasn't until the peace negotiations with Persia were complete, with a map included as part of the negotiations, that India finally learned the shape of Persia's remaining part of the continent.

In the screenshot below, I show only a small part of the minimap in order to avoid showing information about the other continent that more properly belongs in the next DAR.

[nbarclay]

A couple other notes:

1) The Arabs were conquered very early in the game.

2) The Spanish were conquered sometime around the late AD 700's. With the Oracle and Hanging Gardens, Madrid had been second only to Persepolis as a center of culture. The conquest of those two cities, one by my India and one by someone on the other continent, left Delhi as the world's leading center of culture.

3)Thanks to a disparity in city production, the Iroquois actually finished Sistine before Sun Tsu's. Sistine was completed in AD 760, and I managed to get Sun Tsu's myself a century later. I also built the Knights Templar in AD 780.

Here's the culture race as of AD 810. Thanks to the explorations of the Iroquois galley, the Iroquois are included. (If I went with the 920 culture picture, it would include all the civs; I actually satisfied the conditions for the end of DAR 4 before I satisfied those for DAR 3! )

[Modo44]

Your culture graph looks extremly good, especially the recent growth. Did the Iroquis end up weak in your game? Was the recent war the reason for the additional culture growth, or was there something else?

[edit: Just found my question about Iroquis answered in another DAR thread.]

[nbarclay]

The Iroquois were certainly not weak in my game. They didn't go on as early a rampage as they could have, but by the time I'd met them in AD 720, they had captured part of Spain (judging by the city list). My next DAR gives a clearer picture than I consider it appropriate to give here.

[cracky]

First my pic, then the post.....