AU601: Rhoth's Roman DAR (playing against Beta)

[Rhothaerill]

1325bc continued

I tried to use both techs to get the Germans to give up polytheism, which Persia didn't have and I knew Beta was interested in. They were insulted. Even playing around with sweetening the deal with 15gpt didn't come closer. So I ended up giving philosophy to the Celts for their gold, and then gifting mathematics to them to make them like me more. Following that I gifted math to both the Germans and the newly met Babylonians to pull both of them up from annoyed to polite. Also, it handily keeps both Beta and the Persians from being able to forge ahead of me by trading that tech away. As I write this though I'm kicking myself for not gifting philosophy to them either. If I still can I will do that next turn.

Finally I sent 75 gold-unaccepted to Beta to see if he would give me another tech (such as CoL) cheap.

[Rhothaerill]

1325bc continued

And finally a look at my empire. Just this turn I settled Pompeii down near Carthage (yes I'm aware of the potential irony of that if Carthage gets uppity soon...the only way it could be more ironic is if that city were near the volcano over by the dyes ). Because Beta and I decided not to have the opportunity to take AI cities I want to grab some of the choice riverland as soon as I can. It's a good thing too as Carthage has a settler and escort in the area. Hopefully they'll move back east as I'm soon to settle the area right next to their other city, as well as the riverland to the north of Pompeii. Food galore.

Militarily I am average to everyone other than Egypt who I have not yet met, and Babylon who I am strong to. Much of my forces are currently defensive, though I have some archers ready and more in production. I do have the iron connected and one legionaire built, but I do not want him coming into contact with anyone yet...especially that lone warrior Beta has over in my new city of Pompeii. I have no wish to let him start an early GA for me.

On the tech front I am now two techs behind Persia and one behind Germany, with the potential for three if they trade amongst themselves before I can. I'm not quite sure what Beta has yet. The 75 gold offer was as much of a test to see what he has as anything. If he takes me up on it then great, if not then perhaps I can learn something.

Oh, and I decided to begin the Statue of Zeus. We'll see what happens. It would be nice to get it and get it early.

[vmxa1]

BTW thanks for including your playing partners name in the title. It makes it so nice to not have to keep track of who is in each game.

[Rhothaerill]

1225bc

I just had a series of events occur which I quite enjoyed. In order...I open up the turn and do my moves, then check out the tech situations of the AI nations. Inexplicably the Celts now have both polytheism and map making which they didn't have the turn before. I can only assume they discovered map making and traded it to the Germans who also ended up with map making this turn.

In any case it gave me an idea. I couldn't get Code of Laws out of Beta earlier (though I knew he had it because he had offered it to me). So instead I pay a lot of gold to the Persians to get it.

[Rhothaerill]

1225bc continued

Next the Celts. I trade CoL for polytheism and 90 gold.

[Rhothaerill]

1225bc continued

On to Carthage where I get map making and 15 gold for my newly acquired polytheism.

[Rhothaerill]

Oops, the shot.

[Rhothaerill]

1225bc continued

Then back to Persia where I get much of my gold back. Finally I sent code of laws to Carthage for 20 gold, and gift it to both the Germans and Babylonians before sending polytheism-unaccepted to Greece (though Beta no longer wants it ).

To recap I paid 16gpt and 15 gold upfront. In return I receive 7gpt, 195 gold, and 3 techs. Not bad. My only regret is that the gpt went to a civ that Beta knows, but oh well.

[Rhothaerill]

925bc

I haven't taken a screenshot of my land lately, but the one above serves well for what I'm about to mention. I also haven't kept detailed notes as I wanted to have more fun with this one.

From where we left off last night (925bc) not a single other nation has discovered a new technology. There are only four left in the age (two of them government techs) so that doesn't surprise me. My research on construction has continued apace. Beta and the Babylonians still don't have polytheism as Beta said he doesn't want it from me. I assume he'll try to get it from the AI.

My REXing has also continued well. I've settled several more cities in the last 300 years including one in the river valley directly north of Pompeii and one along the river directly east of Pompeii (shares first city radius with a Carthage city, but is building a temple currently). I have also claimed the dyes in the northwest and have both another city close to it and a road almost finished to connect it. One more city on the river valley and I will have a line of my territory completely blocking off Carthage. Then I can concentrate on settling the horse tile and some of the northern areas. I was initially afraid I would be cut off from settling the river valleys, but Carthage has only managed to settle one city in the area so far. My not-quite-optimal settler pump city of Rome has been doing well. I've also been able to set up my city placement such that almost every city I currently have has access to fresh water and no need for an aqueduct. A few of those cities share first ring tiles with Carthage, but I expect to have culture sooner than them and steal his first ring tiles.

On the military front I am maintaining parity with the other nations which isn't bad considering I shut one of my military cities (Veii) down to build the Statue of Zeus. There are only 10 more turns before I get it and can ramp the city back up to military production as well as having all those nice Ancient Cavalry (keep in mind we're not playing the AU mod). I'm fairly sure I'll get it as no one else is building it and Carthage has only recently put forth an effort from one city toward the Pyramids (which other nations have been building for a while). I haven't built too many Legions as yet as I didn't want an ultra-early golden age. But now my empire has expanded enough that it won't be a huge problem if something happens. I'd still like to be in another government first though, and preferably spring the golden age by building the Statue of Zeus, and then a late middle age commercial wonder like Smith's Trading Company.

I also finally contacted the last of the nations, Egypt, after travelling through German territory. They had nothing for me though. So far everyone except Persia (cautious) and Beta's Greeks like me.

And finally, Beta had sent a warrior into my territory and admitted to me that it was on a mission to try to sack a city. I thought about just destroying it, but instead toyed a bit with him by not attacking him, but not letting it close to a tile. Unfortunately that came back to bite me as a barb camp that I hadn't taken care of yet chose that moment to spring out a horseman near an unprotected worker roading to Pompeii. Beta at that moment was on the one tile I had told him he could travel on without me taking it as a hostile act, and I couldn't get a defender over to protect the worker in time. Oh well.

That's all for now. I'll probably put up another "state of the empire" screenshot when we get to the next cutoff point at 750bc.

[alexman]

I like your early curragh. Definitely the way to go when starting on the coast, even as a non-seafaring civ.

I delayed building my first one and it wasn't as useful.

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by alexman
I like your early curragh. Definitely the way to go when starting on the coast, even as a non-seafaring civ.

I delayed building my first one and it wasn't as useful.

That was my thinking. I thought about doing two, but I wanted to get my granary going. As it turned out, there was no real need to go the other way since only the Celts are on the coast up there, and they were one of the first civs I met.

If I hadn't sent that early curragh I likely wouldn't have met Greece or Babylon for quite a while since I decided to turn my warrior away and not go through Persia after meeting them.

[sabrewolf]

so, i'm going to join in here too after my game is basicly wrapped up

rhoth: paying in gpt (16 is a lot for this early stage) is great if you can guarantee war against persia. if they have a unit in your territory, you can buy a lot for credit and then piss them off severely and demand them to leave... saves a lot of money

i often bound paying gpt deals for techs to treaties, so when greece bought the AI out of war, i got rid of the gpt debt


but a much more important question: where did you find these culture borders? i really like them! and the only ones i found at poly were the dotted lines or some wierd curvy ones... yours are really well visible

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
so, i'm going to join in here too after my game is basicly wrapped up

rhoth: paying in gpt (16 is a lot for this early stage) is great if you can guarantee war against persia. if they have a unit in your territory, you can buy a lot for credit and then piss them off severely and demand them to leave... saves a lot of money

i often bound paying gpt deals for techs to treaties, so when greece bought the AI out of war, i got rid of the gpt debt


but a much more important question: where did you find these culture borders? i really like them! and the only ones i found at poly were the dotted lines or some wierd curvy ones... yours are really well visible

At the moment I am sticking to all my deals. I want to have the option to be the most well liked of the two human players if the game comes down to it (I don't expect it to though ) As to paying a lot of gpt, I did get every single bit of it back in either gpt or lump sum gold during that round of trading. I paid 16gpt and 15 gold and got back 7gpt and 195 gold. So I essentially paid absolutely nothing to purchase code of laws, polytheism, and map making.

As to the borders I don't quite remember where I got them. I know Trip was the one that directed me to them. He mentioned them again in a strategy thread a while back. I'll see if I can find it as he also posted a link to them there.

[sabrewolf]

I paid 16gpt and 15 gold and got back 7gpt and 195 gold.

now imagine you get the 195g without paying the 9gpt
but ok, it's probably not worth it.

So I essentially paid absolutely nothing to purchase code of laws, polytheism, and map making.

yes and no.
net, you paid nothing, but looking at the whole picture, 3 AIs now have all techs too (but here it's better like that, then beta can't trade it to them)

I want to have the option to be the most well liked of the two human players if the game comes down to it

if you really should get to the modern ages without a final decision in favour of one of the players, i doubt getting persia to declare war on you now will make an influence (you're bound to go to war some day)

I'll see if I can find it as he also posted a link to them there.

couldn't find it at first glance

if you can't find it either, do you think you could post it here? it's just following file:
...\Civilization III\Art\Terrain\Territory.pcx

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
now imagine you get the 195g without paying the 9gpt
but ok, it's probably not worth it.

It's not. I don't feel like going to war with Persia at the moment just to save a few gold...especially if I can't take their cities.

(but here it's better like that, then beta can't trade it to them)

Now that right there is the key issue. I want to be the one to trade to the AI and not let Beta do it. I have no problem getting very little out of a tech by trading it to them if it keeps anything at all out of Beta's hands by letting him trade the tech. Beta is my opponent in the game, not the AI's. They're tools.

I found the link... New borders In any case I couldn't have posted the graphics file as I am not at a computer that has civ on it.