The Quixotic Adventures of Sancho Panza--A Greek

[jshelr]

Never would have done it in a SP game. But bear in mind that we got lots more than just peace in both of these deals.

The Babs had 7 bowmen. There are two romans and two or three Germans, along with 2 egyptians, all within striking distance. If the Persians showed up as well, we would be at risk for survival. Then you have to expect the Romans to bring some legionaries, with arrival expected in 10 turns unless the alliance with Persia has presented travel problems for the Romans.

What I didn't want was to have lost a lot of units just before the Romans showed up for a real war. It looked like there was no way to avoid that. The Babs bowmen were being smart in refusing head on collisions with the hoplites. It would take a lot of archers to beat them back and the fight would have been in the same space I want to settle and hook up iron.

I don't like the gold loss any more than you guys do. What I'm assuming (hoping) is that Alexman is fueling the AI with steady purchases of alliances against us. It might be that he is using a tech lead to bribe alliances.

Bear in mind that one of the deals turned the tables and made it harder, we hope, for Alexman's stack to travel to our turf.

I thought currency in the second deal was worth it.

The nice thing about, Greece is that you can defend all the way up to Cavs, and maybe even against the 5-attack cavs in the AU mod. Tech speed is less important than it usually is, particularly since we can't attack the AI.

Basically, I'm resigned to buying old techs at drastically reduced prices and floating along well behind for awhile. We are trying to be patient, looking for a chance to get back into a competitive posture.

[vmxa1]

Not a bad plan at all.

[jshelr]

My impression, probably wrong , is that alex plan to keep me at war is not working:

evidence:

1) bribed alliances only bring a desultory archer or two over to Greek land and they bounce off hoplites, usually hold up in walled or hill cities. No pillaging of note has been attempted by the AI.

2) every time I have something significant to offer, either gold or a tech, the AI virtually ignores the "war" and trades with me anyway. prices seem ok

admittedly, the Persian persistence in staying at war with Rome has helped. I usually have two AI to trade with, lowering prices i think.

rome is a good deal larger, but as the pic shows, they do not have a tech lead. (Only code is left in the ancient era and we then get a free tech.)

On the downside, I paid for Monarchy with gpt. So, I cannot switch governments or the anarchy will break the gpt deal. I probably should have just waited for feudalism, but I did not trust that government.

[Catt]

Originally posted by jshelr
On the downside, I paid for Monarchy with gpt. So, I cannot switch governments or the anarchy will break the gpt deal. I probably should have just waited for feudalism, but I did not trust that government.

You may want to test this in an MP game, but in SP the resulting anarchy doesn't prohibit the ongoing gpt payments or trash your rep. If you have enough in the treasury, you lose the gpt each turn and the other party gets its gpt; if your treasury is empty, you lose nothing (no units are disbanded nor are city improvements forcibly sold off), and the other party actually continues to receive the gpt as if you were still paying it -- it materializes out of thin air -- you emerge from anarchy without a tarnished rep or an unhappy trading partner. In SP with a non-religious civ you can save quite a bit of gold by revolting (if that was already in the plan) during a stream of large outgoing payments -- so long as the treasury is empty!

Probably wise to test first (since I don't play MP) and up to you how you feel about the "exploit-ishness" of this approach (it is true for human and AI in single player -- the AI will continue to pay the gpt even with a 0 treasury, too).

Catt

[jshelr]

Great advice Catt.

Alex beat us to it, however. He immediately bribed the civs I was paying into alliance against me. That ended the gpt. So, I got Monarch and maps essentially for free.

I hope further gpt trades are possible. This is nearly an exploit.

[jshelr]

Ominous: Persia has been bribed to declare war and we drew a full 7 turns of anarchy. The nightmere scenario is that Persia granted a RoP and a stack of legionaries has been dispatched. (Alexman is in anarchy as well.)

If you get no further postings, it's because we've sunk from sight

[jshelr]

Lack of discipline in sticking to the game plan has probably got me in trouble.

We pushed a settler / hoplite pair beyond the road system, violating the rule that we need to be able to get 2 hoplites into any threatened city in one turn.

The rng promptly punished us

I have a bad feeling about the effect on the ai of losing a city and being in anarchy. Slip sliding away.....

[jshelr]

Things calmed down and we basically only have the Bab's bowmen to worry about currently.

Alex seems to have caught on to the gpt dodge and we are not at war with everyone at the moment.

Thought for today: should I skip Feudalism as long as possible to keep building low-cost hoplites??

[jshelr]

So, for one brief shining moment, we are at peace other than the absent romans.

Being too clever, we also made RoP agreements designed to make the AI like us

After the turn, the Babs bowmen all advanced toward an undefended Greek city

[Arrian]

Feudalism should not effect your hoplites. It's gunpowder you don't want for a good long while.

-Arrian

[jshelr]

Interesting, I thought they would fall off the build list when we got Feudalism.

[Arrian]

I don't think so... 99% sure. Same with Numidians. They stick around until gunpowder.

-Arrian

[jshelr]

ok, thanks!!

[jshelr]

We have about 15 Babs bowmen coming in now and a settler pair just out of the picture.

can't say too often or loudly -- ROP WAS A BONEHEAD MOVE

There is a blocking wall you can see and i don't think the Babs will attack until the 20 turns are up unless we leave them a juicy target. Have to keep them off the road system or we are toast.

Meantime, back at the ranch there is a stack of ten barb horsemen about to attack a one-hoplite-defended city to the South East and my friend Alex has just bribed large Persia into an alliance against us. Two Germans are inside the road system, advancing on the capital.

Unlike a SP game, there is no feeling of control in this game and you just have to try your best.

[jshelr]

In the first row of barb horsemen, we have 9 units on two tiles. Behind them we have 8 barb horsemen in the other stack. Four reinforcements will arrive after the turn, making 21 horse, not to mention the two on foot to the south.

All this would be little problem except we are fully stretched to keep the marauding Babs with about 25 bowmen from breaking into our core in the north.



we put some more targets in the barbs way during the turn and the germans also got into the mix with the warrior/archer pair you can see. unforturnately, the germans ended the turn blocking our path to the city under barb siege.