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How do I prevent culture flipping?

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  • #1

    How do I prevent culture flipping?

    I don't want to disable this feature in the game, but I'd like to hear from the experience war mongers on the following situation.

    In a recent game, I sailed a large flotilla filled with knights, pikemen, and medieval infantry to the southern flank of a nearby AI. The city had some fur I needed...

    So, I landed my invasion force of well over 20 units, declared war and attacked the city the next turn. I captured it, fortified my force inside the city fended off the first counter-attack wave, then a couple turns later, while I was healing up my forces, the city flipped back to the Celts!!! Bamb, lost 15 units!!!

    I read somewhere in here, that positioning a lot of troops in a city was supposed to prevent a culture flip.

    How could I have prevented this???
    "If you're not having fun, then you're losing the game."-Copyright Warrior Poet 11/18/2002 "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."-Tsun Tzu -Don't know when B.C.
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  • #2
    In the main having troops around 3xpop should do the job. What can be done to aid the cause:

    1- cut roads to their capitol
    2- place troops on tiles of the city (I have not tried this, but it hasbeen reported)
    3- rush a temple as soon as resister are gone

    I know this is like a wives tale, but I never had a city flip with an army in it. Now that could be like an elephant fence (none re around so it works).

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by vmxa1
      I know this is like a wives tale, but I never had a city flip with an army in it.
      It is - I have!

      I know it's pretty annoying to have that happen. Last game something similar happened to me. I capture a size 21 city, and moved 15 troops into it only to see it flip a couple of turns later.

      vmxa1 is right - it seems you need a ratio of about 3:1 to be relatively safe from flipping, which of course is impractical for a size 15 or 20 city. Another tactic some players use is to leave your main force just outside the city, ready to re-take it when it flips. This has the added advantage that when you retake it, the city is usually a few pop points lower which in some cases works even faster than starving it down - especially if the AI uses its turn to draft.

      Other tips:
      1. Make sure the city isn't rioting - switch on th egovernor to control citizen moods as soon as you capture it and don't turn the governor off until you've finished quelling resistors
      2. Make sure there are no enemy units occupying any of the workable city tiles
      3. If possible, generate a WLTKD
      4. Not always possible - but if the enemy Capital is nearby, get rid of it quickly!
      So if you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy and some taste
      Use all your well-learned politesse, or I'll lay your soul to waste
      Re-Organisation of remaining C3C PBEMS

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      • #4
        BTW I took it for granted that you would put everyone on specialist. At least through any anarchy or until down to the size you want.

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        • #5
          Thank you for your inputs. I usually do keep my units out of the newly captured city, but I had read that keeping the force in the city would prevent culture flips. It appears as if once you get to Monarch, culture flips are more likely. You essentially have 3-4 turns to take out the capital.

          Next time, i'm just going to burrn everything to the ground...
          "If you're not having fun, then you're losing the game."-Copyright Warrior Poet 11/18/2002 "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."-Tsun Tzu -Don't know when B.C.

          Comment

          • #6
            The probability of a flip (and hence the number of units required to be completely safe) depends several factors, which I won't list here, because they are described in detail elsewhere.

            For example in the FlipCalc thread, which hosts a utility that calculates for you the chance a city will flip, as well as the minimum number of units required to be safe from a flip.

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by vmxa1
              In the main having troops around 3xpop should do the job.
              I had a border city flipping just yesterday. It was pop 1 and had 8 units in it, one of which was an army of 3 units, which I counted as only one unit. All units were valid land units suitable to prevent flips (i.e. no catapults, ships or similar). It was my own city, btw, the only citizen was mine. My jaw was dropping when I saw it. Just for sports interest, I reloaded and put more units in it, with the result, that it needed ten units to be safe. Just to remind, it was size 1!

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              • #8
                lol...I don't think that flip calculator is right...

                In a Monarch game, I was beeting up on the Iroquois. I was using a systematic approach of quick wars followed by brief peace time buildups. Every city north and west of the Iroquois capitol was controlled by me. Turns out that there were about 3 or 4 wonders in the Iroquois capitol. Two turns after they built Leonardo's, a city I had occupied for a few hundred years, size 6, with 2 units in it and a temple I had built, flipped!

                This city was behind two cities I occupied and on the coastline controlled by my culture range.

                This infuriated me!

                Salamanca must have had some serious cultural power to pull that off! Why didn't it sway any of the cities that were closer???
                "If you're not having fun, then you're losing the game."-Copyright Warrior Poet 11/18/2002 "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."-Tsun Tzu -Don't know when B.C.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by WarriorPoet
                  lol...I don't think that flip calculator is right...
                  You are too quick to dismiss what experienced players have spent lots of time to figure out. If the calculator is not 100% right, it's very close to it.

                  The example you give doesn't give any information that contradicts the calculator. How many foreign citizens were in the flipped city? What was the ratio of your culture to the Iroquois' culture? What was your local culture in that city?

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sir Ralph

                    I had a border city flipping just yesterday. It was pop 1 and had 8 units in it, one of which was an army of 3 units, which I counted as only one unit.
                    Actually, I believe the Army should count as 4 units, but I could be wrong. Anyway, how many tiles in that city's radius were under foreign control?

                    For example, if there were just 4 tiles under foreign control, and your culture was 1/3 that of the other civ, you would need 12 units to be safe from a flip.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Alex, I'll try to dig out the .sav, but I'm pretty sure, that 3 of the 6 citizens were of my civ. The city was about 10 tiles west and 4 tiles north of Salamanca, the enemy capitol. My foreign advisor said that the Iroquois were "impressed with my culture" Additionally, the only culture I had in the city in question was from a Temple, that I had built about 20 turns ago.

                      I apollogize for appearing to dismiss the work of more experienced players. I should have approached this much more diplomatically. This event which I have just dropped on the community would probably be extremely difficult and rare to duplicate.

                      Salamanca is the original capitol of the Iroquois, and like I said, it had 3 or 4 wonders in it, including the Sistine Chapel, the Oracle, and Leonardo's, and the Hanging Guardens.

                      I should also point out that the Iroquois were the #1 Civ for a looooooong time before I hopped off my Island and started invading them.
                      "If you're not having fun, then you're losing the game."-Copyright Warrior Poet 11/18/2002 "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."-Tsun Tzu -Don't know when B.C.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        No need to dig up a save. If there were 3 Iroquois citizens and you had twice the culture of the Iroquois (impossible to have more if they are only 'impressed'), and your local city culture was less than the Iroquois (certain, if you had just a Temple for a few hundred years), then you would have needed at least 3 units to be completely safe from a flip. You said you had just 2.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by alexman
                          Actually, I believe the Army should count as 4 units, but I could be wrong. Anyway, how many tiles in that city's radius were under foreign control?

                          For example, if there were just 4 tiles under foreign control, and your culture was 1/3 that of the other civ, you would need 12 units to be safe from a flip.
                          It was for sure 4 tiles, if not more. About culture, well, it was during the REX phase and my first temples were just being built, so I had so far only my palace's. It's possible, that I had less than 1/3 of theirs, but OTOH, the other civ was Russia and it was only Emperor. If we count the army as 4 units, I ended up with 13 units making the city safe.

                          I just wanted to demonstrate, that the popx3 rule (if it exists at all) doesn't hold water.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Ok, thank you Alex for your incite. I never had to worry about cultur flipping at Regent level...

                            Regent to Monarch is a huge step!

                            I'm finding that in order to wage a successful war, I have to invaid, and take a supply point, then gun for the capitol ASAP.

                            Learning to avoid culture flips has meant that I have to build up larger force structures with ready reserves prior to invading.
                            "If you're not having fun, then you're losing the game."-Copyright Warrior Poet 11/18/2002 "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."-Tsun Tzu -Don't know when B.C.

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                            • #15
                              FYI incite should be insight. You incite someone, you make them mad.

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