AU502 DAR4: Steam Power

[ducki]

This is the fourth DAR thread for AU502: Celtic Power, dedicated to the time period between DAR3 and Steam Power. This might seem like a long stretch, but consider that some may require Astronomy or Navigation to get all those Contacts.

What are your plans for the Industrial era? Are you playing mostly a Builder game, a Warmonger one, or a 50/50 hybrid?

[Makahlua]

Well I started out as a warmonger, then slowly slid into hybrid and am now drifting into pure builder mode I'll discuss future plans at the end for now let's see where I left off..........*reviews DAR 3 quickly* Yep did pretty much as planned though I still have one last isle to go and will have to ship over a -ton- of workers for wetland/jungle clearing

Emperor - stock C3C

In 940 AD the French build the Sistine Chapel. Damn it. RoP signed with France so I can sail their waters safely. Heidelburg is captured, and I ring up gGrmany to discuss terms of surrender. we sign a simple peace as they are broke and behind ^^ Same with Sumeria + all 7 of their gold. If only my ships could trade over the oceans I could secure some techs The next turn brgins us to the all important switch to Republic In 970 we finish reforming into a Republic with the amazing result of being a turn ahead on Chemistry, anarchy notwithstanding I decide to build the FP up in Berlin instead of down in Salamanca since those cities are building decently without a corruption fighter and
the north -really- needs it.

990 AD and the Inca complete Copernicus' Observatory - and too late to grab the NE isle, the Aztecs are already there.... A couple of turns later Germany declares war on the Iroquois?? They are gonna be toast. 1020 AD brings us ChHemistry; I neglect to hunt for trades until the next turn but am able to trade it to Aztec for Education; there goes the ToA but thankfully the luxuires we've gained can keep the peace for a while. A few turns later, I note the French have started Magellan's so I call Joanie up to trade maps - so nice to be able to see where I'm going! We also trade 4 luxuries to her for Banking; I followup by the same luxes + 350g to Inca for Astronomy and turn that tech around to the Aztecs for Printing Press and upgrade the fleet to Caravels. And right after that the Aztecs start a war with France? If they were sharing a continent I'd worry

In 1120 AD Metallurgy is discovered - we trade it + 43 g to inca for Navigation + Democracy; and also to France for Chivalry + 182g. 1200 AD, and we finally discover Military Tradition.......only to find so had the AI, so much for trading up with -that- We trade Metallurgy to Aztecs for Music Theory +8g and cancel RoP with Iroq anticipating the attack on the northern isle. Next turn war is declared and the fleet lands - right after the Iroquis take the last German city and save me the trouble 1260 we discover physics - we trade it to Aztecs for Free Artistry and 3 luxuries to France for Economics. Next year the Inca Compleete Magellan's Voyage, and we trade 4 luxuries to the Inca for their World Map, 590 gold and a luxury from them. Next turn France completes Smith's and we take control of the last Sumerian city.

In 1300 the backwards Byzantines declare war on the Inca?? Crazy..... The Inca also finish JS Bach's Catherdral; two turns later the French finish Nweton's University and ally themseleves with the Inca against Byzantium. and then the turn after that, they build Shakespeare's Theatre... I feel so left out We sign a (temporary) peace with the Iroquois while we get some settlers and better garrsions over to the north isle. And in 1320 with the discovery of magnetism, the Celts enter the Industrial age

A quick check showed the AI with no Steam Power, only Nationalism so I decide to direct our scientists toward Medicine and Sanitation, thinking I can trade my way up what the AI decides to research. In 1370 we discover Medicine and trade it to Inca for 1160g + 10gpt + map; to France for 2 luxuries + 12 gpt + 50g; and also trade 3 luxuries to France for 1 of theirs to acquire our final luxury Forget what they say; money does buy happiness

In 1395 we complete the Forbidden Palace in Berlin and I watch my income shoot up. According to my military advisor i'm weak compared to france and inca. If the AI could do sea invasions worth a damn I'd worry Just waiting for the peace treaty to run out before I sack Hiawatha for the last time, heee. 1405 brings us Sanitation - the Inca have Steam Power but won't trade. Rrrr. Fine I'll research it myself then They do however buy the secret of how to flush for 86gpt + 160g + WM; Aztecs also buy in for 46gpt + 40g, but poor Joan's broke. No swirly for j00! 1435 brings us Steam Power - and our people want to build the IW?? *scans the map* It looks like the tiny tundra/coast city of Curovernum takes that honor; but hey it's better than nothing. But oh hell. Joan's setup for the same, and in Paris no less At least we have plenty coal

So, future plans? *checks f8 aka the Fate key* We're doing decent in the Culture department; France is ahead some but only at 4.5k in their best city and 30k overall; I'm at 2.1k and 20k so I can't see a suprise loos since they spread their wonders out luckily I'm the only once close for Domination @ 39% land/44% pop; closest rivals there are France with 17% land and Inca with 19% pop; I'm ahead of France in score too, but I think I can pull out a Diplomatic or Spaceship win before retirement; not saying it won't be close, but it can be done. If I could get a tech lead an whip out Tanks or Modern Armour advantage I might go for Domination/Conquest, but I think my best bet right now is to take that last isle, switch to Demo and see if I can pull ahead tech wise ToE beeline here I come!

[ZargonX]

More quick notes. This has been a rollicking good time so far

930 - Bad Tibra abandoned to give Ur some room
940 - Military Tradition discovered. Research set to 0% in prep for "The Great German
Erasure of 940"
960 - Music Theory to France for 77gpt and 150g
960 - Music Theory to Azt for 60g
990 - War declared on Germany after they refuse my demands of a measley 9g
1040 - Kuara lost to Germans
1060 - German saltpeter cut via Great Lake naval invasion
1090 - Heidberg captured; GL #4!!!
1140 - Iron to Sumeria for WM, 9gpt, 50g
1170 - Get a little overzealous and lose my Cav army
1170 - Frankfurt capture
1200 - Chem to Azt for 20gpt, 20g
1240 - Physics to France for wine, furs, banking, WM, 9g
-Dyes gifted to Byz
-Physics to Inca for Nav, 9g
-Spices and Incense to Sumeria for 5gpt, 50g, WM
1285 - Marad recaptured
1300 - Berlin captured
1305 - Theory of Gravity discovered
-Spices, Incense, ToG to France for Mag
1320 - Anarchy
-Leipzeig captured
1325 - Cologne captured
1330 - Stuggart captured
1335 - Change to Feud. Not quite what I was hoping for. Re-enter Anarchy, Konigsberg captured
1340 - Ivory, WM, 560g to France for Gems
1355 - Nuremburg captured
1360 - Salzburg captured
1365 - Munich captured
1370 - Stutgart deposes us
-Aztecs take out Sumerians (?)
1375 - Stutgart reclaimed
1380 - Steam Power discovered
-Heidleburg captured

Highlights: Warmongering can be fun I think the RNG is trying to make up for the last AU by giving me all these GLs. My production base is huge, and my military machine only has one place to go: forward!

[Risa]

After beating Sumeria to OCC, Brennus gathers his troop to south border, preparing for next war. Brennus has no idea what kind of weapon Hiawatha has, so he waits patiently, massing his forces.

Hiawatha invites JS Bach to the cathedral of Niagara Falls in 680AD. Brennus smiles when he hear it from culture minister, since Niagara Falls is the first target of the upcoming war.

When RoP with Iroquois is finally expired in 750AD, the third expansion war breaks out. Iroquois has musketmen now, which makes conquering a lot harder. However, despite our military are inferior in quality, ours are unchallengable supereme in quantity. Niagara Falls falls immediately, just as expect. In the following counter counter-attacks, General Caractacus has proven himself a worthy leader. He then leads a gallic swordsman - antienct cavalry army. Iroquois has performed some nice counter attack, taking away 2 of our oversea towns. "They'll hand them back, some day." Brennus is sure about that.


The battlefield ouside Salamanca in 810AD is just horrible. Many of Celtic gallic swordsmen fall there, including Orgetorix's ancient cavalry army. But it does worth that much of casualties. In addition to gaining Leonardo's workshop and Temple of Artemis, we also deny iroquois' access to horse. But Brennus' military minister makes a big mistake. He orders a group of 10 gallic swordsmen to attack another city without the help of armies. Only 3 have the chance of retreating back. After that Brennus takes a more cautious path. While slower, it's much safer. Thereafter Iroquois can't do anything to stop losing land.

To Brennus' surprise, Sumer deposed Celtic governer and rejoin Sumeria nation. War is the obvious choice. Retaking Sumer is relatively easy, and Brennus spares Ur this time. "You can live a bit longer, for our interests."

The first world map of Celtic people is gifted by Aztecs in 760AD. A bit earlier, French begins their plan of Magellan's Voyage. Brennus is worried about one French or Aztec ship showing on Iroquois coast, gifting them new technologies. "We won't have a chance if Iroquois had cavalries." Fortunately they didn't show up until around 1000AD. At this time it doesn't matter. Celts unite their countinent in 1060AD. The Forbidden Palace is built in Berlin in the same year.

French land 2 knights, 1 med infantry and 1 musketeer outside Mauch Chunk. What do they want? Brennus somehow remembers that German "hunting" group. Fearing for worst, Brennus abondons defense of Mauch Chunk to strengthen Salamanca's fortification. Protecting Leonardo's Workshop is his first concern.

French declare war on us in 1100AD, capture Mauch Chunk. Brennus feels he'd better keeps Aztecs outside this war, so he buys silks for Aztecs, in price of 2 Celts luxuries and several hundred golds. Yet in 1180, they join into the alliance against us! What the hell Montezuma is thinking?

Mauch Chunk is retaken in 1120AD, then suffers heavy naval bombardment. Thanks god no more French landing there, so that it's safe. French do land some knights on southwest island, that slows Iroquois' extinction to some extent.

Peace is signed with French in 1200AD, and it's time to harvest. Sumeria offers resistance of a fair large stack of enkidu warriors, and we nearly lose Caractacus's army. Brennus has a second thought: Since French are in their golden age (which was triggered in retaking Mauch Chunk), maybe we shall give some time to Aztecs, wating them to catch up. Besides, we don't want still in war when the revolution to Democracy ends.

So he waits a few years. Iroquois is destroyed in 1255AD, Aztecs agree to peace in 1260AD. In the same year, Sumeria is gone. Celtic scientists and technicians flood into Ur, busy reading those numerous tomes. They find records of Feudalism, Chivalry, Invention, Education, Gunpowder, Banking, Astronomy, Chemistry, Navigation, Economics, Democracy, Physics, Metallurgy, Free Artisty, Theory of Gravity, Magnetism, Military Tradition, and Steam Power! Strange there isn't any record about Music Theory, while all nations except Byzantine know it. Brennus trades it from Incan with Astonomy, then leaves his palace, devote himself into revolution!

=========
Paris is the only site of Ironworks in the world. I can expect a hard ToE race ahead. Evil ducki

[nbarclay]

Demigod Level, AU Mod

In 570 AD, I traded Economics to France for Military Tradition so I could upgrade two knights to cavalry and build some additional cavalry. I’d taken one German city, but I almost lost my army trying to capture Berlin and that was definitely not pleasant. After the army’s near-fatal attack, my MedInfs decided to wait for reinforcements unless the cannons could get exceptionally lucky (which they didn’t). Berlin finally fell in 610 after a long and bloody struggle, thanks to the help of newly arrived cavalry.

A decade later, the Celts won a race with the Aztecs to be the first to research Physics. A trade to France yielded Democracy and some gold, and a trade to the Aztecs yielded some additional gold (although the Aztecs had put enough research into it that they weren’t willing to pay much).

The Celts, Aztecs, and French all entered the industrial era in 680 AD through a series of trade deals. In a strange reversal, I traded Theory of Gravity, two luxuries, a map, and a handful of loose change to the Aztecs for Theory of Gravity. (Normally, I’m the one getting luxuries in tech trade deals, not the one giving them.) I then traded Theory of Gravity and Magnetism to the French for a luxury, Free Artistry and a little bit of gold and gold per turn. (Not that I planned to do anything with Free Artistry considering the head start the AIs had, but I got a little extra gold trading for it and I figured I would have an easier time trading for Nationalism if the Aztecs and French get it at about the same time.) Just after that, another one of my culture crowding maneuvers paid off in a culture flip when Isin got tired of being the only former Sumerian city in Iroquois rather than Celtic possession.

In 700 AD, Democratic revolutionaries started a revolt. I wasn’t sure whether war weariness from a war fought entirely in Monarchy up to that point could be a problem changing governments, but I figured I could make peace with whatever might be left of Germany when the revolution was over. If I didn’t finish the Germans off, the Iroquois would be happy to do it for me. As it turned out, the peaceniks were indeed complaining for me to give peace a chance when I emerged from Anarchy. So I promptly captured the last German city that same turn.

The Celts discovered Steam Power in 770 AD and found that the coal situation was highly favorable. The Iroquois had two coal supplies, one in their core and one up north, but they still had four mandatory medieval techs left to obtain before they could even start trying to get Steam Power. If all went well, they would not live long enough to have a chance to trade their coal to anyone. The French had a native coal supply, and the Incas had one on an island to my west if they could get a road and harbor in place, but it looked like the Aztecs and Byzantines would probably have to play without coal this game. At this point, there was one known island that I didn't know much about, so I couldn't be positive about its resource situation, but the AIs hadn't started settling it yet as best I could tell.

The save I have is actually from the turn after I got Steam Power. In 780 AD, I was able to trade Steam Power to the French for Nationalism and sell it to the Aztecs for just over a hundred gold per turn. Normally, I’m not in quite such a big hurry to get Nationalism, but I was thinking I’d probably want to switch to Communism as soon as my rail network and the changes from irrigation to mining associated with it were finished in my core area (if I could trade for it that soon). Nationalism can be a very hard tech to trade for if an AI is already researching the tech you want to trade for it, especially on Demigod. The deal with the Aztecs gave me positive income and thus let me use my gold surplus to rush the remaining work on some courthouses and marketplaces.

In regard to the medieval wonder races, I succeeded in snagging Copernicus’s Observatory in the year 550, Smith’s Trading Company in 610, and Magellan’s Voyage in 690. The Iroquois got Sun Tsu’s in 490 BC and Sistine in 10 BC. The Incas got Leo’s in 350 AD, and the Aztecs got the Knights Templar in 360 AD and Shakespeare’s Theater in 10 AD. The French completed Bach’s Cathedral in 610 AD and Newton’s University in 740.

[Aqualung71]

I'm currently struggling through DAR4, but wanted to mention something that really ticked me off, so badly in fact that I seriously considered throwing in the towel at that point (well, that and my generally lousy play ).

I had been playing tech-catch-up for most of the game due to some poor early decisions, and I was able to do so reasonably because of the extra resources I had focused on grabbing in my REX phase, trading
Iron and luxuries every 20 turns for techs.

By the late middle ages, Germany was down to their capital Berlin (isolated in the north surrounded by towns captured by Sumeria) and a tiny village in the south next to one of my cities. I was trading Iron with Germany, and that deal had 2 turns to run before I was due to renew it.

However, the end of Germany was near so I called up Bismarck to try to squeeze one more gpt-for-tech deal in before he met his maker, only to have him accuse me of breaking our deal. Not only that, the news had spread to every other civ on the planet and I had become a trade pariah.

What had happened was that Sumeria had captured Berlin, leaving Germany with only one remaining town, which became their capital. It seems to me the game engine cut my trade with Germany as soon as their capital was taken, without considering that I was still connected to the new capital. And of course, it was my fault the trade had been cut, right?

Under the circumstances, with gpt trades being so important to me at the time, this little quirk severely limited my tool-kit at a time when I most needed it.

Could somebody please tell me if I did something wrong (in which case I'm quite happy to "wear it") or if this is a game bug? If the latter, it's almost a game-breaker for me as I've taken some considerable care with my reputation to date.

[jshelr]

Pretty standard game as we got to steam power. Germany is now relegated to the tundra. Sumeria is gone from our home land mass. And the rump state of Hi will shortly be visited by arty and infantry to get Sistine. Our military railroad structure now allows the homelands to be defended with ease.

By the way, I really like the limited power of cavs in the mod which forces or encourages use of cannons. Makes for a more interesting game than just running roughshod over civs with 6-attack cavs.

The French and Germans researched Democracy, went through a change of government, and only then attacked Brennus. Dumb.

A large cannon stack was able to get Bismarck's 6-point civil-war-era defenders down to yellow and red health levels and we finished the job without many cav losses. Leo's will let Brennus upgrade to arty on the cheap and soon.

Brennus made some alliances and stayed a republic while finishing universal sufferage and progressing toward ToE.

A prebuild for Hoovers will likely allow us to finish it shortly after ToE finishes. Longevity has another prebuild start and also has the edge of factory plus power plant plus railroaded tiles.

The AI is wallowing in the Nationalism-Commie-Fascism swamp and we are far ahead toward ToE. They were very, very late to industrialization.

Actually, they moved to medicine and sanitation next and started Longevity. Our prebuild will probably get us Longevity anyway, and I look forward to seeing how fast an agricultural civ with both Pyramids and Longevity grows.

I don't see any problems, although we are pretty light on coastal cities with the power to build big ships. So, being inherently lazy anyway, Brennus will head toward SS as the civilized way to end this, unless resource scarcity forces us back to war.

[jshelr]

Thriller

As described, I can't think what you could have done other than save Bismark. It's almost a bug, I think.

[nbarclay]

It sounds like a bug to me. I don't recall whether I've heard of that exact variation of the problem before, but I've certainly heard enough complaints about how wars between AIs can break trade routesand ruin players' trading reputations. Even if there are things players can do to protect themselves from the bug (and I'm not sure what that might be other than not trading with a civ that you think might have its trade cut off by war), that doesn't keep it from being a bug as far as I'm concerned.

[Aqualung71]

jshelr, Nathan, thanks for the moral suppoort. Anyway, no big deal I suppose - I guess I'll just have to destroy them all....muahahahahahahaaaa

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by Makahlua
Joan's setup for the same, and in Paris no less

Speaking of the Iron Works, I established an embassy in Paris quite late, and when the Paris city screen popped up, it showed a city with all cultural improvements built, factory, coal plant and iron works. Population was 20 (none of the AI's usual huge food excess and consequent entertainers), and.......get this....

159 blue shields!!!!!

To say I was impressed is an understatement!

[jshelr]

Astute Diplomatic Maneuvering

[jshelr]

Thriller -- Yea, I was carping that they beat me to longevity by a SGL, but maybe it was Iron Works instead.

We're still way ahead on useful tech and really are not worried much about everyone battering on our shores. They only land a couple of cavs at a time which makes for great MGL opportunities.

To quote my president, love him or, preferrably, leave him, "Bring 'em on!"

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by jshelr
.

To quote my president, love him or, preferrably, leave him, "Bring 'em on!"

He's the president of toronto too?

[jshelr]

I have apparently succeeded in being considered an American in Canada and a Canadian in America