Police Stations and Xenophobic

[Jaybe]

Historically Communism came before Fascism, so there is the option of having Fascism requires Communism tech.

With Fascism getting the Trade Bonus flag, what might be its appropriate corruption level -- problematic or rampant?? Of course, they still have to get out the whips for rushing ....

[ducki]

I like the idea of moving Fascism(gov) to Nationalism, but if there is enough resistance to mucking with historical timelines, what about moving Commie and PoliceStations to Nationalism BUT putting the SPHQ in the Fascism tech(while keeping it a Commie building) and dropping the cost of Fascism?

On the other hand, goodness that seems convoluted to me now that I've written it down. Too far from stock?

[Madine]

If communism gov has to come first, then it is also possible to move police station to facism, move communism gov to nationalism, then get rid of communism tech.

[nbarclay]

I'm starting to think we ought to revive the idea someone proposed of consolidating Communism and Fascism into a single Totalitarianism tech. That way police stations could be available with the same tech as the Communiism government the way we're used to, but the choice between Communism and Fascism would not affect access to police stations. That's a lot less radical (in my view) than moving one of the governments to Nationalism would be. And for long-time players, consolidating Communism and Fascism into a single tech would probably have less impact on the feel of the game than moving Police Stations to a different tech would.

Nathan

[alexman]

Personally, I would like to leave the tech tree and improvements alone, and see Fascism become a worthwhile wartime government, at least for the AI.

That would be a minimum change (compared to other ideas being discussed) and would solve all of the issues, wouldn't it?

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by alexman
Personally, I would like to leave the tech tree and improvements alone, and see Fascism become a worthwhile wartime government, at least for the AI.

Fascism probably already is the better wartime government for most AIs in most situations, especially with the tweaks we've already made in the AU Mod. Still, it would probably be beneficial to the AIs if either they didn't have to research an extra tech to get it or the tech had enough value to human players that AIs could more easily get something useful from us in trade.

[Catt]

I don't think it's an issue that is addressable by the AU Mod, but I'd like to see AIs more willing to embrace Communism. I've seen numerous instances of AI empires that would undoubtedly benefit from Communism but that settle on Fascism without fail.

Catt

[Madine]

When I was looking through the editor, I noticed that Communism and Feudalism showed up alot as "shunned" governments. I didn't get a count though.

[Ision]

Nathan and Alex,

Here’s a radical idea I would like to toss out.......

We all agree that early industrial is 'usually' the point were the human player establishes dominance - and we have all pointed towards 2 primary reasons: the ToE leap and the AI Nationalism beeline....

what if:

We were to give Fascism or Communism (divided evenly among the CIVs) as a starting tech to every CIV? Once the AIs research Nationalism - Commie or Fasci are free. If you consider that Fascism is a recent addition that did not even exist in PTW, the change may not be as radical as it first appears.

I believe that this would help the AI far more than the human. Also, it would help 'subdue' the effect of a successful human ToE - and lastly, it will help re-introduce Communist AIs into the game....

What do you think? Too radical? Downsides I am not accounting for?

Ision

[vulture]

For the small wonder idea:

Can we create a new city improvement that has absolutely no effect whatsoever, but is required in order to build police stations. This new improvement requires a resource that never appears on the map, so can never be built. Then the small wonder that costs 1 shield gives a free one of these buildings in every city on the map, thus enabling police stations to be built anywhere once the required tech is discovered.

Does this work?

[alexman]

Ision, that IS radical. I'm not sure how to give a free government tech that's available only if you research another tech first (Nationalism). I don't think it's possible. What would prevent me from becoming a Fascist at 4000 BC?

vulture, the problem with your idea is that Small Wonders cannot give one of something to every city. Only Great Wonders can do that.

[Madine]

How about this:

1. Change nationalism to be required.

2. Make nationalism a pre-req for industrialization.

3. Move communism gov to industrialization.

4. Move police stations to Facism.

5. Get rid of Communism tech.

6. Change the pre-req of Facism to industrialization.

7. Move SPHQ to industrialization.

8. Move espionage HQ to nationalism.

9. Get rid of espionage tech.

[nbarclay]

Madine, that would tear the feel of the early industrial era completely to shreds!

I don't view the way things are now as particularly broken, and I do agree with Alexman that the most conservative thing we can do is nothing. A minor tweak or two could probably help the AIs compete a little better, but I don't think radical surgery can be justified.

Nathan

[Nor Me]

It seems to me that the totalitarianism idea is more sensible and far less radical than most of those discussed so far in this thread.

I've noticed that one of the disadvantages of the current AI research priorities is that the AI is quite likely to skip both Communism and Fascism especially if only one or two AIs are contributing significantly to research. This tends to happen when most of the AIs are engaged in war as is common at that time.

If Fascism isn't better than Monarchy most of the time then we haven't met the current AU Mod aims on goverment. The AI could do with having at least one of the two goverments relatively quickly compared with getting Democracy and MPPs. A totalitarianism tech means that it could do this while being fair to the two goverments and not wasting too much time on researching optional techs.

I'm not sure how to give a free government tech that's available only if you research another tech first (Nationalism). I don't think it's possible. What would prevent me from becoming a Fascist at 4000 BC?

While I wouldn't support the idea, if Fascism were given to all civs as an extra tech wile still being in the industrial era, then all civs would get it as soon as they entered the industrial age.

[ducki]

While I wouldn't support the idea, if Fascism were given to all civs as an extra tech wile still being in the industrial era, then all civs would get it as soon as they entered the industrial age.

Could we make it a No Age tech(like Jesse did to Radio) but make it require Communism?