AU501 - DAR1: 4000BC-2150BC

[Aeson]

Start low and end high would probably mean that the situation changed. Nobody starts low and expects to raise the tax rate later on, it's just a decision to go for a tech at 50 turns that later is changed due to something unforseen.

One example that happens fairly often in my games is starting out (after Pottery) on Writing or Alphabet at 50 turns. Then I find out that I'm all alone on an island, so boost research to get off the island ASAP. There are other times I find neighbors, and instead use the cash I've saved up to get in the tech trading loop, and just finish out the 50 turns.

I normally run a very high unit/city ratio early on (mostly Workers), and high luxury rate, so the cash I save up while researching low often helps me catch back up to where I would be anyways. This often rears it's head in the Middle ages, where I need some cash ASAP for a trade or upgrade. So I run a high tax rate for a few turns then boost research again. This can happen at the beginning or end of a research cycle and often allows you to keep a 4 turn tech rate where you are losing cash 3 of the 4 turns. In such a case it's actually best to take the cash first, as either way 4 turns is the earliest you can get the tech. Requires a lot of calculating though.

Other times that researching low (or non-existant) early and then raising later can pay off is right before you will complete significant (and/or numerous) Libraries and Universities.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Aeson
Other times that researching low (or non-existant) early and then raising later can pay off is right before you will complete significant (and/or numerous) Libraries and Universities.

This actually goes to my point... when I am in (mostly) ANY situation where during the course of researching a given tech I know that my aggregate bpt will be increasing dramatically on a percentage basis, I will start low and and raise to high when that increase has taken place.

OK, kids, get ready for my AARs...

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Aeson
Nobody starts low and expects to raise the tax rate later on...

Actually, many players do do this, which is why I commented on it in the first place.

The common misconception is as follows: if the game says 50 turns whether my Science is at 10% or at 100%, I may as well put it at 10% and adjust upward later, since 10% and 100% give me the same research rate. Like I said, the problem is with thinking in terms of how long the game tells you it's going to take, instead of how many Beakers you need.

This has nothing to do with the 50-turn gambit, although it probably confuses the matter even further.


Dominae

[Theseus]

AU Mod, Emperor

Like many, I settled on the spot, raced for Pottery, irrigated toward the cow, built non-military, and lucked out with a Settler from the hut, which became Adrianapole, which will build Warriors for MPs.

On the completion of Pottery, research Writing, at only 20% for the moment, later 90% as more towns are in place. A pre-build in Constantinople gets a Granary done almost right away, and then Settlers and Caesarea and Nicaea built next, and both set immediately to Curraughs. Realized it was an island pretty quickly, so decided to jam towns in , with the expectation that some, as to be determined , would later be treated as camps and disbanded.

Two Warriors sent up the mountains to gain experience with Barbs, lost one. Waiting till more units in place before popping the marsh hut.

In 2190 BC I get my first Curraugh out and meet Toku, who, after trades, is waaaay ahead of me with The Wheel, Warrior Code, and Mysticism. Hut lucky or in contact with someone else, the rotten b*stard. That alone earns my hatred (well, Samurais have something to with it to), and I paint a target on the sonuvabee-yatch.

At this point I think to check the space race via F10 to view who the opponents are... hmm, interesting. Good opponents for a seafaring epic! On that note, btw, thanks again for getting this set up... it's already a LOT of fun!

So, in 2150 BC:
5 towns with 7 pop
1 Settler
2 Workers
6 Warriors
1 Curraugh

[ducki]

Originally posted by Dominae
The common misconception is as follows: if the game says 50 turns whether my Science is at 10% or at 100%, I may as well put it at 10% and adjust upward later, since 10% and 100% give me the same research rate. Like I said, the problem is with thinking in terms of how long the game tells you it's going to take, instead of how many Beakers you need.

That's exactly what I've been trying to say, and doing a damn poor job of it; in particular, MWIA's language prompted me to speak up, since it was of the "might as well settle for" type 50-turn @ 10% - at least, that's how I heard it.

I am glad I argued it, though, as I've learned a lot more by opening my ignorant mouth and letting the vets give me some schoolin' than t'other way 'round. Thanks guys!


Edit: Nice start, Theseus - I wish I'd been able to convince myself to go even tighter than I did, though I still had a lot of sharing problems later on and quite a few towns working sea/coast tiles almost exclusively so my powerhouses could have the "good" tiles.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Whoops! Let me start this off by repeating how apathetic I felt when I started the game - I didn't want to have this AU slip away from me, after making so much noise about wanting it recently, but when I started I just hadn't the heart or interest to think things through properly.

I started with Writing as I was tired enough to have forgotten my recent lesson, and one that has proven very successful for me to - Pottery and early Granaries first. The reason I chose Writing was because I knew Alphabet and Writing are two of the more valuable techs to have to trade with first up, and I suspected I would meet at least one civ early on.

I started with 20% science (the minimum whilst still researching) because I knew that it would be quite some time before I needed Writing (quite some time before contacting another civ) and I knew that I would be unlikely to raise my trade sufficiently in most of that time for a higher rate to be of much benefit in reducing the time from 50 turns anyway. 20-25 turns later on I noticed that I could have started to do better - but by then I reckoned it was worth more to get the gold for trading with: I did NOT reckon on the civs I contacted early being so stingy with techs for my gold.

Next failures: I did not, upon discovering my gold was worth little for trades, earmark it for Sword or Horsemen upgrades, and thus I ended up switching to 100% after I got Writing and just starting to whittle away at my coffers to maintain that rate with later techs. When I realised later it was there for just that purpose, I had not built Warriors or Chariots for the task.

What you could say I have learned even thusfar - nothing new. All my failures (but for the damn bad hut luck) were things I had learned in the past - now I find it hard to believe I did not start with Pottery at 100%, I cannot believe I forgot about Curraghs until I founded a coast city well advanced into the game, and I cannot believe I missed the chance to upgrade Warriors with cash, something I have done in every game for many months now.

I will now go and reread everyone's comments and, with my brain in gear now, try to respond in a way that was far more intelligent than my gameplay to date.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Wow. Having now read almost all of the above, I am glad I sparked off such good debate. But this is pure serendipity, as it was my sheer idiocy that led to this.

I have since noticed two more mistakes of mine that, every other game, I have not made. I did not push for a settler pump ANYWHERE for quite some time, and I did not even solve those few simultaneous equations that are so easy early on in the game to ensure no food or shields are wasted...

And now I am thinking a little more properly, I may as well add my POV to the thread: as I have only played as high as Monarch, it is as my general rule best to start with 100% research, as a few extra turns of 1-3 gold will not make much difference at any stage of the game. After scouting a little more and growth to 2 or 3 in your capital, you will be able to see the effects of the slider much better (even without figuring out the beaker costs), and decide whether you will be able to make enough beakers for a high rate to be your best option or not. It is at this point you can make a proper informed decision.

Lastly, I have to say that so far I am failing AU501 through sheer lack of thought - perhaps I'm not cut out for the cut and thrust. Is there going to be an Apolyton Polytechnic or Apolyton Hairdressing School I would be better suited for?

[Theseus]

AU Chicken Farming?

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Theseus

AU Chicken Farming?

Whoa there! Steady on.... Maybe I'm up to chicken HERDING, but I don't really know if the intense multidisciplinary demands of Chicken farming is quite within my grasp yet.

[Arrian]

THE CHICKENS WILL RISE AGAIN! [/Gathering Storm]

-Arrian, who should probably finish this game, huh?

[Master Zen]

I hear the AU cafeteria has got job openings...

(AU fried chicken... yum )

-MZ, who should probably finish the game also, huh?

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Master Zen
I hear the AU cafeteria has got job openings...

(AU fried chicken... yum )

-MZ, who should probably finish the game also, huh?

Heathen.

AU has firm policies against frying chickens and bearded women.

[SirOsis]

How about frying women and bearded chickens?

They should be allowed certainly.

[conmcb25]

Quick Highlights:

2850-Japanese Contact and Pottery plus ten gold for alphabet

2650-Sumerian Contact_ Nothing out of them

2350-Found a Hittite Explorer and purchased Warrior Code for 130.

I decided to move my capitol to an "oceanview" and take advantage of extra commerce and early curraghs.

I have three curraghs built and have explored much of the assuming I would have to conquer or settle a nearby island sooner or later.

My research has been at 10% to 20% because it is NOT changing the speed of tech research to go higher at this point. Im storing up gold in hopes of trading with whoever I meet with my early curraghs

Im a bit behind in REX but have a granary in the capitol and plan on doing spearman/settler till I fill the island.

I need a POP pump, probably for workers, this is probably my biggest area of neglect right now.

Im doing this one for fun! Stock game and monarch.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Dominae


Actually, many players do do this, which is why I commented on it in the first place.

The common misconception is as follows: if the game says 50 turns whether my Science is at 10% or at 100%, I may as well put it at 10% and adjust upward later, since 10% and 100% give me the same research rate. Like I said, the problem is with thinking in terms of how long the game tells you it's going to take, instead of how many Beakers you need.

This has nothing to do with the 50-turn gambit, although it probably confuses the matter even further.


Dominae

Ok what should you do?

How would you calculate the amount of turns needed, and why is the screen wrong or is it?