AU Mod: The Explorer

[alexman]

The Problem

The Explorer unit comes at a time when most of the World is already known to some civilization, and therefore the World Map is usually one technology away (Navigation) from being known to everyone.

As a result, Explorers are not usually being built as scouts, which was their intended purpose, but as pillaging units that can move deep inside enemy land.

In addition, the AI is programmed not to build any units flagged exclusively for scouting, so it can't take advantage of the Explorer, even in the rare cases when it provides a benefit.

Possible Solutions

1. Move the unit to Theology. Just two technologies into the medieval Age, there should still be some land left to explore at that time. There would be a good reason to discover your continent with explorers, since Map Trading doesn't come until Navigation. An earlier scout would provide a meaningful upgrade path for the Spanish, who would still get their Conquistador at Astronomy.
2. Increase attack and defense to 1. Perhaps give a HP penalty, so that regular Explorers have just 1HP. Much like the Chasqui Scout, this would enable the unit to be flagged as offensive for the AI, which would build some of them and harrass humans who tend to leave their interior cities undefended.

So what do you think? Does the Explorer deserve some attention? Would the above proposal help the AI, or would it make the unit too powerful? Please share your ideas!

[Stuie]

(Note that I usually play on continents)

Problem is, even with moving it to an earlier tech the home continent is usually explorered by the end of the Ancient Age. Exploring other continents is where the Explorer would add value, but by the time you reach them you usually have the ability to trade maps.

I guess option 2 would give them some sort of utility, even if it doesn't make a ton of sense.

[Kuciwalker]

Remove the pillage ability.

[Dominae]

Neither option strikes me as particularly interesting (sorry): there's no reason to put it at Theology other than it's simply earlier in the tech tree, and letting the AI build a 1-power ATAR unit for offense will not exactly help it out.

How about making them available at Map Making instead?


Dominae

[alexman]

We have to be careful not to diminish the value of the Expansionist trait by giving an uber-scout to everyone.

The AI would not build many 1-strength Explorers, but it would build some. Just like it builds some Guerillas when it has rubber. Not many. And the AI doesn't suicide its units mindlessly when it has better options. An AI ATAR unit would definitely tend to try to capture workers and pillage at your rear, if possible, rather than attack cities. Humans tend to leave their rear undefended much more than the AI, so this would help the AI.

You need a reason for Theology? OK, how about missionary explorers?

[pvzh]

I would suggest 1/1/1 ATR cost 20 (as it now) and no HP penalty (as long as it is in Middle Ages). I used that in Age of Discovery (not the stock one obviously).

Explorer has a cool combat graphics : their are fencing with they rapier (or sword?).

[nbarclay]

I don't like the idea of giving Explorers an attack value. Even "undefended" cities would have police forces, probably high-ranking civilians and possibly retired soldiers with weapons, and civilians with makeshift weapons (and probably some real weapons). So the ability for a band of explorers to walk in and say, "We're taking over," strikes me as fundamentally wrong.

I'm also highly skeptical of how well AIs would use Explorers' pillaging ability if they built them. Spending a 20-shield unit to deprive an enemy of a vital resource or maybe to cut a militarily important road link can be a good investment, but throwing away twenty shields just to waste a little time for enemy workers is another matter entirely. Unless AIs would pillage worthwhile targets and avoid wasting explorers pillaging targets that aren't worthwhile, I think their shields are better spent in some other way. For that matter, if explorers are built but can't find a worthwhile target to pillage, they are a waste of shields.

Nathan

[nbarclay]

One possibility might be to move Exporers to Engineering on the premise that Engineering brings with it some additional surveying skills. That would bring them into play after Expansionists get their main advantage but still in time to be potentially useful for exploring overseas.

[alexman]

I like the Engineering idea.

However, I don't like the idea of strengthening a unit that the AI doesn't build, so I would prefer to also add 1 to their attack/defense, so the AI takes advantage of the change.

[ZargonX]

I think the main problem is that there just isn't a niche for the explorer to fill. Make it much earlier in the tech tree, and you cheapen expansionist. Any later, and you probably know the entire map already. Even at its current time, as pointed out, there isn't much for an explorer to explore.

That said, I don't think I like the idea of giving them an A/D value, for much the reasons nbarclay pointed out. Perhaps engineering is the solution, but maybe someone else has some great idea boiling in the back of their mind

[ducki]

If the explorer was a combo scout-settler-worker type unit, even at it's normal tech, it _might_ be nominally useful for settling those distant islands, finding the best spot on the island, roading the needed resource/luxury, and founding a town.
At least, it would be so for the player.
I don't know how the AI would handle a fast-moving settler than can work it's tiles before settling.

Anyway, maybe just make it a fastmover-settler.
Or give it the ability to see farther than an army, making it useful in battle to some extent - but then it's not an explorer, it's a military scout - which might be a better route for this unit.

Like ZargonX said, there's really not a niche for this unit. We either need to carve one out, change the nature of the unit, nerf Expansionist by stealing its power, or ensure that all AU courses are configured such that there's still (worthwhile) exploring to be done when this unit comes along.

Change the nature of the unit sounds extreme, but I think it will prove to be less of a change than anything else (except for forcing our course creators to jump through hoops).

Additionally, when you make a useless unit worth building, it's not going to feel stock no matter how little you change. It'll be like a whole new unit since so few of us ever build it. For that reason, let's not be afraid to go a little further with this one. That or just ignore the stupid thing(which I've been doing for some time now. )

[donZappo]

I like the idea moving the explorer up to Theology along with added offensive/defensive stats to it to ensure that the AI builds it. The one thing that I'm leary of is the AI building these units when it could be building far more important units. I don't know how the AI decides which unit to build in order to fill it's "offensive quota" of units. If it would just build a handful of this weaker unit, that seems alright to me. But, at the same time, if it builds a significant stockpile of them as opposed to knights, then that would put the AI at a distinct disadvantage against a human player.

Also, if the explorer was given an offensive/defensive value would the AI use them to explore at all, or would it only use it for military purposes? I know that you can combine flags in the editor (at least I *think* you can) but I don't know what the AI will do with a unit if it flagged as both "scouting" and "offensive." I'd hate for this unit to become greatly different from its intended purpose since this would strike me as a big change from the stock rules.

Overall I prefer Alexman's second proposal but am afraid that it would actually end up weaking the AI or changing the game too drastically.

-donZappo

[geniemalin]

Rather than giving it offensive ability, could you mod it to have a greater visual range, or is visual range fixed for land units? If it could see, for example, 3 squares, it could be a good 'military scout' unit to help check the disposition of enemy forces as well as enabling very quick exploration of any unmapped regions.

[nbarclay]

Here's something to think about: if we give the Explorer an offensive capability, what happens when someone who isn't used to playing the mod has a city five tiles behind his front lines taken when he didn't even realize that such a thing could happen? In terms of "feel of the game," especially for people who aren't good about reading readme files (or who don't remember the change or don't catch its implications), I can't think of anything we've ever done with the AU Mod that could come as a nastier surprise. And that's doubly (or triply) true if the AI could take two or three cities at once instead of just one.

Edit: It could also come as an equally nasty shock to someone who knows about the change and understands its implications perfectly in theory but who forgets to adjust for it or misses a possible attack route when the time comes in a particular game.

Nathan

[alexman]

I just thought of an idea that requires no change to the Explorer unit, but makes it more useful, as well as useable by the AI.

Create a new Small Wonder, called "Cyril and Methodius Mission", available at Monotheism, which spawns an explorer every 10 turns. The actual explorer unit would still become available with Astronomy.

Perhaps this Wonder could be Feudalism-specific (although it would then have to be called something else - Boniface's Mission?), so that we kill two birds with one stone (Explorer and Feudalism). You would then have extra motivation to switch to Feudalism if you've reached the Middle Ages and your empire is still behind in exploration and expansion.