AU mod: The Jaguar Warrior

[lockstep]

I can live with shield costs (general, not for the JW) of 10, 20 and even 15. But 12 is ridiculous.

NO.

(And that doesn't mean that I don't want another vote regarding shield costs of 10.)

[ZargonX]

Nope

[Dominae]

Between 12 and 15, I vote 15.

Between 15 and 10, I vote 10 (although this depends on our efforts concerning the Chasqui Scout).


Dominae

[Theseus]

10

[Stuie]

Yes to 12.

[Nor Me]

I don't think a cost change is necessary on it's own. But I don't care very much and will tactically vote yes because I'd like to see the warrior disabled for the aztecs and that's more likely if we vote the JW to be cheap.

So yes to 12 or 10.

[Zero]

I vote 10.

Even if you threaten to reset to PTW civ trait, Id rather have 10 shield JW back. Making it 15 just doesnt feel like a UU. Like someone said, UUs are supposed to be better than a generic unit, not an alternative as it is now.

I think Aztec's uniquesness and strength comes from the fact that they have pseudo-3rd traits at a price of good attacking/defending UU. AD1/1 unit isnt really a threat in high difficulty. Im no expert civ player, but i only get moderate success with jags in regent/monarch and Aztecs count on whatever early dominance they can get because they wont experience large boost in GA/UU as other civs.

In single player, whatever cities/territories/boost you get from early warmongering with jags exponentially increases in time to match just about perfectly timed GA with good units IMO.

[alexman]

From the above discussion, restoring the PTW stats to the Jaguar Warrior is a popular solution. Therefore, the following proposal is now under consideration:

Yes/No: Reduce the cost of Jaguar Warrior to 10 shields and remove the prerequisite of Warrior Code. Also, remove ability of Aztecs to build regular Warriors.

[Theseus]

Yes.

[Dominae]

Yes.

Could we perhaps make them upgrade to Medieval Infantry instead of Swordsmen?


Dominae

[Stuie]

Originally posted by alexman

Yes/No: Reduce the cost of Jaguar Warrior to 10 shields and remove the prerequisite of Warrior Code. Also, remove ability of Aztecs to build regular Warriors.

Yes.

[alexman]

Originally posted by Dominae
Could we perhaps make them upgrade to Medieval Infantry instead of Swordsmen?

Why do you suggest that? I don't see an obvious reason.

By the way, I still don't like the idea of reducing the cost of the Jaguar. Militaristic+Argicultural+Ancient UU is already strong enough.

Compare to the Chasqui scout. It costs 15 (in the AU mod) and it has the same stats. The increased movement on highlands balances the terrible upgrade path to Explorer and the fact that the Incas are not militaristic so there will be fewer veteran Chasquis running around.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by alexman
Why do you suggest that? I don't see an obvious reason.

In order to balance the Aztecs. Not being able to use Swordsmen in the Ancient era should couterbalance the Agr. + Mil. + Ancient UU combo you're talking about.

To tell you the truth, I'm moving toward the fence concerning this issue. And with all other things being equal, I prefer not changing anything. Therefore I might change my vote from Yes to No in the next couple of days...

Compare to the Chasqui scout. It costs 15 (in the AU mod) and it has the same stats. The increased movement on highlands balances the terrible upgrade path to Explorer and the fact that the Incas are not militaristic so there will be fewer veteran Chasquis running around.

This is why we need to improve the Chasqui Scout! It's a bad unit people, plain and simple!


Dominae

[pvzh]

What are you talking about? Ancient UU as advantage?
1. The fact that it is "ancient" is LIABILITY, not an ASSET because of despotic golden age.
2. It is not battle worthy. 1 attack, 1 defence? Come on... Is it immortal or legionary whose strength overweight despotic GA? Whom are you going to kill with jags?

All advantage of jags is fast contacts and some early map knowledge. To be useful in this it needs to be cheap like 10. (I would not bother with 12).

PS. Make Chasqui 10 as well. They do not upgrades to swordsmen.

[alexman]

A despotic GA is a huge advantage if you are going to rush your neighbor. You don't even need to use the Jaguars, you can use any other unit.