The Dromon Upgrade Path

[nbarclay]

One of the great unique strategic challenges for the Byzantines under the standard rules is deciding how many Dromons to keep as Dromons and how many to upgrade to caravels or, later, galleons. With proper planning, a Byzantine player who wants to can build a fleet of Dromons before Astonomy, not upgrade any of them, and have a nice fleet of powerful naval attackers until Magnetism. (Consider, especially, the possibility of operating the Dromons in groups in order to reduce casualties.) Then, as frigates are built, the Dromons can be upgraded to galleons. Or a less offensive-minded Byzantine player can upgrade most of the Dromons to caravels and do without most of the naval firepower advantage Dromons provide through the rest of the medieval era. It's an interesting strategic choice. For that matter, the need to plan ahead and figure out how many Dromons will be desired for the rest of the medieval era before Astronomy also has some rather interesting strategic dimensions.

If I were part of the original C3C design team, I would likely favor Player1's approach over the way Dromons are currently implemented. The question of how to balance building Dromons against building galleys and caravels is also a strategically interesting one (at least with the cost of Dromons increased), and there are advantages to not having Dromons become obsolete until a regular unit with similar firepower becomes available. But I don't view the difference as big enough to be worth changing the rules for after the fact; at least not in what is supposed to be a conservative mod.

Nathan

[alexman]

Good discussion, but no new proposals. Therefore, let's mark the above proposed change as under consideration. Voting in a week.

[ducki]

What is under consideration? The Original Post(with the addition of Byantium being able to build Galleys AND Dromons) or player1's modification?

Just making sure, since I didn't see any clear and definite "Proposal".

[alexman]

The latter.

The original proposal was from 2003, and didn't receive much support.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by nbarclay
One of the great unique strategic challenges for the Byzantines under the standard rules is deciding how many Dromons to keep as Dromons and how many to upgrade to caravels or, later, galleons. With proper planning, a Byzantine player who wants to can build a fleet of Dromons before Astonomy, not upgrade any of them, and have a nice fleet of powerful naval attackers until Magnetism. (Consider, especially, the possibility of operating the Dromons in groups in order to reduce casualties.) Then, as frigates are built, the Dromons can be upgraded to galleons. Or a less offensive-minded Byzantine player can upgrade most of the Dromons to caravels and do without most of the naval firepower advantage Dromons provide through the rest of the medieval era. It's an interesting strategic choice. For that matter, the need to plan ahead and figure out how many Dromons will be desired for the rest of the medieval era before Astronomy also has some rather interesting strategic dimensions.

If I were part of the original C3C design team, I would likely favor Player1's approach over the way Dromons are currently implemented. The question of how to balance building Dromons against building galleys and caravels is also a strategically interesting one (at least with the cost of Dromons increased), and there are advantages to not having Dromons become obsolete until a regular unit with similar firepower becomes available. But I don't view the difference as big enough to be worth changing the rules for after the fact; at least not in what is supposed to be a conservative mod.

Nathan

Once again, I have to chime in in total support of Nathan (I am committed to a program of oscillating support ).

What to do with your Dromons, and your related build plan, is one of the most stark strategic decisions in the game.

And I like it.

[alexman]

Time to vote. We have 48 hours.

Yes/No:

• Increase cost of Dromon to 40 shields.
• Dromon upgrades to Frigate.
• Byzantines are allowed to build Galleys.

[ZargonX]

Don't mess with the Byz

1. No
2. No
3. No

[nbarclay]

No. (My interpretation is that this is a single package, since, for example, allowing the Byzantines to build galleys would be nonsensical in the absence of one or both of the other changes.)

[alexman]

Yes, it's a package.
(I usually number each item, with a separate Yes/No question for each, if they are not a package)

Still thinking about my vote.

[lockstep]

YES

[alexman]

No from me.
I like the idea, but not enough to justify a change.

[Stuie]

No.

[Theseus]

Nope.

[Nor Me]

No.