AU mod: Cavalry

[Dominae]

However, a cost reduction of ten could be in order.

That would mean they cost the same as Knights, which in turn means no upgrade cost...

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Dominae
That would mean they cost the same as Knights, which in turn means no upgrade cost...

I don't know if this would be desirable, but I know that a lot of people were willing to accept zero upgrade costs regarding the suggested Light Cavalry - Cavalry upgrade.

[Harovan]

Leave the cost where it is. A 5.3.3 unit should not cost the same as a 4.3.2 unit. The 3-movement alone is powerful enough to justify the higher price, even more since it's a stock unit and not an UU like the Rider.

[Jaguar]

Cavalry are really only 10 more cost than knights? I always thought it was 20.

[ducki]

This might be too radical or maybe unimplementable, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

What if Cavalry required a new improvement? Stables. Kind of like barracks for training soldiers, but for training mounted soldiers. Required in given city for building Cavalry. No upkeep.

This might postpone when the human could get a large cavalry force in the field, shortening the time he's able to take undue advantage of the AI when beelining for MilTrad.

Just a thought, like I said, maybe too radical, maybe not implementable, but since I don't know anything about the editor, I'll let you guys shoot it down.

[Kuciwalker]

I don't think you can do that

[Jaguar]

I know you can't do that.

[ducki]

Yeah, I was afraid of that. Mostly I threw the idea out there in hopes it would inspire someone else that actually knows the editor. Just trying to provide a spark, really.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by ducki
This might be too radical or maybe unimplementable, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

What if Cavalry required a new improvement? Stables. Kind of like barracks for training soldiers, but for training mounted soldiers. Required in given city for building Cavalry. No upkeep.

This might postpone when the human could get a large cavalry force in the field, shortening the time he's able to take undue advantage of the AI when beelining for MilTrad.

Just a thought, like I said, maybe too radical, maybe not implementable, but since I don't know anything about the editor, I'll let you guys shoot it down.

Actually this could be done, but it would require more than an editor fix. It would require creating a new building improvement, and creating new files and such. Not impossible, but difficult and clearly outside the scope of the AU mod. (personally I feel it should be available with Horseback Riding, and should be reqired for all horse units, if implemented. )

[EnduringBlue]

I've played a game on the same map with both types of
cavalry. (although I haven't used the two-stage, free-upgrade approach). My competitive game extended further beyond Military Tradition with Inept Cavalry. There's a difference, but it's not incredible.

(For the record, games had no sipahi or cossacks)

In my view anything that makes me think more and not automate my world dominance quite so early is an improvement, even if incremental. late game repetitiveness is my mortal enemy.

I realize this subject has been beaten to death, but i would also say that it is inherent Civ philosophy that each unit has a unique appearance, so if the two stage approach is used, then the two units should be yellow banana/blue banana.

[sabrewolf]

one thing pro-new-unit is the fact that the elite status gets lost when upgrading. so it's a tradeoff between strength and leader-chances. i for example don't upgrade my elite swordsmen until guerilla... just for the sake of that extra elite victory.

in the horse-path the proposals make this choice harder going from knight (attack 4), light cavalry (5) to cavalry (6) ...

it does add a new strategic option to the game - which the AUmod is all about.
but then again, it changes maybe too much.

[nbarclay]

Revisiting the Cossack

I was just looking at the situation with the Cossack, and I think we need to revisit it. Cossacks have a cost of 90 compared with 80 for conventional cavalry, and to the best of my knowledge, their only advantage is their blitz capability. One of the quirks of blitz is that its value depends heavily on the relative strength of attackers and defenders: the greater the relative strength of an attacker, the more likely it is to be healthy enough to attack a second time the same turn. By reducing the attack strength of cavalry and Cossacks from six to five, we dramatically reduced the Cossack's margin of superiority, and thus significantly reduced the value of its blitz attribute. Yet the Cossack still costs more than cavalry.

I would suggest that we either reduce the Cossack's cost back to 80 to match conventional cavalry or bring the Cossack's attack value back up to six. In the latter case, the Cossack would be 6.3.3, cost 90, with blitz vs. the Sipahi's 7.3.3, cost 100, without blitz, which would, for better or for worse, give Russia one of the better UUs in the game.

By the way, if our plan to revamp armies is approved, the lower value of armies would cut into the value of blitz for leader generation for armies a bit. That would present an even stronger argument for either reducing the Cossack's cost or giving it back its lost attack value.

[Theseus]

You know, I haven't played the Russians or the Ottomans much, due to my suspicion that overpowered Cavs would be too tempting to use in an all out rout of the AI civs...

I'd be in favor of Nathan's suggestion, though (I think, and could be swayed otherwise ).

[player1]

I would also point that AU Siphai has 40% better attack then Cavalry compared to original C3C Siphai (33%).

Shouldn't it be reduced to attack of 6, which will still give nice 20% bonus, but since it's lower then original, with reduction of cost to 90shields.

Compared to 5/3/3/80 Cavalry, 6/3/3/90 for Siphai seems balanced.

[sabrewolf]

imho the sipahi should then cost the same much as normal cavalry. most units that a 1 "anything" better than the original cost the same.
mainly über units like GS, NM or some early warrior/scout-replacements cost more.

same for the new cossack (nathan's proposal).

5,3,3/80 cavalry
5,3,3+blitz/80 cossack
6,3,3/80 sipahi