AU209 DAR4: Contact with all other civs

[Dominae]

This DAR thread is dedicated to the interval between DAR3 and the point at which you (finally) gain contact with all the other civs in the game.

[PeaSoup]

775BC
2 Carthage gallies approach my coast, an invasion perhaps? There's no way I can hold off an invasion, all will be lost if Carthage decides to invade now.

750Bc
I'm the first civ on my continent to discover Literature. Moscow, with 5 shields/turn and a 46 shield temple prebuild will take 71 turns to complete the GL. After some nervious laughter, I wisely decided to trade Literature away.

Ottomans:
Got Code of Laws for Literature, 4gpt and 165gold

Carthage:
Got Mathematics and 40 gold for Code of Laws

Japan:
Got Polytheism and 48 gold for Code of Laws and Literature

Started researching Republic at 10%

690BC
Carthage builds the hanging gardens

Ottomans lost 2 size 1 cities, the war may be nearing an end

650BC
Both Carthage and Japan have entered the middle age, I still lack construction and currency

570BC
Carthage demands territory map and 31 gold, once again, I give in. Hannibal will pay one day!

530BC
Japan demands territory map and 32 gold, oh boy, I got Japan's number..

350BC
German builds the great library, I wonder what's been happening on the other continent

210BC
Japan:
Got Wines, 3gpt, 6 gold for gems

Carthage:
Got Silks, Sices and 2gpt for furs

70BC
Carthage captures Istanbul along with pyramids and great wall, Ottomans have lost 3 cities to Carthage and 2 to Japan.

50BC
Ottomans:
got construction and currency for 882 gold, hopefully Ottomans can use the gold to hold Carthage and Japan back. Moved onto middle age and got monotheism for free

50AD
Researched Republic, started revolution. Researching Feudalism next

90AD
Revolution ended, republic formed

170AD
Carthage builds Sun Tzu's

230AD
Carthage demanded territory map and 67 gold, I refuse and called his bluff. Carthage remains Gracious.

300AD
Stole Theology from Japan for 704 gold, researching Education in 40 turns

Carthage:
Got Feudalism, Horses and 32 gold for Theology

Ottomans:
Got ROP, Engineering, worker and 12 gold for Theology and Iron

330AD
Japan declared war on Carthage! Boy, do these guys hate each other or what? Time to mass build warriors then upgrade to MI when my iron deal with Ottomans runs out. Carthage is going down!

Stole Invention from Carthage for 650 gold. Traded to Ottomans for 9 gold and world map.

Ottomans are down to 3 cities, Carthage is ruthless, lets see how Japan fairs against them.

390AD
Stole Gunpowder from Japan for 740 gold

Carthage:
Got 2 workers, 23gpt and 9 gold for Gunpowder

Ottomans:
Got Monarchy and 22 gold for Gunpowder

500AD
Iron deal with Ottomans has run out. Signed ROP and got 1gpt and 14 gold

Upgraded 27 warrior to MI for 1620 gold

510AD
Carthage and Ottomans sign peace treaty. Ottomans are down to their last city and have been banished to the horse island

[PeaSoup]

590AD
Declared war on Carthage, it is time Hannibal paid for his past crimes against Russia!

600AD
Captured Sulcis, a size 6 city. Lost 4 MIs against AI's 3 defenders (2 muskets, 1 longbow, 1 catapult)

Japan (now gracious):
Signed ROP
Got Silks for 4gpt and 100 gold
Got Spices for 11gpt and 6 gold

610AD
Captured Hippo (size 12), Lost 2 Mis against (3 muskets, 1 longbow, 2 catapults)

650AD
I didn't find them, they found us..
Rest of the civs are: England, Germany, France and Babylon

Bought world map from France for my world map, 7gpt and 20 gold

Yay! Russia is in last place, more tough times ahead.

[PeaSoup]

Dispite having a sizeable military, I'm still weak compared to the crippled Carthage. Thanks Japan!

[Tall Stranger]

At the end of my last post, I had begun a war with Carthage (somewhere around the 30 AD timeframe). Based on Carthage's great position and my own weak culture, I decided from the beginning that this war would only end with the complete destruction of the civ. For that reason, I worked especially hard to keep the Ottomans and Japanese happy with me, trading techs and luxuries as much as possible.

War plan was fairly routine. I intended for Carthage to be the last city to fall, so focused the bulk of my army on the 4 cities to its east, while using my galley to transport forces to the other side of the city to seize the 5 cities to its West. Outcome was never really in doubt, but it took longer than I had hoped. If memory serves, the war didn't end until the 500AD timeframe. I was getting pretty frustrated by the end, since I had put off building the FP (wanted it in Carthage) and wasn't getting any GLs. Finally, generated it in the 400AD timeframe, and held on to it until Hannibal's final defeat. Rushed the FP and spent the next 300-400 years at peace, building the temples, libraries, etc. that I had been neglecting.

Here's where my list of dates resumes, so I can be a bit more detailed. As I approached the 800AD timeframe, I began to get ready for the next push, this time against the Ottomans. After getting gunpowder and looking at the Ottomans' map, I realized that their sole source of saltpeter was just north of Antalya, 2 cities north of our shared border. My plan was a quick war aimed at seizing Antalya and thus depriving Osman of his dreaded Sipahi. Therefore, three cities were on the blocks: Sinop and Aydin (the two Ottoman cities on my border) and the ultimate goal Antalya.

In 920, the war began. Had good luck early on, seizing Sinop (easternmost border town right next to the horses), but had trouble with Aydin, which was surrounded by hills which made my Med Inf unhappy. Finally seized Aydin in a rough battle in 1000, while moving a healthy force of musketmen, knights and Med Inf to the hills directly south of the saltpeter and directly west of Antalya. At the end of my turn, I saw what I had most feared: the first two Ottoman Sipahi. Fortunately, they attacked my forces stationed in Aydin, one dying, the other succeeding.

When 1010 began, I was really worried. Failure to seize Antalya now could be really bad. If the Sipahi started wiping out my assault force, I'd be in big trouble. Heck of a battle: I lost several knights and a couple of Med Inf, but was making progress. The kicker: my last knight fell having dropped their last musketman from 2 hp to 1. Time for a tough call. I had brought 3 musketmen as a defensive force, but decided to use them offensively. Sent my elite against his sole defender, and was handily beaten (of course promoting the defender). Down to 2 units, I sent another at him and succeeded. Antalya fell in 1010. One problem: the saltpeter is not within the new city limit. I therefore sent the final unit to the saltpeter, hoping there would be no counterattack.

On the Ottomans' turn, they killed several defenders in Aydin, but never sent anything at either of my lone musketmen. Beginning of the next turn, I pillaged the road to the saltpeter, then sued for peace, getting all their gold (17) and 36 gpt.

One turn later, in 1030, Ottomans traded contact with me to the Germans, English and Babylonians. I had escaped my first Ottoman war by the skin of my teeth.

[Dominae]

Well played Tall Stranger; that took guts!

Screenshots?


Dominae

[Rhothaerill]

Well played Tall Stranger.

I think I made a serious mistake by not taking on the Ottomans sooner and letting them build up. I haven't had much time for Civ3 the last few days, but I'm not sure I'm not going to beat the game now. I had just entered the industrial age and shooting for infantry and a slight bit of peaceful build-up when the Ottomans sent about 30 or so Sipahi after me. My entire defensive front collapsed as I lost all but two battles...even the riflemen fortified in cities!! They still have their whole invasion force and my defense at the border is completely gone. Sigh! I should know better.

[Tall Stranger]

Originally posted by Dominae
Well played Tall Stranger; that took guts!

Screenshots?


Dominae

I meant to look through my saves last nite and see if I saved near the time of the final attack on Antalya. I know I didn't create a screenshot at the time, since I don't know how to do a screenshot. (I think I remember a thread about this, so maybe I should look around the Poly web site for it.) Unfortunately, I got sidetracked with RL, as my wife actually expected me to spend time with her

If there is a save near 1010AD, I'll try to post a shot tonite.

[vmxa1]

Here is one easy way to get screnies.

http://www.irfanview.com/

This is a free tool that can capture the screen and resize it to 800 so it is not too big. Once you have it saved on your desktop or whereever you want it, just use the browse to attach it in your post.

[Tall Stranger]

Well, the closest save is 960AD, or 5 turns away. I honestly doubt I could reconstruct all my moves, etc. to make sure that the same events happen.

vmxa1, thanks for the info on the screen capture software. I'll try to make sure I'm running Irfanview in the background from now on.

[Mountain Sage]

DAR 4: from the FP to contacts with all other civs

In 50 AD After Declaration (of Catherine’s Supreme Leadership), the carts and the Otto went to war. Good news at last. Our Warrior build-up was doing fine.
In 170 AD we exchanged with the Japs the Republic for Literarature+Currency and with the Carts for Monarchy + Feudalism.
350 AD was the year it all began: 31 Medieval Infantry were ready to march against the Carts (they had Theology and Chivalry, we were researching Engineering). They were still at war with the Japs. We had just switched to Republic (another fancy name for things to stay the same) and didn’t need any more military garrisons.
By 530 AD the war was over. We got 4 cities and Theology (the Carts had Chivalry and Education). Our mighty army was down to 16 MI and 6 Pikemen.
In 640 AD Sverdlowsk was founded between 2 ex Carts cities. The FP was started in Leptis Magna, now up to a decent size again.
In 700 AD two bold Galleys and our avant-garde Marines captures the small island of Ankara. The lure of its vast plains full of horses was too much…
In 730 AD the war with the Otto was over and we got Astronomy. Techs parity again!!!
We then realized that the Carts were ground down by the Ottos and Japs, so we declared war on them (the Carts, not the Japs!), as to get their 3 south-east cities before the others.
In 800 AD the war with the Carts was over.
In 820 AD we traded printing Press for for:
Japs 14 gold/turn;
Otto Banking+130 gold;
Carts 2 gold + World Map. We had 830 gold now.
Our scientists were researching Music Theory.
850 AD brought sad news for the Carts. They were extinguished. Since we saw a stack of 35 Samurai, our plans to tackle the Japs were postponed indefinitely.
940 AD: nothing much to tell, except that all our cities were busy building improvements like mad. Our military: 13 MI, 13 Pikemen. If the Japs or Otto were to declare war, we’ll go the way of the Dodo in 5 turns….
1030 AD: second war between the Otto and the Japs. Catherine had a week-long public celebration. Both had Gunpowder, but Democracy was just 4 turns away.
1200 AD: the war ended. Another week of mourning. The Japs had Chemistry, but I had Free Artistry (very useful, you would say..).
1375 AD: contact made! Or, in a better English, they mad contact!
All civs had Navigation, Theory of Gravity, Military Tradition (but France did not have Free Artistry). I had 2’200 gold and soon my FP. I was researching ToG in 7 turns.

MS notes:
The wars went quite well, even if I did not achieve all of my goals. With respect of both the Japs and the Ottomans, I had a choice: either I would build city improvements and forget a military campaign, or the reverse. Since both had Military Tradition and I could not have the Cossacks, I prayed I could survive another 500 years or so…

Screenshot: my capitol in 1030 AD

[Mountain Sage]

1375 AD the year we make contacts.
This 'empire' is really tiny, but it's all we got.

[Thrar]

As i expected when i finished DAR3 quite early, this one is long. I have not yet contacted the other civs, but here is a first report:

975BC: Temple finished in Kiev, Polytheism finished. Time to trade:
Polytheism+45g to Carth for nothing less than Philosophy, Code of Laws (that one is new) and Map Making.
Polytheism to Ottomans for Mathematics, 50g and Worldmap.
Polytheism to Japan for 160g and Worldmap.
since i forgot to get the Carth worldmap, another trade: Carth map for 1g.
Net gain of 165g, all maps, and tech parity again. Since it takes me 36 turns to get Monarchy even at 90% research, i assume it would take the AI just as long (and since they just got Polytheism, they'll likely spend some turns researching some other tech), and decide to go for it in 40 turns. With an income of 20g per turn and 370 gold cash, i think i'll be able to buy Construction and Currency as soon as they are researched, and later trade Monarchy for some tasty middle ages techs.

925BC: Temples finished in Moscow and St. Petersburg. The culture graph looks like Carth has no or at the most one temple, so i shouldn't have problems in keeping conquered cities later. Carth and Japs are friendly to me, Ottomans cautious - if there will be a war soon, it likely won't involve me i think. Ottomans and Carth 10 cities, Japs 7, i'm at 8, but without room to expand. F11 looks pretty good: #1 in mfg. goods (this one is most important, imo), #2 in population and money.

875BC: the Iron is in my borders now. However, i noticed there is no trade route to the Ottomans, so i can't trade it away . I'll build a harbor now, sooner or later i'll need it anyway, but waiting that long may be too much...so i had to cut the mountain road to the iron. Since i'm just mining the iron and want to use it for Kiev, i didn't cut the hill itself.

825BC: Ottomans built an embassy. Since 26g for an embassy in Carthage is a bargain, i build that one too, and now have one with everyone. Unfortunately, the Carth built a temple in Hippo pretty early - its borders have just expanded, so i won't be able to take that town instantly later. It seems to be their only temple though, so no cultural worries for me.

750BC: Barracks in St.Petersburg finished. With 7 shields, they will train a couple of spearmen for defense.

690BC: poprushed the temple in Odessa for 2 pop, first from 23 shields to barracks for 1 pop, then from those 40 shields to full for another. I could have done this from 20 shields, but Odessa only just grew to size 3.

630BC: bought Construction from Japan for 370g. That took long, 15 turns since discovery of Polytheism.

590BC: started to fix the road to the iron, 9 turns until war.

430BC: Iron connected, instantly upgraded 12 warriors to swords.

330BC: someone researched Currency and traded it around. 16gpt to Japan and it was mine. This was the last required Ancient tech, my freebie was Feudalism. I checked with the Ottomans, and they got Monotheism! Even better, they are willing to trade Feudalism for Monotheism and 460g!! Now Carth won't have to worry about swords...but about MedInf!! I spent every cent on upgrades, and now have 16MedInf, 3 Pikes, along with a couple of spearmen. That WILL be enough.

310BC: Ottomans and Japs have Republic. I'm dead broke, don't need it, and will get Monarchy in 9 turns. My military is now average compared to Carth...

270BC: Time to die, Hannibal! Unfortunately there are none of their units in my territory, so i have to be the bad guy and declare war...MWAHAHAHA
I just noticed, all but two of their cities on my hitlist are built on hills...ah well, i'll probably need some reinforcements later.

250BC: Hippo is down. Lost 3 MedInf though, and it wasn't even on a hill. I miss the ability to retreat
Next will be Leptis Magna, then Carthage, unless there is a lot of stuff coming from the eastern villages.

190BC: Leptis Magna is mine. Lost 2 more MI against the 2 defenders.

130BC: reseached Monarchy, got Republic from Japan for Monarchy + 11gpt. Ottomans already have it. I decided both conquered cities will be relocated, Hippo is too close to my original cities, and there will still be enough room to fit 3 instead of 2 cities. War or not, i'll switch to Monarchy NOW. 5 turns of Anarchy are expected.

90BC: Hippo flipped back to Carth. Considering the culture graph, where i have roughly 50% more, and the fact that Hippo was size 2, this must have been quite unlikely, but still it's only a nuisance. I had no military there, since during anarchy i can't use them for police, so all it cost me is two turns and probably 1 or 2 MI for taking it back.

70BC: Welcome home, Hippo. Now it's down to size one. Killed 3 NM and a warrior out in the open, fine, that's 3 tough defenders less. Didn't lose a single MI this turn, not even to the warrior (as i expected, with the RNG results i had lately).

30BC: Monarchy! Carth has Feudalism though.

130AD: Carthage is mine. The war doesn't hurt me much at the moment, so there is no need to make peace before i can take Utica (spice village). Then, maybe.

150AD: now this is great! I just got a leader near Carthage, as soon as i have a temple for some culture, i'll rush the FP in Carthage. Rushed a temple for 236 gold in Carthage.

230AD: FP built, the silks SE of Carthage are now also in my territory.

280AD: the English complete the Great Library. Note: it's 280AD!!

300AD: the Japanese complete Sun Tzu's. At least it's on my continent, i'll try to kill the Japs after the Ottomans.

320AD: Utica and the Shieldwall - er - Great Wall is mine. The Spice must flow!
16 MI left, i think i'll take a break before taking down the eastern parts of Carthage. Got Chivalry, Literature and a small amount of money for the treaty. No ROP, so they have the chance of walking into my territory and declare war. Hippo is already relocated, Leptis Magna will be abandoned the following turn. The settler will go 9-9 and build a new city there.

Since this one is quite long, i'll take a break here and post the rest later.

The map:

[Thrar]

and here is the rest:

380AD: Ottomans finish Sistine.

somewhere in the early 500s: 20 turns of peace with Carthage expire, the turn later i take Theveste, their new capital.

560AD: there are mountains near Theveste, so i can't attack the NMs coming from there. But still - after i first lost an elite pikeman, fortified in Theveste (size 5) to an attacking standard NM, i got my second GL when another NM lost to a defending elite MI. I'll research Music Theory in 6 turns, but i decided to build JSBach brick by brick in Moscow, and don't need Leo's badly, so i'll turn him into an army. 2 Elite* MI for now, it should be possible to win a battle for the HE. Killed an archer on a hill, lost 2 HP, but am able to build the HE now. Currently i'll use it in Moscow as a prebuild for JSBach.

620AD: MT researched, JSBach in 26 turns. Sabratha, a Carth city pretty close to Carthage, is mine now. As an RNG sidenote: an attacking standard archer brought my army down from 10 to 3 HP. HE in 14 turns in Kiev. 15MI, 5 pikes, and my military is at least average to everyone i know. Nobody's fighting, and the tech pace is quite fast. I could get Invention from Carth for peace, but i want to take the eastern cities first. Due to the fast tech pace i won't be able to hurt the Ottomans enough before they get Siphai, i'm afraid.

640AD: the English finish Leo's. Interesting, i thought they were behind us in tech, since both Sun Tzu and Sistine were built here. Ah, we'll see. At least that means their shields are wasted and even if they'd get MT someday soon, they won't get JSBach i think.

660AD: Sulcis, one of the eastern cities, is mine.

710AD: killing a lone longbow in my territory gives me my 3rd great leader! I hope it will go on like this once i've completed the HE in 4 turns. Just researched Banking, traded it to Ottomans for Invention, Astronomy and map, got Gunpowder and map from Japan for Banking+20g. That means a slight tech lead, as i'm the only one with MT at the moment. JSBach in 16. I don't know what to do with my leader though...i switched Moscow to Copernicus, will be finished in 6, if i get it, i'll use my leader on JSBAch. Copernicus anywhere else won't be as useful, no other city gets close to Moscow in terms of research. If i can't get it, i'll save the leader for Smith's. Cirta, second of the four eastern cities, is also mine now.

720AD: i forgot, when i build Cope's, i won't be able to build any further wonders, as that will trigger the GA. Switched back to JSBach, will use the leader for Smith's in a faraway smalltown, so i can give it away if i need to. Economics in 9.

730AD: Saldae, third of the 4 eastern cities is mine.

740AD: Ottomans started on JSBach. 13 turns for me.

780AD: Oea, last of the eastern cities, now belongs to Russia. The Ottomans finished Copernicus, Japan switched to JSBach. Since JSBach is 200 shiels more than Copernicus, i don't think they'll take it from me, but i will investigate their city next turn when i have the money. Peace with Carthage gives me one of their smaller cities, which may serve as a military base in a later war.

790AD: Japanese get JSBach in 9, i get it in 8. This will be close.

810/820AD: Contact with the rest of the world. Got their maps and all contacts for spices. They have exactly the same techs as Japan and the Ottmans: Printing Press, MT, Banking, Navigation, Gunpowder and everything before that. I'm the only one with Economics, but don't have Navigation at the moment. France is about 4 tech behind, the rest all the same. Babylon seems to have the largest territory over there, with England and Germany not far behind each. France only has 6 cities in the middle of the continent. I don't see any cities in the wrong hands, they, too, seem to have had some peaceful millennia. I could bring JSBach down to 4 turns remaining (one turn faster as expected), checked Berlin, they need 12 turns, and i don't expect Babylon or England to be much faster. Next turn i'll investigate Osaka again, to see if i can get it as planned.

Current map: