AU402 DAR6: After 1500AD

[vmxa1]

15 hours of play yesterday and less than 10 turns finished, nasty.
I thought there was a preference to disable all of those notifications of treaties, but I did not find it.
This means you get so many pop ups about someone alliance with someone else and the next followed by a war declaration. Like I care or could keep track of them all.
It seems most are not doing anything with these wars as no cities have changed hands except the few I took on the tundra island. with everyone having at 200+ units and no tanks, I do not see much going on. Only place that looks like it could is the Arbia/Egypt land. You will need so many transports to get enough troops to ground that it is not hapening. I have seen very little come at me so far. The Germans have sent maybe 3-4 galleons and 10 frigates/ironclads. They are in second place.
I am making tanks now and I am considering attacking Japan as they were so ungrateful. They broke their deal with me after hundreds of years of my gifting them tech and joined germany in war against me. I did not plan on expanding, but I may just have to punish them and also assure myself of a third lux.
Broken deals have dropped my income from nearly 2,000 gpt to 150 and only 4 luxs.
I am researching Radio now and that will put me into the modern age.
Seti and MI will be my top pick there.
Using bombers on attacking ironclads and fighters to recon to find them before they can bombard.
Very painful game as turns are soooo long. At least on this PC they have never crashed. Good thing as it took 9 minutes to load the save to start the day this morning.

[PeaSoup]

I donno if I'll be able to finish my game because it is taking 5-10 minutes between turns.

It is 1838AD in my game, and I managed to get my average gpt of 2000 gold up to 3000 gold. Germany was willing to trade combustion for 999gpt + about 1000 gold.

I took over Spain (spice island) and rushed all improvments and irrigated the tiles so that the cities grow faster. They are all 15-20 in size and productive with all jungles cleared and the grassland mined.

Took over China (incense), and in the process of doing the same thing.

Russia declared war because I refused to give them gems, so I signed MPP with everyone except Japan (because I wanted their furs, but didn't want the earlier WW that comes with declaring war). Just as I expected, Japan signed a MPP with Russia against me + half the world..

Didn't take long to take over Japan's island.

Some civs signed peace with Russia, then later declared war against other civs that are still fighting Russia, so it's pretty much world war.

Egypt has finally declared war on the Arabs, and looks to be in a position to take them over.. good, one less civ to deal with.

I don't think I'll be taking over anymore civs. Corruption is only a minor problem on Japan's island, and I haven't built a FP yet.

I may go with a diplo victory just to finish the game quicker

[nbarclay]

My only embassies at the moment are with Korea, the Ottomans, and Germany. I've built others to check for MPPs before attacking (and, in one case, to set up an alliance with a civ I later annexed), but I'm not generally in a habit of setting up embassies without some specific reason. In this game, that may be paying off in terms of fewer interruptions.

[Catt]

From the other DAR thread we know that, at 1500 AD, Elizabeth's empire was at war with the Mongols and alied with Germany and Persia. Temujin actually dropped a few cavalry off in the Queen's American colonies, but all such landings were easily destroyed. With the English discovery of Scientific Method, a pre0build (military academy) was switched to the Theory of Evolution -- it was due to be completed in approximately 6 turns, and rather than reassign citizens and delay its completion for a time sufficient for the English scientists to complete their research into Atomic Theory, the Queen focused on the dsicovery of Sanitation (5 or 6 turns). With access to four local luxuries and easy tech trades for the remaining 4 luxuries, Elizabeth wanted people power -- all size 12 cities would become size 15 - 20 cities as soon as possible.

In 1535 AD the Germans, who had conquered all of France, prematurely made peace with the Ottomans, breaking a trade deal providing the Queen's treasury 800+ gpt which still had some 8 or 9 turns to run. Bismark effectively short-changed the English empire some 6500+ gold. Elizabeth was livid. But as time passed, she realized that she had needlessly risked such an outcome. Part of her reasoning in securing an allaince against the Mongols was to ensure good relations with England's technology customers. She could have very easily negotiated two separate deals -- one for te technology sale and one for the miltary alliance, both during the same turn. With Germany a monarchy, just coming out of many years of war against France, and facing the challenges of an intercontinental invasion of Mongolia, it should have come as no surprise that Bismark might prefer to make an early peace, revolt into a democracy, and rejoin the tech race with Elizabeth. Negotiating two separate deals on the same turn would have enabled Bismarck to break his alliance without also breaking his gpt payment obligations -- only a declaration of war from Germany would ease that burden. Instead, by bundling te two distinct deals together, Elizabeth must have made the premature withdrawal from a military alliance more attractive, as it would also terminate the substantial payments. The Queen understood the decision, but couldn't say she was not still very angry.

The next turn, Elizabeth called on Bismark to see how much of his 800+ gpt obligation he had already redeployed elsewhere -- not quite 500 gpt was still available for trade. Elizabeth believed that several civilizations were researching Industrialization, and decided the time was right again to drain foreign treasuries -- Industrialization was traded to Germany for 471 gpt (all avalable); to Persia for Democracy and 80 gpt (all available); and Elizabeth purchased Free Artistry for 11 gold. Bismark would be closely watched -- another broken deal and Elizabeth would forever break off all trade deals with Germany; furthermore, an assault on German luxuries would be planned and executed.

In 1545 AD, the Queen recommenced hostilities with America. The colonioes had been reinforced with additional cavarly units, muskets had been upgraded to infantry units, and an amphibious force of 8 infantry landed outside Washington to sever all trade routes to the Americans, denying them access to iron, saltpeter, and horses. The trade isolation was successful, and the war plodded along; the Queen dictated that each city be taken and all resistance subdued prior to the next assault; the city layout employed by Abe and te hilly / mountainous terrain to the west prevented a real blitz attack, and the Queen's troops were content to tke one city every few turns -- war weariness was nowhere to be seen in the English republic.

By 1640 AD, the world had chaged considerably, although Elizabeth's dominance remained unchallenged. The American's had been completely subdued many years before, and the Ottoman's had finally relocated their palace to the southern ice isle -- in a questionable diplomatic manuver, the Ottoman foreign ministry convinced their King to allay with a smaller civ against the Mongols; several Ottoman cities were promptly razed.

The English technology lead seemed now to be unstoppable. A GL from the Americanc campaign had rushed Hoover Dam in London (AI denial as much as benefit), securing the last remaining wonder of the age. With research commencing on Combustion (6 turns) the nearest competitors to England's power (Mongols, Persia, Germany, even Rome after a gifted tech) all have yet to discover RP, SM, or the Corporation and all are broke, having ust purchased Sanitation at bargain basement prices. England hasn't traded for Nationalism, so it is possible that others have discovered Communism or Espionage, but at least it is clear that England possesses at least 7 required technologies that no one else has.

The screenshot below includes a variety of images. London, which remains the English capitol and completed Newton's University, had several workers jon the city to bring it up to full capacity and is producing almost 10% of the entire empire's scientific research -- completion of a commercial dock in the near future will further add to its scientific productivity. The trade panels show AI versus England trade options - they are virtually all the same (England still hasn't disclosed the existence of the Greeks solely because Elizabeth is curious to see how long they remain isolated). The empire's rank of 3rd in Approval ranking comes despite the presence of all 8 luxuries -- many English cities have grown to 15+ citizens and without Sistine to add content citizens, the unhappiness begins somewhere around 13 or 14 citizens, even in those cities with a cathedral and colisseum.

[Catt]

Don't know how much more I'll play. Turns are taking +/- 20 minutes each -- I had a screensaver set to go off after 10 minutes and it happened during each phase of the turn (building / science if there are no diplomacy pop-ups; and unit movement). The tech lead seems insurmountable, and while I have half-heartedly prepared for an invasion of Japan solely to claim the entire western portion of the map for English glory, I just can't bear the waits in between turns. I'm going to give it a few days break, I think, and try to make it a little further on before deciding whether to abandon it or shoot for the earliest victory possible.

Catt

[vmxa1]

I got Cyberpower to agree to send me a new video card, I hope that is the problem I am having with PTW.
Not sure how many days it will take to get here, probably right after I finsh AU402 for the max pain.

[vmxa1]

Getting close now. I am at 2018AD. Not sure why, but India has not called for a vote so far.
I took out Japan even though I intended to not expand, I just had to pay them back for the back stabbing and the lost of the furs.
2011 I figured I would do the same to China as they were even less thank full. I sent 8 transports full of units. Two settlers, 5 arties, a few calvs and the rest tanks and MI.
2015 Landed next to Nanking on the hill. Took out the 21 size city and use one of my settlers right were it stood on the hill. Send the ohter settler as far as it could go and covered it with units. Next turn crank out another city so I can reach out farther.
Got my FIRST leader of the game. It is a shame as I thought I would finally do a whole game with no leader.
Use it to make an army of MI's and won a quick fight, you know the rest.
I have moved into 4th place which is as far as I will get as the next one is about 500 ahead.
No space ships or even any parts are likely in this game as I am ahead in research and will not even research those techs.
So unless India calls a vote it will be 2050 to the finish.
Anyome else manage to stick it out this far. I think there are about 14 or 15 civs left. It is funny how some of the smallest ones have been at war with everyone at one time and are still around.

[nbarclay]

I'm anticipating a space race victory in the very early 1800's. I have no desire to prolong the game beyond what it takes for me to win it.

[vmxa1]

That is good thinking and I now wish I had played it as a normal game to win quickly rather than see how big it could get. Man was that a mistake.

One more rant. I would like to see a penalty for civs that sign alliances and do not engage in any combat.
Note this did not happen to me after the first round as I of course knew they would behave that way.
In a std game, no sweat, but in these huge games with lots of civs, there is so many alliances that are wasting time. Many of these tiny civs sign up with no navy at all. Others like Japan did and now China are making pacts to fight civs while they are being dismembered. Japan signed them right down to the last city left standing? Why would another civ want to sign up with a dying civ against a very large one?
I would like to see at least some disorder if they do not engage in any combat and then maybe Firaxis could tighten up the logic so they would be more cirsumspect about making these pacts. It would help reduce the long times for the late turns, that is all I am really after.
They could put in some flags to skip all the logic for this alliance process for very weak civs to save processing.
Just a thought.

[nbarclay]

Why would there be disorder for signing alliances and not participating? I can see there being a penalty in terms of other civs' willingness to sign deals with the offender, but that's a different matter. Also, Firaxis could tighten up the AI logic regarding deciding whether or not civs seek/accept alliances without having to create a penalty for signing but not actively participating.

[BigDork]

:sigh:

Well I've kinda abandoned my game for the moment. I have some crazy RL stuff going on and with the 1.10 Diablo2 patch I've been playing that some more.

Hopefully at some point I can finish up but I dunno. I have a feeling my computer may not be up to it. Maybe I'll go buy a new GBA game to play while I wait between turns.

I'll hopefully get back into this next week and let you all know how my game turns out.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Why would there be disorder for signing alliances and not participating? I can see there being a penalty in terms of other civs' willingness to sign deals with the offender, but that's a different matter. Also, Firaxis could tighten up the AI logic regarding deciding whether or not civs seek/accept alliances without having to create a penalty for signing but not actively participating.

I am not adamant about the disorder any real punishment will be fine. A rep hit is of no real impact as far as I can tell. The AI will still do deals with each other.
right now it is a freebie.
What is often wanted is not an alliance, but a Neutrallity pact. A civ that has no means of getting to the action is still signed up to prevent them from going against you. If you could get them to agree to not join either that would solve things. Once one agree to fight, they should. If they do not they should be penalized. A rep hit is not a punishment in most cases.
Maybe a loss of treasure as a fine or a surrender of some troops to the original signature of the deal. I mean you come up with the damages or award.

[vmxa1]

This must be a first. In year 2029 I got my second leader and will finally get teh FP built in China's island.
Most of the game I had too few cities. When I finally got enough it was too long of a time to built from scratch.
Two leader both after 2015. Not sure how many hundreds of ears of wars this covers.

[Catt]

I'm calling it quits on this one -- a shame since I really enjoyed the game and would like to formally finish. I've gotten to 1675 AD. Where I am in the game:

Techs I recently traded some out-of date techs to Carthage in order to acquire Nationalism (Steam Power and Medicine), convinced that the lesser powers must have discovered both Espionage and Communism -- nope, Babylon is the only civ with Communism, but doesn't yet have Electricity. That means that Communism is the only tech I'm missing, and I possess Sci. Method, Atomic Theory, Electronics, Rep. Parts, The Corp., Refining, Steel, and Combustion. I'm researching Mass production in 6 turns at 90% -- perhaps commercial docks could get me to a 5-turn pace. A world war against the Mongols has erupted, with the entire continent and several overseas civs (including Germany and Babylon) at war with Temujin -- none of the strongly positioned civs, except perhaps Babylon, will be able to get back to a Democracy soon (most are Monarchies). So the tech race is effectively done.

Economy The monarchy-inducing warfare infesting my game means that it has been harder to bleed off large sums of gpt from the AI's. Still, I'm collecting about 900 gpt from a variety of civs, which allows research at 100% with a surplus of several hundred gpt -- without the foreign income stream, I think I'd have to drop back to 90 % research and still run a small deficit. The treasury contains about 6000 gold, and we're rushing improvements in the colonies just about every turn. The addition of maintenance-free commercial docks should erase a deficit at 90% science without foreign income.

Warfare England has conquered both China and America, both to our north. America is not yet fully railed, but is close and is reasonably productive (the capitol remains in London). An invasion force composed of cavalry and some infantry cover is steaming towards Japan (far north), about 4 turns away from landing, to take control of the world's fur supply and to claim the entire western portion of the minimap for the Queen. Japan has now traded for supplies of iron and saltpeter which means that Tokugawa will have samurai and muskets, although the perpetually broke Japanese probably haven't been able to upgrade many units. I was looking forward to seeing how efficient / economical trade embargoes against Japan would be, after the American flub, and the trade for Nationalism was the last piece of the puzzle I needed. The English military is still very small - undoubtedly "weak" compared to numerous other civs.

As of 1675 AD, turns are taking about 20 - 25 minutes, sometimes a little bit quicker. Completed harbor builds alone seem to hang for a few minutes (even though the city is already attached to the trade network); rushing airports in the next 10 - 15 turns will be a mess. It's not just the wait though that calls for the end -- I'm encountering repeated and repeatable crashes. If I try to upgrade a particular unit or units - crash. I've suffered through 4 or 5 crashes over the last two turns, and each crash entails a relaunch, reload (5+ minutes) and replay from autosave. Too much pain for me.

I'm really happy to have experienced a "bigger-than-huge-map" game - it was a great idea, I enjoyed the game, and I am enjoying the DARs. But having done it, it will be back to standard and the occasional large map game for me.

Catt

[vmxa1]

Yes I actually did finsih this brute. I lost, but I never intended to play normally. This was a Monarch.
I played as English and they do stink for this game. Man O War or not. The industrial trait was sorely missed through out the game.
The start location had very few strong tiles, so most cities could not generate all that many shields.

My intend was to play the game as far as it would go to see how big it could become and what the impact would be on my PC. In that vain the game ran out to 2050 and ran out of time.
I played part of the game on my 3.06GH with 1GB mem
and part of my 1.7GH with 512MB mem.
In general the turns were twice as long on the 1.7.
Some was probably due the faster mem and bus and the cpu was nearly twice as fast as well. I did not see much impact for the mem as it seem to stay under 300MB. The video card was a 256MB on the 3.06, not sure on the other, but I doubt it was a big factor.
Also the 1.7 was Win98SE and the other was XP PRO.
So anyway I stay out of any land grabs until around the late 1980's. I did not want to knock anyone out or let them get knocked out.
Once it got to they late part where all land was occupied and it was clear the AI would not take out anyone that was on its own land mass. I went after Japan and then China. Mongols were twice my size by then. I think I was 8th or 9th.