Au402 Dar5: 1000ad-1500ad

[jshelr]

America’s Strategy

(1) Read several pages of a good book between turns. I recommend Tuxedo Park, a story about the guys who developed radar in the early days of WWII, or a new biography of Newton by James Gleick, which is very good.
(2) Don’t even think about domination. That project would take more work than a reasonable PHD thesis.

America’s Implementation

(1) No military. A couple of Knights wandering around each Island is plenty. Let the great waters protect us.
(2) Beeline for Navigation and get that wonder.
(3) Sell those techs carefully to get out of the era with a tech lead.

Navigation yielded discovery of the large tundra island to the South and room for enough cities to get to the FP.

America nearly got all the wonders starting with Copernicus, missing Smith’s. While on Steam, we sold magnitism for nearly 600 gpt to the three trailing civs. They should now be slowed and they will also do democracy and military tradition while we get ToE and also factories. Then we will be off and running toward Hoovers, planning to create an Island fort in the home area and to bring the tundra up to a level where it helps with the advanced techs.

Notable: there is no need for the FP in the home islands. The cities are operating near full efficiency due perhaps to the map size, lots of we love the president days, and courthouses. No need for communism/police.

Risks: If the AI remains at peace, changes to democracy, and trades well, America will be caught on tech despite the good lead. So, need to get pop growing above size 12 asap and probably, need to cautiously stir the pot on war to get key competitors embroiled in conflict.

The other risk is the tundra Island and our far north outpost island. If the tundra island is oil-filled, it will draw invasion forces. American needs to defend it well which includes lots of workers to build the RR network very quickly. Forestry industry looks viable to generate some shields down there. More worried about the effects of war on the home islands’ tech effort than actually losing either remote location. The tundra island may never amount to much, despite its good size, although we plan to try to build the FP down there.

[jshelr]

There are a number of backward civs possessing lux beds with large quantities. We will not attack them but we plan to respond efficiently to any attack by stealing the lux with infantry. (Just read a hint of rubber problems above -- he, he. May need to revise this post to include a rubber raid on a backward civ.)

[nbarclay]

Catt, I hope you aren't planning to get far with 14 serious combat units and a warrior this late in the game on this big a map. One thing I learned in AU 207 (our huge-map game) is that on bigger maps, AIs tend to have a lot more units relative to the amount of land they have. My assumption is that that is because reduced corruption both boosts their production rate and boosts their income to pay upkeep on lots of units. In any case, I fully expect that you'll get swarmed and your units will have an interesting time just trying to stay alive for their first few turns.

[PeaSoup]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Catt, I hope you aren't planning to get far with 14 serious combat units and a warrior this late in the game on this big a map. One thing I learned in AU 207 (our huge-map game) is that on bigger maps, AIs tend to have a lot more units relative to the amount of land they have. My assumption is that that is because reduced corruption both boosts their production rate and boosts their income to pay upkeep on lots of units. In any case, I fully expect that you'll get swarmed and your units will have an interesting time just trying to stay alive for their first few turns.

haha, I have to agree with nathan

my experiences with large/huge maps is that even if a civ is relatively backwards and small, if they are isolated on an island.. chances are they'll have plenty of units running around.

I haven't gotten spies in my game yet, but I suspect that even Greek with their 5 cities on their own little island will have around 100 military units..

I'm sure China will have a lot more.

[PeaSoup]

Well, I haven't posted an update since DAR1, so here's where my game stands at 1580ad

note the mad $$$

-result of micromanagement actually, and checking every civ every turn trying to get the best deals.

-not buying techs, have been stealing ai's new techs and selling them, depending on how many civs you sell to and for how much, you can usually get 4x the cost of stealing back through trading. Great way to make extra money with all the secondary techs the ai researches. (one side effect of stealing techs is that you can see which tech the ai is currently researching (text in bold))

-cost of stealing goes up after every attempt (I think), currently costs 4000 gold to steal safely.. pocket change really

-noticed that the ai was willing to pay 700gpt for a late middle age tech that only I had, so factor in the ai trade discount at diety (60%?), can figure out prices other ai is willing to sell, and sell to the buying civ before then.

-been gifting ai with around 20gpt before making tech deals where the ai gives me 200+gpt. Since I get my gpt back anyways, I'm thinking it'll help discourage the ai from breaking deals. No sneak attacks yet.. so far so good.

-I expored my map with about 10 galley and sold my map every turn. When new sea tiles were discovered, I could usually get 20-40 gold from each civ (provided they had the gold). Not a bad investment for 10gpt in unit support.

-I only sold contacts to those civs that could afford it, and isolated the minor civs w/ lux for as long as possible. This resulted in Japan having no other contacts other than myself. Since I always trade my world maps, the ai doesn't need to explore around Japan, and since the island is out of the way for everyone, the ai had no reason to go there. One less luxury for the ai.


notes about the game:

-no wars for myself yet, ai has demanded contacts several times. I deliberately declined when in the ancient and middle ages hoping that the ai would declare war so I can get the happiness bonuses, but they were all bluffing

-only wonders I managed to get: bach's, newton's, smith's, and 2 turns away from universal sufferage (no one else has industrialization). No lighthouse means many many lost galley.

-russia has most wonders, what's with the iron and coal right next to Moscow? Span also has iron and coal around their capital, good thing they are behind in tech.

-didn't settle tundra island, I'm building up my forces to invade Span for the luxury + put myself in position to invade mega continent if I want to.

-after Span, I'm either going to take out Japan then China.. or go after one of the weaker civs on the mega continent, but I really want to take out Russia for Sistines and Magellan's. Russia will be extremely difficult.

-I have a 1 tech lead, industrialization. Russia is researching Replaceable Parts.. going to steal that too.. From other people's DARs, looks like there's no rubber, hopefully Spain will have some in their jungle infested island.

that's all I can think of for now, going for spaceship victory, but techs take 12-18 turns to research, so I need to secure more land if I want to keep my tech lead and launch the ship. Don't even have enough cities for FP.

enjoy the image

[jshelr]

America The Trader

We've traded our old techs for all the lux and huge gold per turn for several hundred years now. America is running a 550 gpt surplus at 100% science and is a few turns from scientific method, at which point the iron works will crank out TOE.

The pack of science civs, however, is not far behind. At the turn, they got different techs and traded quickly to nearly eliminate our tech lead.

We have more than 11k in gold and the gold surplus is being used to bring the tundra island to the south into the flow with decent coastal citites. Commercial docks might be a big help soon.

My impression is that the lagging civs are now trading toward parity and that this will end up a close game with a large number of late-game civs in the hunt.

[FrustratedPoet]

Great DAR's everybody! Especially Catt and Nathan. Simply fantastic!

[Catt]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Catt, I hope you aren't planning to get far with 14 serious combat units and a warrior this late in the game on this big a map. One thing I learned in AU 207 (our huge-map game) is that on bigger maps, AIs tend to have a lot more units relative to the amount of land they have. My assumption is that that is because reduced corruption both boosts their production rate and boosts their income to pay upkeep on lots of units. In any case, I fully expect that you'll get swarmed and your units will have an interesting time just trying to stay alive for their first few turns.

Only as far as the elimination of China . Seriously though, in my game I hadn't traded contacts with China to anyone -- they knew only me. I can't remember if they had made it out of the ancient age or not, but it hardly mattered since they had no iron, and only one source of horses near Beijing. And their terrain was very poor. Those few English knights were upgraded to cavalry after taking the first two cities, and one additional galleon-full of cavalry was deposited on the island. China gone. I killed perhaps 10 horsemen, a half dozen spears, and a few archers. Everyhting else was spears in cities, many of them regulars. It wasn't a massive cavalry rush as Nathan set up and executed, but it still took only about 6 or 7 turns, brought me to number one in land, and secured a sole supply of incense.

But your warning is well-taken. My experience on huge maps is very, very limited, and I am finding myself temporarily shorthanded in an invasion of America. More below, when the DAR continues. But very impressive on the size of your forces, Nathan. I am just now beginning the build-up of forces as factories come online.

Catt

[Catt]

Continued . . .

The English invasion of China was swift and decisive. Canton was taken, supplying the home isle and colonies with raw incense. Shortly after the fall of Canton, English scientists rushed news of a new discovery to the front -- the battle-hardened troops, particularly the knights, felt a bit silly, and some could be heard to complain that they were being demoted to mere mounted musketmen, but the new rifles made available to the newly christened English cavalry forces (more particularly their mobility and attacking power) quickly convinced the troops that the Queen's rumpled scientists back home knew a thing or two. English cavalry fanned out across China and quickly deposed Mao, securing England's 7th great island and generating the first English great leader during the last few battles. Rather than delay the conquest in order to form a new army, the war ended with Nelson (?) safely ensconced in a subdued Chinese city.

Meanwhile, those rumpled scientists went back to work. Steam Power was discovered in 8 (?) turns, followed by Industrialization in 9 and then Electricity in 9. A large and growing worker force RR'd the home isle and set sail for the colonies to RR them as well. A forbidden palace was constructed on the eastern isle -- the Queen was a bit befuddled on where to construct her second palace, and ultimately decided on the eastern isle in the hopes that it would provide benefits to much of the home isle, all eastern territories, and even the southern glacier. Preserving little corruption in the science city of London was important, and Elizabeth was growing restless at home, thinking that decamping her royal entourage from London for more exotic climes in the future would makes sense.

In 1360 AD, France declared war on Germany -- a disturbing development since the Queen felt certain that Germany would overrun the hapless French. Despite overwhelming advantage, Bismark proceed to induce numerous others into war with France. But there were brighter spots for England on the geopolitical stage -- the Mongols and Ottomans had been at war for centureies with little effect other than to force the Ottomans into a Monarchy. But in the 1300's the tide turned decidedly in the Mongol favor. Ottoman cities began falling. Elizabeth was pleased, for the Ottomans had long represented the most significant threat to the Queen who expected to lead an empire over which the sun would never set. Germany's status as contender to dominance was growing.

When Bismark entered the Industrial Age, the Queen was pertubed to discover that somehow the German scientists had learned the secrets of Medicine in the blink of an eye without any effort at all. But she knew it could have been worse - the Germans could have stumbled upon Steam Power or Nationalism.

In 1380 AD the Queen was astounded to discover the strength of the German economy. Though she didn't want to trade Steam Power, she could not let significant German income remain in Bismark's hands. Elizabeth traded the knowledge of Steam Power for 748 gpt -- although Bismark had no access to coal, the Queen felt certain a border city of the French would fall soon, giving the Germans the power of rails.

Below is a screenshot just before the FP was completed, showing its location. Cathedrals are serving as pre-builds for factories. Though hard to tell from the shot, China is subdued.

Catt

[Catt]

Continued . . .

With strengthened forces coming from the home isle, and newly-experienced cavalry from the former Chinese lands, and invasion force was assmebled with America as the target. Nelson was used to form a cavrly army, and forces were moved into position. Some 28 cavalry (including the army) and four muskets landed outside Buffalo, home to a spice colony and a coal mine.

Buffalo fell. So did Miami and St. Louis. The occasional American musketman interfered with English battle plans, and several swordsmen and medieval infantry counterattacked. Miami's improvements were rapidly sold and Miami abandoned and razed so as to concentrate invasion and resistance-fighting forces in Buffalo -- a large force of American counterattackers, furious at the Queen's hubris, were marching east. The Queen had made a serious mistake -- the Americans had no local sources of horses or saltpeter, but were importing the tools of war. Elizabeth had planned to secure trade embargos against the Americans from all their trading partners, tapping into the mighty English treasury as needed to do so. But the English had not yet discovered Nationalism, and without that knowledge, trade embargos were unavailable The Queen had contemplated landing sufficient forces at Washington to sever all trade routes and stifle Americ's trading, but decided to employ the trade embargo for the first time in memory -- unfortunately, the lack of experience with embargos caused the confusion, and the Queen's forces are resigned to seeing the occasional musketman and knight. However, the Americans have no gold, and so upgrades will not be possible. Hopefully the time needed to build expensive units using imported resources will favor England.

Below is a compilation screenshot from 1435 AD - my current point in the game. A second leader was generated but not yet used, and a victorious army has allowed the construction, nearly complete, of the Heroic Epic. More facts / thoughts on the game below -- out of the narrative fashion.

Catt

[Catt]

So . . . it's 1435 AD. I should be able to withstand a furious counterattack from the Americans, and eventually take all of America, albeit on a slower pace than I would have liked. Replaceable Parts is due in 9 turns. No one has anything other than Medicine, and then only Germany, the impotent Ottomans, and perhaps Persia (but Persia's competitiveness is a mere blip caused by the free tech at the new age), they are a MOnarchy (long war with Celts) and pose no present threat. I'll complete Universal Suffrage soon, and ToE is a foregone conclusion. The scariest competitor is virtually no more -- the Ottomans have almost been kicked off their home continent by the Mongols. The Ottoman capitol should relocate to the southern ice island sometime soon. I don't worry about the Mongols as a tech / economic challenge, and I don't worry about a Mogol invasion. Germany still presents an economic threat, but I suspect they will spend valuable time on Nationalism and maybe even Free Artistry. Bismark never took the French coal city before peace, meaning he has no access to coal, and no one else with coal in their borders is very close to Steam Power. Germany hasn't however, enjoyed its Golden Age yet, but I suspect that I will be able to divert all that Golden Age gold to England's benefit in any event.

One looming threat remains, but it is more hobgoblin than true threat. My military is pathetically weak. A coordinated inter-continental invasion could do serious damage . . . but I don't really fear that from an AI. After America, I can take Japan if I want, and maybe Carthage too. America brings the local luxury control to 4 -- each of Japan and Carthage would add another. Without a serios threat such as the Ottomans presented to Nathan, I think this is probably won.

I'm going to slow down a lot on turns at this point -- my last timed turn (back in the 1300's) totaled a full 8 minutes and 12 seconds of pure waiting time! I'm now halfway through the new Harry Potter novel (read during waits) and getting busy in RL with work and the American July 4th weekend approaching.

Great DARs from all so far!

Catt

[jshelr]

America the Fort

We've finished TOE and Univ Suff. Hoover in about 20 turns, more to make sure that nobody else gets it than because it is worth it on this map.

Rubber was found in our South Tundra Island and we are ready to bunker down in our island forts, quickly building lots of artillery to ride on our rail system. Go ahead and land. Make my day. Next up is a blue water navy with the iron works cranking out capital ships.

The gold surplus is over 15k, despite rush building every turn in the tundra. GPT surplus is around 800. We need to switch to democracy and trade for sanitation so we can spend more per turn. Any invader will find all his neighbors have been bribed into alliances to fight off the unwarranted attack on the peaceful Americans.

With TOE and replacable parts we have a four tech lead and are feeling sassy at this point, although anarchy will probably cut the lead by half a tech. Democracy seems safe with US and no intention to invade anyone. I suspect that the AI civs can trade to catch up on tech, however. And the trailing civs all get free tech at the next turn. We will see. Slowly.

Trading: the huge number of civs provides opportunities for extensive gpt and essentially free lux, obviating the need for war. America has been able to trade old techs for lux readily so far. And civs just behind the 3 that were breathing down America's neck before TOE will pay substantial gold per turn for techs that are more modern but don't cut into the American advantage. There is some risk that leading civs will capture our lux sources from weaker civs and become pains in the ass. But we will have to deal with that as the occasion arises. Meanwhile, we have been giving military techs to neighbors of civs that look to be the major long term threats.

Tundra: I have a hunch that the tundra island is going to be a big advantage in this game. There was lots of game on the island. We have a size 12 city and several large towns down there. Rubber and, we can hope, oil lie ahead.

Is there a thread on how to post screen shots? I'm willing to give fortran programming tips in trade for help with screen shots.

[jshelr]

Catt: "When Bismark entered the Industrial Age, the Queen was pertubed to discover that somehow the German scientists had learned the secrets of Medicine in the blink of an eye without any effort at all."

This happened in my game as well, cutting a substantial tech lead down to nearly nothing in one turn as three science civs all went through the turn together and got different techs. Need to keep that risk in mind when trading for gold per turn with science civs that are right behind.

[Jawa Jocky]

Originally posted by Catt
I'm now halfway through the new Harry Potter novel (read during waits)
Catt

I think we needed to pick bigger books

[nbarclay]

The key to avoiding having AIs catch up by multiple techs when different scientific civs enter the industrial era (except maybe as a temporary condition) is to only research Industrialization (out of the three entry techs) yourself. You can then generally trade to civs other than your closest competitor for the missing techs, so you get the same sort of trade advantage from other scientific civs' entering the era that your closest competitor does. In contrast, if you research two or all three entry-level industrial techs yourself, you lose ground from researching technology that your competitors end up trading for instead.