AU208: Total Eternal Forever War - Reports and Comments

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by nbarclay


Theseus, are you picking the Vikings because you think they're a good civ for this map, or in spite of knowing they aren't? To get much use out of the Expansionist trait, you have to risk meeting the other civs earlier, and even then, scouts who stumble across military units on their second move would have their careers cut short. Militaristic is worth something, but the lack of Industrious is extremely costly with all the forests around. And while Berserks pack the same punch as cavalry, their lack of retreat makes them a lot less survivable even though they cost almost as much. Further, their best attack mode - coastal invasions - becomes a bit more problematic when AIs beat you to frigates and ironclads. The Vikings certainly aren't the worst civ I can possibly imagine for this map, but I think they're a long way from the best.

I'd have to agree with that. I tried the Mongols with the same traits and my behind was handed to me (but by my own admission I played it poorly to start and the start is the key). Militaristic is good for all the fighting this AU takes (wish I had more elites ), but expansionist just doesn't give you enough of an edge. At least it didn't for me.

[vmxa1]

Rhothaerill do not waste any effort to make England productive, it is too small to sweat. Just let it provide resources and units. Corruption in those cities is irrelavant.

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Rhothaerill do not waste any effort to make England productive, it is too small to sweat. Just let it provide resources and units. Corruption in those cities is irrelavant.

I just finally had some time to actually play again this week and decided at the last minute that making England productive wasn't worth losing a wonder and some of the production in the lower half of my main continent. Consider your advice heeded.

[nbarclay]

Sistine is one of few wonders that has global rather than merely continental effect, and I regard it as very much worthwhile in this game. With only two luxuries available in the home hemisphere, even on Chieftain, a size 12 city needs six happy faces from some combination of MPs, city improvements, and wonders to avoid rioting. A temple, cathedral, and Sistine can provide that. Without Sistine, two MPs, a coliseum, or some use of the luxury slider would also be needed until another luxury can be secured, and two MPs in every city would eat up quite a bit of free unit support (not to mention units that can be used as MPs in captured foreign cities). On higher levels, the advantage of Sistine is, of course, even greater.

[Theseus]

Nathan, I picked Scandinavia when I found I couldn't be Rome. I haven't really played it much before, and figured having such a bad-ass UU might come in handy.

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Sistine is one of few wonders that has global rather than merely continental effect, and I regard it as very much worthwhile in this game. With only two luxuries available in the home hemisphere, even on Chieftain, a size 12 city needs six happy faces from some combination of MPs, city improvements, and wonders to avoid rioting. A temple, cathedral, and Sistine can provide that. Without Sistine, two MPs, a coliseum, or some use of the luxury slider would also be needed until another luxury can be secured, and two MPs in every city would eat up quite a bit of free unit support (not to mention units that can be used as MPs in captured foreign cities). On higher levels, the advantage of Sistine is, of course, even greater.

Really?

Wow, all this time I thought it was continental only. I'm going to have to go back and read up on this when I have the chance.

EDIT: I'm a dope. I never knew that Sistine wasn't continental. I don't often do many other-continent invasions unless it's for a city and resource that I want. So I never checked it.

[Rhothaerill]

The Treacherous Ocean

After the fall of England I immediately set to work getting ready to take over India. I positioned my five galleys in Susa (with harbor) to get ready to upgrade to caravels once I hit Astronomy. All the rest of my units that I intended to send to the Indian front were sent to Susa as well. So, Astronomy is finished and off go my caravels across the ocean. I expected to lose one or two caravels. I didn't expect to lose four! My intention had been to land my units and take two cities at once and dig in for reinforcements. After the loss of the caravels I was only able to take Bengal on the tip of the Indian continent (where the spices are). For the next several turns I started beelining toward Magnetism as fast as possible, but also sending my units out to die in the ocean. All told I lost 12 full caravel loads and only three more caravel loads made it to the Indian continent. I finally decided that enough was enough as I was having phenomenally bad luck crossing. My cities continued to mass produce units in preparation, but I kept them in Susa along with several caravels waiting for upgrade. I was hoping that my remaining units in Bengal would be able to hold out.

But as the AI is wont to do, they sent hordes of units after me at once. And because of total war, I had units from the Indians, Babylonians (who have a ROP with the Indians), and Egyptians coming at me all at once. The Americans have landed twice on my continent and twice on the English continent but all their units were swiftly dealt with. Just as I finished Magnetism though, my forces finally fell. But I wasn't too worried. I now had six galleon loads of units to send back and retake my city. Just before Bengal fell to the Babylonians I had taken my Great Leader (from defense) out on my lone caravel still in the city to wait for the reinforcing galleons. I didn't want to trust him to a caravel crossing. In short order Bengal returned to my hands (and the walls and barracks I had built were still intact, I just had to rebuild the harbor to send the spices off and running) I returned my galleons to pick up another five full loads to return to Bengal while the AI continues to batter at me. I've lost many units, but the AI civs are losing three for every one of mine (roughly). And I've gained another Great Leader (see below where the first went) which I immediately used for an army. As soon as my next wave of units hits the Indian shores I intend to start an offensive of my own.

On the research front, I still appear to be holding my own. 3 of the AI civs are in Democracy (after 1,000 years of war ) and one in Republic. I'm roughly on par with them. I know they have Magnetism because I just saw an Egyptian galleon. They also have all the unnecessary techs because one of the four built the wonders for them. But I believe I'll be able to beat them to Newton's University. I had a prebuild going for Adam Smith, but my first leader built that so I could continue building for Newton. All I have left in the Middle Ages is a few turns for Theory of Gravity, Metallurgy, and Printing Press (I'm playing it on the AU mod ). I also intend to take a run through Military Tradition, because I really need Cavalry. It could swing the Indian nation to me because they don't have saltpeter (barring a trade) and I do.

Looking ahead from here I see much more war on the horizon. Now that I have a firm foothold on the Indian continent and have sliced up all their attacking forces I can begin to actually look at conquering more cities. My forces are still stronger than any individual AI civ, but my knight force was decimated in the crossing and subsequent defense of Bengal. I'm only now starting to get it back up to speed. With a little RNG luck heading back my way I might even flatten the Indians by 1500. Only 3 civs left after that. We'll see how it goes.

More to come later...

[Rhothaerill]

A Valiant Try

Sigh!

Everything has now gone wrong for me. I used up all my luck in the early game. After finally going on the offensive, pretty much my entire invasion force has been wiped out. Between the constant attacks from the Indians, Babylonians, and Egyptians, and the fact that I've lost almost every battle (even the elite knight attacking an unfortified warrior on grassland lost ), my forces in Bengal are all but nonexistent. And the Americans are starting to land on my continent before my frigates can take them out (I've even lost a few frigates to galleys ).

On the tech research front I'm suddenly way behind. All the other civs have now entered the Industrial Age while I'm still a good eight turns away. And because the Babs get a free tech, I'm probably at least five techs behind by now. And the gap is growing.

So it's sad to say, but I'm packing it in. My production capacity can't keep up with the amount of units I'm losing on a turn by turn basis. I could probably hold onto my two continents, but I'd be in for a long holding pattern until eventually losing in the end (to a UN resolution if nothing else). I think I prefer to go onto another game.

Kudos to Nathan for his almost-to-victory-game.

Thanks to all of you for reading my posts. I'm looking forward to the next course. Hopefully it isn't another total war.

[nbarclay]

1790 AD. Victory. Details later.

[Rhothaerill]

Good job Nathan. After knowing what I just went through it's all the more . The first three civs I took on one at a time, but after landing on the Indian continent the other four all ganged up on me at once.

[lmtoops]

So it goes Rhothaerill; you did much better than I (all 3 of my attempts). I truely enjoyed your narrative, along with the game notes.

I may give this game a 4th try. I enjoy pain, suffering, and ultimate death.

[Theseus]

I am having a b*tch of a time.... but I refuse to give up.

That said, I can only take this game in relatively small doses, and would like the pleasure of a relatively normal game concurrently. I tried MZO's Boot Camp #1, but it was too easy.

Time to start hatching plans for the next AU game. I'd like to try focusing on inter-continental invasions... how can we:

1) Make them tougher for the player. A lot tougher. MEAN tougher.

Actual risk of getting sunk on the way... no mountains or hills to land on... huge counter-attacking SODs... sh*tloads of defending Cannon / Arty (that actually get used)... radar towers three tiles in from shore...

Not quite sure how to accomplish this.

2) Harder to defend against.

How friggin' happy would it make me to see a true AI civ IC invasion, 30-40 units minimum.

Ideas?

[Dominae]

I have some ideas on how to make human-led IC invasions more difficult/fun, but getting the AI to actually attack the human's island effectively is certainly a project that is out of our hands (with the tools available in the editor, at least).

I'll ruminate on this as I get some exercise...a sketch of my idea to come later.


Dominae

[vulture]

Originally posted by Theseus
I
1) Make them tougher for the player. A lot tougher. MEAN tougher.

Actual risk of getting sunk on the way... no mountains or hills to land on... huge counter-attacking SODs... sh*tloads of defending Cannon / Arty (that actually get used)... radar towers three tiles in from shore...

Not quite sure how to accomplish this.

2) Harder to defend against.

How friggin' happy would it make me to see a true AI civ IC invasion, 30-40 units minimum.

Ideas?

We could always redo the isolation AU, but make it tougher. That one came out to easy because the starting island was rather nice and the AI were isolated into three small groups. A standard map game with the human on a smaller island and all 7 AI in contact with each other (maybe get fewer aggressive civs to keep war to a minimum early on) and conctact with the human impossible until magnetism or navigation (as before, make galleys and caravels arrive with magnetism, when they become obsolete). This would leave the human languishing behind in tech at the point of contact in all likelihood (could mod out the Great Library to make sure), and we'd end up facing the challenge of an IC invasion against a technologically superior enemy - it'd be very hard to get any offense at all going before ther AI had railroads and riflemen, and the usual AI swarm of ironclads roaming the seas. But it wouldn't be as difficult as this scenario since diplo moves are also available. Plus it will be a lot quicker to play the first 200 turns or so...

Might want to play with UN (and possibly spaceship) off.

Anyone interested in a game like that?

[Rhothaerill]

Just played almost that same exact situation on a random map on Emperor (see my starting location in the general forum). I was stuck on a tiny island and by the time I got off of it I was way behind in tech and had almost nothing to offer the others for their tech (they were all annoyed with me too even though they just met me).