Training Succession Game 201

[Modo44]

Originally posted by dmd175
I'm surprised at you Emperor Modo - these are Babylonian citizens!!!!

I didn't say move Ashur. I said it was placed in a bad spot, IMO. Now that it's there, make as good a use of it, as you can. Plan a shipyard, or something.

Originally posted by dmd175
In progress, but maybe a bit too late.

Too late. You already have a barb uprising on you. Good luck. You're going to need it...

[dmd175]

Originally posted by Modo44
I didn't say move Ashur. I said it was placed in a bad spot, IMO. Now that it's there, make as good a use of it, as you can. Plan a shipyard, or something.

In retrospect, I do agree it is in a non-ideal spot. PB also pointed this out, that it would have been better moved at the initial time. However, we'll make Ashur useful in some fashion.

Too late. You already have a barb uprising on you. Good luck. You're going to need it...

Surprsingly, they are not really attacking. There is a mess of barbs just sitting there and letting me pluck
them one at at time.

Thanks for the comments.

[dmd175]

Pic of barbs forgot to attach.

[Modo44]

I see. That's something like a bug in C3C. Can be fixed, but I realize you probably don't want them to move...

Anyway, just edit the "Conqests.ini" file, adding a line: "NoAIPartol=0". Then they will act like they used to in PTW - wandering, looking for targets.

[punkbass2000]

They won't move unless something is on their NW-SE axis, in which case they'll pick the best defensive terrain in that direction.

[punkbass2000]

I don't think you can change it midgame, and if you can, you shouldn't. I deliberately did it without, as this is a 'normal' C3C, AU mod game.

[Modo44]

It's not a modification to the rules. It depends only on the line in "Conquests.ini", and only for that copy of Conquests. Completely independent on where the save came from.

[punkbass2000]

Nonetheless, changing the way the game operates midgame is exploitative. It would be unfair to the AI, for one thing.

[Modo44]

In this specific case, not fixing the bug will help you, not the AI. You have a huge uprising, but only 3 Swords to contain it. Think about that.

[dmd175]

10 BC to 250 AD

Done with exam: civ time today until the lady gets upset!

10 BC end of turn: Carcemish and Akkad switch to temple.

10 AD: Swords killed two barb horses in Babylon NE territory. Slider to 60% sci (rep still in 2 turns, but saved us 8gpt).

30 AD: English request audience, want writing for math. It looks like this might be all we get for it, unlucky as we are with no other contacts. Sword kills 4 horse defending, but dies. Settler sent from Samaria to Hastings 322 to block any land for english. This leaves open space between new city and London which will be filled in later. Temple hurry in Carcemish.

50 AD: Republic research, switch mapmaking, revolting!

70: Anarchy. Religious is nice. I have played religious only a few times with iroquois and am used to seeing up to 9 turns, which I think is too much.

90 AD: Looks like English took out massive barb camp S of Sippar. We are now in republic, and on 5 turn research to MM, with 10% lux.

110 AD: Kill barbs. Ellipi settler sent to Uruk 69 - yes crowded but is a river city. Prebuild galleys London, Samarra.'

130 AD: Kill barbs, roading spice near Larsa, rush defender there.

150 AD: Aztec = lighthouse. Libraries in Eulbar, Ashur. Kill some barbs, one promote to elite. Set up one sword on mtn SE of 4 barb horse for next turn. One spear promoted. Blocking now 3 English settler/spear teams. They are probably p-o, so will fortify border towns.

[dmd175]

Sneak attack expected by English, 230AD

170 AD: Sword kills all horse. -2hp. Continue to beef up periphery.

190 AD: Aztec = great wall. England moves 3 archers N from oxford toward Sippar. Activity west of London. They may attack, but they have three spear/settler teams that our in our territory and will be forfeit... slave labor to grease our war machine. Zamua founded. Researched MM, switch to horseback, which we can research in 4 turns at 34gpt. Hope to trade this to English for math or poly since they will now not trade writing if Nottingham flips (has a horse). I'm working aggressively on flipping it.

Samarra, Eulbar to galley. London to granary (waste 21 sh to build galley) and galley next.

210 AD: English archer in our territory at Zariqum 9. 3 about to enter at Sippar 22.

Iroquois have founded a city in our banana garden. @#$#@!!! Just noticed. Will send emissary to meet.

230 AD: English archer to zariqum 6. 3 at Sippar 2. England has FIVE settler/spear teams roaming aimlessly: 3 West of Akkad, and 1 77 of Zariqum and 1 89 of Zariqum. I fear attack next turn at Sippar and maybe Zariqum. Counterattack will be swift and will capture as many of those settler teams as possible. Rushed unit in Sippar for fourth defender vs. 3 archer.

[dmd175]

250 AD: As expected, England declared war. 3 archers attacked Sippar. First spear was killed outright, one damage to English. Second spear killed elite archer. IX Corps killed archer, -1hp. New warrior joins the fight. Archer at zariqum is moved by english to 63 next to our worker; he is killed by regular warrior from zariqum.

The goal of this war is to crush settlers, take a few cities, and sue for math+poly.

Three swords pounce at Nottingham's 3 nearby settler/spear teams. Attack #1 successful, sword -2hp and spear sent to protect him while in enemy territory. Attack #2 successful, sword -1hp, but promotion. Attack #3 success, sword -0hp. Six slaves renamed.

IX Corps finishes off archer column S of sippar, still 4/5 hp. Warrior from Sippar N to Nottingham.

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by Modo44 [*]Uruk is too close to the capital for my tastes. I'd move it one tile north-east (to Babylon 9998). This crowding will make it very hard, if not impossible (hey, I can do double negation too ), to grow Babylon into a wonder factory later on.

I never make Wonder factories, they're not needed (neither the Wonders themselves nor the factories). I never sacrifice early development for superfluous goals.

Other things...

• Why are you Roading Forests? Perhaps there is some reason I don't understand, but it's surely more efficient to Chop those tiles first. consider that you usually want the food, that hides beneath them. The only reason for a Road would be, to get a city connected ASAP. But that is not the case with all those roads, right?

• Highly dependent on where you're talking about and its overall growth potential. There aren't really any regular tiles that can produce more shields than forest in the early game.
  
• Babylon is building a Settler, while at size 2. Of course, it can do perfectly well going from size 2 to 3, then doing a Settler, then growing back, and so forth. BUT, if you let it grow to size 4 or 5 first, it will still be doing Settlers every 10 turns, with many units added inbetween. And you need some units to clear the north, and the east from barbarians. Also, Babylon is your capital, so all the gold, and beakers it produces, will remain unwasted. You already have 2 luxuries, so you probably wouldn't even have to move the lux slider to do that.[/quote]
  
  Yeah, Babylon is not a high food producer. It should chunk out a Settler whenever it's going to cross the city threshold, but otherwise it is a military camp and also should build improvements.
  
  

  I'm sure we talked about the ideas behind growing the capital, either in this thread, or in the previous Training Succession. Were you not listening, dear students?

One general note. Get some units, and kill those barbs. At the very least, make sure no camps are near your cities. You never know when others hit the Medieval Era, creating the massive uprisings. You really don't want that to happen this close to your core. If in a tight spot, send some units to fortify on Hills and Mountains - a Spear can usually take quite a few attacks, before dying.

Screenie, as promised.

This is a problem I saw coming for quite some time now. Seeing as we're playing Continents on a Small map with all opponents, the fact that we share our continent with only the English means that there's four Emp. AI on the other continent, most likely. This means we'll be behind in tech until we find them and until we have the chance to completely settle our landmass and become a Republic, etc. Also, three of them are Agr and they all seem to be building Wonders fairly equally. This is good and bad. For one, it appears they're not wasting strength killing each other too much, unfortunately, though this means that the appearance of a KAI is less likely. It is fortunate as well that they have reached the Middle AGes, as this means neither the Aztecs nor the Iroquois likely had the opportunity to really dominate with their UUs. They all have AA UU as well and hopefully managed to trigger thei GA already. Nonetheless, I would be inclined to watch out for the Iroquois in particular.

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by Modo44
In this specific case, not fixing the bug will help you, not the AI. You have a huge uprising, but only 3 Swords to contain it. Think about that.

Changing the rules is changing the rules is changing the rules. Who it helps most immaterial. Impartiality is they key. And, as I said originally, I want this game standard. C3C 1.22 does not fix this bug and neither does the AU mod.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by punkbass2000
I never make Wonder factories, they're not needed (neither the Wonders themselves nor the factories). I never sacrifice early development for superfluous goals.

I guess it depends on attitude. You know, different people consider different things "fun".

Yes, I know this game is about learning. Sorry, my bad.

Originally posted by punkbass2000
Highly dependent on where you're talking about and its overall growth potential. There aren't really any regular tiles that can produce more shields than forest in the early game.

Sure, you can use the production, but not checking if there's BG under those Forests? Pop is power, I always thought? It is definately faster to Chop, then Road, than the other wa around, and I will usually (99% cases) want to get to that food, more than I want to get to those shields. Plus, you still get the production that gets lost before the Mine is up - that's the 10 shields that come with the Chop. Or am I missing a point here?


Quick comments on the 250 AD save.

• You have way too few Workers. Many cities are working unimproved tiles, and that loses you a lot of cash, and shields. Get some more. Personally I'd double them up, to have 20.
  
• Ellipi is supposed to be a Worker/Settler pump. It should have enough food, and shields, to produce a worker every 2 turns, or a Settler every 4 turns. It should be cruising between size 4, and 5 - building the Settler/Worker on the turn it would grow to size 6. Mine some of that Grassland around the city (and perhaps take the Mined BG from Nineveh), and manage the citizens accordingly (best would be a constant +5 food surpulus). Start with Workers, because they can be made with less improved tiles around the city. Then do Settlers and Workers as needed. Later do Workers, to add them to slow-growing cities.
  
• Make sure you claim the Spices north, where that Iroquis city sits. You can never have enough luxuries.
  
• I guess Nottingham will not flip by culture, eh?