Training Succession Game 201

[Modo44]

I was thinking of the same Granary city, but one Settler later. The AI can sometimes be blocked by closing your borders, and in this case this can be done by just one city. Otherwise, I wouldn't suggest it - definately favoring quicker food-grabbing.

Now, using Swordesmen... that would be too darned easy.
Definately worth exploring though, as it is a viable strategy sometimes.

[Dominae]

Canterbury is only where it is because of the Iron; the AI places a very high value on Strategic resources when selecting its city location priorities. The area to the South of Canterbury will probably not be settled by the English for quite some time because there is "nothing there", so to speak. So I maintain that the next city to be founded should be near the Cattle.

[Modo44]

I think it's a close call, perhaps too close for my taste. I'd get that border city in first, just to make absolutely sure the English would need to give me War Happiness if they wanted to cross. I never trust the AI in these matters.

I'd say it's a matter of playing style, without a clearly superior strategy, especially with what looks like two Settlers coming out fairly soon. Or is it not?

[Dominae]

Joan could just refuse to leave, and that means war. Despite the happiness boost, I doubt they could survive an attack by the AI at this point. And even if they could, it is so unproductive compared to just building cities and troops to really humiliate the English later on.

Even with two Settlers, I would not go for the area you mention right away. With only two real core cities and very little growth, I would be worrying about more about my economy than a few tiles the English may or may not steal from me.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Dominae
Joan could just refuse to leave, and that means war. Despite the happiness boost, I doubt they could survive an attack by the AI at this point.

Have you ever tried? I bet you have. I bet you know it could be done, especially since the food-poor area is rather suited for an early rush.

Originally posted by Dominae
And even if they could, it is so unproductive compared to just building cities and troops to really humiliate the English later on.

Ahh, but it's fun, and fun is good.

Originally posted by Dominae
Even with two Settlers, I would not go for the area you mention right away. With only two real core cities and very little growth, I would be worrying about more about my economy than a few tiles the English may or may not steal from me.

I see. It is a different approach then. With the slow growth, I'd be more worried about making sure nobody ventures into "my" territory (the unclaimed part ).

[wertyu70]

SOk I played the next 9 turn and now we have a big problem and I need advice...

1475 I'm planning to build the next town on the hill near the cattle.
Worker 1&3 road, Worker2 moved toward the Bg south of Niniveh.
IX corp South
Veteran North

1450 Veteran attacked by barb (we win). Veteran need rest.
Ninivejh buidl warrior (rename him AntiDisorder), start settler. Luxury slider to 0%.
Babylon build settler, start warrior.
IX corp South

1425 Worker 1&2 finished road, moved reast on BG.
Niniveh size 3, rise again the slider.
Worker2 start irrigatin BG to let water flood to cow.

1400 Worker 1&3 road to connect Ashur.

1375 Babylon produced warrior(Antibarb, becuase of two bars near the town), start settler (ready as soon as city expand!)

Ellipi founded on hill, and we got a warrior from the hut.
Ellipi start granary.
IX Corp recovered, move south. Oh NO! Lot of barbs...

1350 Elite recovered, move north.
Worker 1&3 mining BG
IX corp try to survive barbs. So far , so good.

1325 IX Corps surive barbarian attack, move east.
Rise luxury slider bwcuse niniveh is size 4.
Worker 1&3 start road on BG.

1300 HOPS! Two English warrior are near Ashur Border...
Amd One barb is near our worker...
Better to send reinforcement...
I move Antibarb to kill barb (success), next turn he can reach Ashur.
Every warrior are moving to Ashur but they are late...
Slider to 30%

1275 English warrior near Ashur...
Worker moved to second BG. IX Corp near Notthingham.

Ok, here is the screenshot.
What can I do now to avoid the attack?

[wertyu70]

Try again to attach the SCreenshot

[wertyu70]

And the savegame

[dmd175]

I'm on this guys, just taking my time with the turns.

Dom, Modo, PB thanks for the helpful discussion on city selection. While I agree with Dom there is room to expand, my inclination lies with Modo in that we should block the English as soon and as efficiently as possible, e.g. the sugar/lake city site as I had also previously mentioned. One major development that occurred somehow in the last nine turns is that we are now at war with the English, and from the report, I dont' understand how that exactly came to be, but we will deal with it.

[dmd175]

1275 BC (end of turn): Slider luxury knocked to 10%. Don't understand why it was at 30% as nineveh at 10% has 1happy 1 unhappy even with no MP. England can only take Ashur if both warriors beat both our warriors next turn; Ashur is ready to pop rush spear next turn (will grow this turn).

1250 BC: English warrior kills our first warrior defender but is knocked to 1 hp in the process. Our second warrior Antidisorder defends and kills England warrior #2 without loss of hitpoint and is promoted to veteran. England refused envoy. Veteran N. Sent Antibarb toward Ashur. Spear poprushed in Ashur, and Nineveh; cost is lux slider to 10% now.

Conscript warrior N toward wounded English warrior. Somehow IX corps (vet warrior) is SW of Nottigham (vet spear for defense). This does not seem like good attack; however, nothing to pillage around Nottingham either. Maybe there is something to pillage around Canterbury; this will also outflank warriors in/near Canterbury. So IX Corps N.

Worker 1,3 road. Worker 2 towards cow. Settler is automoving to some destination and allowed to do so. However, I have to spare a warrior for its defense from England.

1225 BC: English wounded warrior retreats NW. Babylon makes settler, and spears from Nineveh and Ashur. English refuse envoy.

I have a young man on my military staff who goes only by "Patton". He is a fervent believer in reincarnation and says he has fought the English - as well as Germans, Russians, Italians, etc -- in many past lives on many battlefields, which he recounts in vivid, gory detail. He beseeches me to obey one supreme "'tactical principle' which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." Hence, I will lead Babylon toward this noble goal.

Worker2 roads. IX corps N. Antidisorder, Antibarb, and Conscript to mtn W of Ashur. Veteran to SW of Ashur.

Settler: I don't want to send another settler towards English, in part b/c I hope the settler that is going there was sent by wertyu to a blocking spot and b/c I can't spare defense for it.

Also, I agree with Dom that we need another core production city. Thus plan is for Babylon 998 on the river. In meantime, Nineveh garrison sent to meet up with settler. This requires 30% lux which costs us 2gpt.

1200 BC: Wounded English warrior back into Canterbury. Envoy refused. Three warriors W to Canterbury 3. Antibarb W. IX Corps E.

Worker1 to iron. Worker 3 mining BG.

1175: Envoy refused. England sends archer out NE from Nottingham. IX Corps brutalizes that archer, losing only 1 hp and netting promotion to 3l33t! Envoy refused. Antibarb W. Now we have 3 warriors vs. spear and healing warrior in canterbury. Odds not spectacular, but attacked relying on numerical superiority (hopefully). Antidisorder lost, but Veteran, who since became elite (and renamed Patton's Army), yielded a great leader Agum, appropriately renamed Patton! England still refuses envoy. Patton to Ashur 1. Will go to Ashur to make army. Started moving HomeFry out of Babylon W toward front. They are pop 1 and will not go disorder with 30%. Nineveh MM'd for worker next turn.

Akkad founded at sugar 3. England blocked by our tiles. Uruk at Babylon 998. Whoa...lots of unexpected barbs milling around. Glad I didn't send settler further. Anyway, they are fodder for our elites-in-training, later.

[dmd175]

1150 BC: England sends warrior from Canterbury E; refused envoy. That warrior slain by Patton's army at cost of 2hp. Army created. Spear reached Akkad. Nineveh produces warrior 1150, moved on road to Ashur. Homefry toward Ashur. IX Corp N toward Canterbury, Antibarb holds.
Cow being irrigated.

1125 BC: English archers appear at Nottingham 9 and 877. Envoy refused. IX Corp kills Nott 9 Archer. Antibarb KIA South of Canterbury. Patton's Army -- avenging -- sacks, and razes, Canterbury. 40 gold liberated. I hope we can secure the area with the furs.

[dmd175]

Post-Canterbury, the English grugdingly come to the bargaining table. Will not give a city. Will give alphabet +90, or wheel +58 ; cannot get mysticism, and cannot get two techs. Well, I'm not that happy about what they want to trade me. Also, I want that army to get a victory. OTOH, who knows what the English have coming toward us (ie at least one more archer). Thus, I'll see what happens next turn.

Babylon warrior to Nineveh. Other warriors to Ashur; plan to load army with veteran warrior.

1100 BC: Ur (sumeria) completes Oracle. Looks like another spear built in Nottingham.

English: waiting one turn helped with diplomacy/bargaining. Now, still can't get city but Hastings is "getting close" whereas all were doubtful before. Can get mysticism now, or alpha and 177 gold, or wheel and 138 gold, but cannot get two techs yet. Would you guys comment on your views on how the relative bargaining position is affected? Nothing really happened since last turn except moved more warriors toward England and built one more warrior.

Ok, first thing I did this turn was to load HomeFry, a veteran warrior, alone, into the army.

Army is now 8/8, I guess this is AU modding with increase HP and reduce capacity.

IX Corp NE. Patton's rest/fortify. 1150 W. 1100 warrior W. Army SW.

1075BC: English request audience. Very slightly less favorable trade, ie alphabet and 158 gold. Archer now Nottingham 8. However, IX Corps beats him into oblivion, no hp loss. 1150, 1100, and army all west.

England will now give us Hastings (+ zero gold)!

We have four warriors and 1 army. Is that enough to attack London London is making colossus, and presumably won't be making units. That leaves York and Hastings, but Hastings seems kinda non productive from what I can see of it. It would be about 4 turns until our units can hit London. I think I can hold off any units from Nottingham with a spear/warrior in Akkad.


1050 BC: England will still give Hastings, and now alpha plus wheel or alpha plus myst is "close" to deal. Worker 2 to BG E of Ellipi, Worker 1 SW roading to Akkad. All offensive units rolling to London 2 (hill).

1025 BC: England archer 7 of Nottingham, ignored, all units to London. Just thinking - I could wait until London builds Colossus and then capture.

1000 BC: ARcher N. I have regular 1100 warrior kill him, -2hp. Units converging... TWo settlers next turn!

975 BC: settlers from bab, nine. Baby to temple. Nineveh settler to former canterbury site. Babylon settler to Babylon 322 to claim fish and hopefully some good production with hills/mtn. Unfortunately, lux not lowered b/c of Ellipi (no MP, working on granary)

Liz offers myst and 160 when I send envoy. Bah! All gold and all techs is more like it. They will give Hastings, OR alpha/wheel. As an aside/partial answer to my own question, I have found that putting troops on enemy territory/closer to enemy cities helps improve my bargaining position. Anyone else find that too? Makes sense.

950 BC: Salamanca=pyramids. We hook up iron resource. England runs archer, probably from york, to London 3. Basically same on negotiation except will also give myst/wheel. IX Corps chosen to attack the archer. Unbelievable , a second great leader arises!! = Sumabum, who is sent 336 to join warrior on the mtn. Will send to Babylon for HE?

Army attacks London, sustains 4 hp damage, promoted, in taking out spear#1. England will give now myst and 220.

Warrior/worker moving W of Ashur to new fur city site.

925 BC: Moving warriors away from London to heal.

900 BC: Eridu founded. LONDON CAPTURED!!

[dmd175]

London gave 66 gold, but five resisters. Capital is now Hastings. Will not trade York or Nottingham. Will however trade all techs (alpha, wheel, myst and 35 gold). We now have broken the English. Only downside is I wish I could have captured Colossus - too risky to wait period, and also because someone else could have built it and there would have been corruption.

Anyway, we have lebensraum E and S of London. After London resistance is crushed, I can use warriors to try to block off as much as possible and we can settle hopefully much of this area.

A bit premature, but I think the English threat, which was very ominous centuries ago, has mostly disappeared (though we should be ever vigilant). I choose to make peace to gain the free techs, and note that we will prepare to finish England, honorably, at the conclusion of the cease fire 20 turns from now. English contacted, peace made for alpha/myst/wheel and 35. Wheel reveals horses near Ellipi and Nottingham. After the trade, I note that England has math and poly. With the peace, lux can go to 10%. I then chose to research writing now, 50% sci = 14 turn pace and 3gpt (we have 320 in treasury) vs 50 turn pace and 11gpt.

875 BC: Citizens ask for FP. Given that FP is not really a second palace anymore, and placement is much less significant than just building the damn thing, our available leader is better spent on the FP than HE. Both have same shield cost. Question is where to build FP.

Somebody mentioned 3d ring city...which on this map is likely a bit farther out than Nottingham, but maybe not quite London. Tentatively I will schedule this FP to be built in London, so I will send leader out that way now.

Samarra founded on fur. One resister left in London

850 BC: London resistance ended, but dying of flood p(l)ain disease. England says hi, no trade for poly/math.

825 BC:
800 BC: Archer now 69 of London? Broken cease fire upcoming? If so, buh bye England.

Ummm, just realized how many turns I played. ..it is now turn 88...sorry, got caught up in warmongering glee. I'll play two more to get to a multiple of 10, and will reluctantly stop for now.

Tried to MM Ellipi's granary, but too late to knock a turn off.

775 BC: Furs now connected. Was able to drop lux to 0, put that into sci, and shave 2 turns off writing (6 turns away). Nineveh settler sent 888 to get gems and leave room for core cities to its SE and SW. England building colossus in Hastings - maybe we'll in fact have a chance to capture it.

750 BC: Retirement. Looks like that English archer is merely exploring S of London. England will not take all our gold 343 and 4gpt for either math or poly. Try again later for these techs.

[dmd175]

I'm supposed to be studying for an oral exam and written exam on Friday...huh, priorities

[wertyu70]

dmd175, I try to explain something about the game I post yesterday.
the luxury slider was 30% because in 1325 Niniveh was size 4 so I rised it. Then Niniveh produced a settler but I forget to turn it down because I was too worry of English.
The settler was aiming to the lake near English border,
I want to build a town there to block their expansion.

I'm glad you could manage to win the combat.
Yesterdy, after I post the game, I played some more turns and in my game the 2 English warrior defeated my two warrior in Ashur and the city was destroyed...