Training Succession Game 201

[punkbass2000]

Welcome to TSG 201: Ancient Empires

Upon successful completion of TSG 101: Expansion, a new course has been started for those with passing grades and those from other fields with advanced experience

All starting conditions are the same, except we will be using the latest text, AU 1.07 and will be learning about Emperors as opposed to Monarchs. "How did they rule?", "What affected their decisions and strategies in economics, military and growth?" and "Why did some empires fall while others prospered?" will be central questions and themes for this course.

Here is where our featured civ for this course, the Babylonians began their rise to glory in 4000BC. They knew little of the surroundings, at the time.

[punkbass2000]

_

[punkbass2000]

For those very keen students auditing the course but not participating, here are the readings and homework for this course. Let me know as you complete each assignment and also how you do on the example test

[punkbass2000]

4000BC Tired of their nomadic wanderings and seeing lush grasslands, fertile plains and majestic rivers nearby, the Babylonians decided to settle their known lands and explore the nearby surroundings a bit. A momentous festival was thrown as a result of sighting fresh grapes growing indigenously to the E.

The Babylonians had trouble coming up with a good name for their capital, until one clever cynic shouted, "How about Babylon?! That would be REAL original!" at a town meeting. He was immeditely crowned the chief Science advisor as the people rejoiced in the streets, chanting "WE LIVE IN BABYLON". The cynic continued to annoy the populace declaring, "BABELLAND RULES!"

The Military Advisor also gave a succinct speech with his mighty axe about why Babylon should build a warrior. One dissenter was quickly slain and a unanimous vote ensued.

A band of conservatives, not wanting to be confined by the pressures of big city life struck out on their own to the S, calling themselves 'Worker1'. They were out of town before the Military advisor had a chance to charge them with draft dodging, as well as a sharp spear that he'd been working during the last few months of nomadic wanderings.

Oh, and the lazy Science Advisor drunkenly mumbled something about working on a new technology that would bring the people of Babylon a metal even greater than Bronze and that he was sure he'd have it on the Emperor's desk in 50 years, tops, with proper funding. The Emperor laughed in his face, made a few pessimistic comments about the national treasury and how things were gonna be tight before tossing him a single gold coin and chortling, "Here, use that for the next 50 years." Taken quite aback, the SA recomposed himself and snidely retorted, "Oh yeah, I'll get RIGHT to work on that Iron Working thing. Should be ready in a couple millenia".

[wertyu70]

Three quick questions from a greenhorn:
1) Why you didn't move the worker on the hill NW of start position before founding Babylon?
2) Why 8.2.0?
3) Why Iron Working and not a beeline toward Philosophy?

Maybe my questions are stupid, but I'm here to learn my lesson...

[punkbass2000]

3950BC Worker1 begins mine. MA still insinuates they're trying to hide underground, both metaphorically and literally.

3750BC Lead by the general 'Lewis', the mightiest band of warriors ever seen by the Babylonians is trained after much waiting and anticipation. A grand festival is thrown as a going away party. Many believe that they will never see these intrepid warriors again, especially as dragons and ogres likely in habit the lands outside of their knowledge. They are, however, couth enough not mention their concerns until the eager and naive young warriors are out of earshot. Attracted by their intoxicating aroma, the foolish young boys head immediately E towards the grape-laden groves.

Having gained favour by performing many useful tasks for the Emperor, the Domestic Advisor notes to the Emperor how the "rebels" have nearly completed their mine and it appears the citizen's production will likely double upon completion of the task. Considering his growing population, the Emperor decides that perhaps another group of "workers" would benefit his city and quell the mounting cases of public drunk and disorderly.

3700BC Reportedly, Lewis finds nothing but water E of the grapes and decides to change course and towards warmer climates to the N.

3650BC Suddenly realizing how well the DA characterized the increase in productivity caused by the completion of the mine, the Emperor orders that the Workers being trained have their shovels taken and replaced by handaxes.
Worker1 begins road.

3550BC Lead by the fearless 'Clark', another band of warriors prepares to head W to further the knowledge of the Babylonian people. Just as the going away festival was concluding, Hammurabi called Clark into his Palace. He told him how public riots were becoming increasingly common and that the coffers were simply too empty to pay both Clark's salary as well as to pay for luxuries the keep his city from falling into disrepair. Clark initially ran off into hills in the name of exploration, but soon begrudgingly followed Hammurabi's orders and set up camp on the outskirts of the city. Hammurabi assured him it wouldn't be very long before he would be able to get rid of the "gullible riffraff" by simply giving the "great offer" of allowing them to live in exile on the city's outskirts, completing various, well-paid tasks.
Erstwhile, Lewis, henceforth known as 'Lewis the bungler', managed to break several of a nearby tribes most highly held customs and to even accidentally walk on a sacred rug, resulting in Hurrian raids of his expedition party that could be expected for years to come.

3500BC Lewis' party took heave losses from a barbarian raids this year and was reduced to 1/3 of his original expedition. It was estimated that it would take at least 100 years of constant rest for his men to regain their former strength.
Finally feeling a sense of national pride, as well as becoming more comfortable with their area of settlement, the people of Babylon were finally willing to work more than just a few miles from the city and were seen in the highly productive grasslands to the SW.
Attempting to distance themselves further from Babylon, Worker1 continued W upon finishing their road. An increase in trade was noted by Babylon's Finance Minister.

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by wertyu70
Three quick questions from a greenhorn:
1) Why you didn't move the worker on the hill NW of start position before founding Babylon?

Though not a bad move, and certainly not "incorrect", per se, I personally don't tend to like to move my initial settler without a particularly good reason. Every turn at the beginning of the game is crucial and cannot afford to be wasted. I will move my settler no more than one square, generally speaking, and only if I see a cow or something extremely valuable. As this was already a pretty nice start I didn't see a need to go anywhere and I also didn't want to waste three worker turns moving to the hill and then back down to the BG, which is clearly the initial tile of choice for my citizens. Incidentally, I also did not move my settler to the hill because, despite the defensive bonus, there are only a few hills arounf and I will want all of them for production later; the defensive bonus shouldn't even come up for my capital unless we're going to lose anyway.

2) Why 8.2.0?

This is the most money I can make while still producing 1 beaker per turn (bpt). IMO, if you have not mastered Emperor then you should not even begin to try to do self-research; you should be buying and trading for techs. Even if you have mastered Emperor a 50-turn pace can still be advisable for your first tech, especially if its second tier, as you can't get it a whole lot faster than 50 turns anyway, as both Dom and I demonstrated in our tangents in the original TSG, and that was only Monarch.

EDIT: This page of TSG contains both mine and Dom's research. Neither of us states exactly when we achieved Writing, but at 2110BC (40 turns in) Dom't 29 turns from Phil and I'm still 38 away. As you can see, we probably didn't achieve Writing for at least 30 or 35 turns anyway.

3) Why Iron Working and not a beeline toward Philosophy?

Quite frankly, without a Com/Sea civ (ie. one that starts with Alph.), we don't have a good chance at being first to Phil anyway, especially as we're new at this level. Also, IW has more immediate benefits (particularly having Iron become visible) than Writing, which only gives embassies and preqs. In addition, being able to research IW right off the bat is one of the main advantages of having a Sci civ. It will have slightly less trading value than Writing, and I would pick Writing if we started with both Alph and BW, as it would be more likely for us to have a Writing monopoly than an IW monopoly. As it stands, we're really more looking for an important, expensive tech that we won't have to pay for and may be able to trade to at least some civs.

Maybe my questions are stupid, but I'm here to learn my lesson...

No such thing as a stupid question, and you hit the nail on the head: we're here to learn. By the same token, please don't take any criticisms I may have of your play to heart.

If you like, you can play the next ten turns:

[Modo44]

[EDIT: Checked the first post again... ]

With the AU Mod, a Philosophy beeline should still be possible. All it would need is Alphabet from a trade...

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by punkbass2000
All starting conditions are the same, except we will be using the latest text, AU 1.07

[Arrian]

Just one quick comment:

Why not irrigate/road a plains tile first, and then double back to the bonus grassland?

Mining/roading the bgrass takes 9 turns. Movement across the river takes another. At that point, Babylon hits size 2, and now must use a 2f, 0s tile, or a 1f, 1s tile. Whereas the other way 'round, it can use two 2f, 1s tiles.

Just a thought.

-Arrian

[punkbass2000]

There are two BGs available upon culture expansion/pop growth. (The worker is covering the one that has just become available)

[Modo44]

Also, by mining the BG tile you get the 2spt sooner, even if you'll use an unmined Grassland tile for the second citizen. Namely, you get it after 7 turns (move Worker, build Mine), not 10 (grow city to size 2). That's more than half a Warrior saved, even not counting the second BG.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by punkbass2000
There are two BGs available upon culture expansion/pop growth. (The worker is covering the one that has just become available)

Oh, nevermind then. Carry on.

-Arrian

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by Modo44
[EDIT: Checked the first post again... ]

With the AU Mod, a Philosophy beeline should still be possible. All it would need is Alphabet from a trade...

Nonetheless, I don't like to rely on unreliable things and either way, I don't want to be researching Alph. If, in a normal game I was playing, when I complete IW, I was able to trade for Writing immediately and knew that Writing had been researched relatively recently (ie. I've had Alph by now for a bit) I would consider rushing Phil, but even then, it's a risk. If I don't get that free tech it's not a very useful tech. MoM is an expensive free cathedral and other than that all I get is the preq for Rep, which I would still need CoL for anyway and I can get both through trading if I research something the AI doesn't have, like maybe Constr or some such.

[Modo44]

C'm on. Like I had to tell you how easy it is to get Philosophy with the AU Mod.

But I agree that getting Iron Working now, instead of trying to go Alphabet -> Writing, should get you into a good trading position.