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Looking at the Iron Civer rules, it seems to me that a lot of what is there is aimed at ways two or more human players can cooperate in dirty tricks, and is therefore unnecessary in a game like AU 601 where there are only two human players and those two are in essence enemies. In my game with Theseus, I'm suggesting that we use a stripped-down version, and I thought I'd give the discussion its own thread in case others are interested in getting involved in the discussion.
Is any of this really needed in a game with only two humans and those humans as rivals/enemies? Unless I'm missing something, the fact that AIs won't cooperate in such strategies should be sufficient to keep them in check.
Makes about as much sense in a 2-player context as otherwise, although some of it may be less relevant.
Makes as much sense in a 2-player context as otherwise.
Actually, unless my memory is completely messed up, you can't teleport by abandoning a city.
City-gifting is a lot more exploitable in conventional MP games than it is with only two human players who are rivals. The big problem in conventional MP is the possibility of arranging for cities to change hands back and forth. But AIs won't give a city back, and a human opponent won't accept the gift unless he considers it in his best interest to do so.
Thus, I would be inclined to allow normal gifting of cities the same as in SP play with one possible exception: giving a city that is about to be attacked by a human opponent to an AI. Considering how reluctant AIs are to allow human troops to cross their territory in the absence of a ROP agreement, allowing that tactic might be a bit too much of an exploit for putting a barrier in an attacker's path.
I don't see any special considerations for games with only two players here (although Theseus and I are planning to allow production-phase maneuvering).
Nothing special about 2-player, although it's presumably not relevant when an AI goes last.
I don't see anything special about these issues for 2-player games compared with games involving more than two players.
Originally posted by Rommel2D
Regular and bold words give the basic exploit information and rules to prevent them. Red, underlined words are the specific exploits covered. Royalblue, italicized words are etiquette points mostly, meant to add to the game if agreed to, but not necessary to avoid the most damaging exploits.
Preamble
It is understood that everyone participating is doing so to enhance their enjoyment of the game and share this enjoyment with others. These rules are not designed to prohibit someone who does not play with the spirit of sportsmanship from gaining undue advantage, only the vigilance of the community can hope to accomplish this. The aim of these rules are to present a common ground from which a fair challnge is presented to all, subject to the intended random elements of the game.
Reloading a turn to correct manual errors is Ok, as long as no unexplored or fog-of-war tiles are revealed and no combat has taken place. Any instance of reloading should be reported in the tracker thread.
Definitions
'game turn'= sequence begun when first player in order starts turn and ended when last player clicks 'save & exit'
'production phase'= part of the individual's turn immediately after loading, lasting until player is free to select and move units. In the "it's not a bug, it's a feature" department, any time the map is blacked out, it is still the production phase. :-)
1 Intertribal cooperation
1-1 Players shall not conspire to use irregularities of the game engine's turn sequence to gain extra use from units or resources. They shall not declare frivilous wars. Deals shall not be canceled on the same game turn as they are made unless due to a legitimate war. Resources intentionally removed from a trade network cannot be reconnected to that network on the same game turn. Players shall not make deals that include money they will not pay for.
1-1.1 Getting double-duty out of artillery and Workers
1-1.2 Sharing a Luxury or Strategic resource
1-1.3 Generating Leaders and Golden Ages by sacrificing cheap units
1-1.4 Declaring war for happiness
1-1.5 Inflation bug
2-0.2 Accepting a Peace Treaty from a civ then immediately declaring war
Regular and bold words give the basic exploit information and rules to prevent them. Red, underlined words are the specific exploits covered. Royalblue, italicized words are etiquette points mostly, meant to add to the game if agreed to, but not necessary to avoid the most damaging exploits.
Preamble
It is understood that everyone participating is doing so to enhance their enjoyment of the game and share this enjoyment with others. These rules are not designed to prohibit someone who does not play with the spirit of sportsmanship from gaining undue advantage, only the vigilance of the community can hope to accomplish this. The aim of these rules are to present a common ground from which a fair challnge is presented to all, subject to the intended random elements of the game.
Reloading a turn to correct manual errors is Ok, as long as no unexplored or fog-of-war tiles are revealed and no combat has taken place. Any instance of reloading should be reported in the tracker thread.
Definitions
'game turn'= sequence begun when first player in order starts turn and ended when last player clicks 'save & exit'
'production phase'= part of the individual's turn immediately after loading, lasting until player is free to select and move units. In the "it's not a bug, it's a feature" department, any time the map is blacked out, it is still the production phase. :-)
1 Intertribal cooperation
1-1 Players shall not conspire to use irregularities of the game engine's turn sequence to gain extra use from units or resources. They shall not declare frivilous wars. Deals shall not be canceled on the same game turn as they are made unless due to a legitimate war. Resources intentionally removed from a trade network cannot be reconnected to that network on the same game turn. Players shall not make deals that include money they will not pay for.
1-1.1 Getting double-duty out of artillery and Workers
1-1.2 Sharing a Luxury or Strategic resource
1-1.3 Generating Leaders and Golden Ages by sacrificing cheap units
1-1.4 Declaring war for happiness
1-1.5 Inflation bug
2-0.2 Accepting a Peace Treaty from a civ then immediately declaring war
1-2 Players shall not exchange in-game information until they are represented on each other's foreign advisor's screen. They shall not exchange graphic map information before both have knowledge of Navigation.
a) In diplomacy without an embassy between the Tribes, a player may only offer technology already known by their Tribe. They may not offer or ask for unknown techs.
b) Players shall not coordinate military action unless an alliance is formally declared in the foreign advisor's screen.
c) Players shall not make reference to specific distances or directions until both have knowledge of Map Making.
d) Players shall not make Mutual Protection Pacts or Trade Embargoes unless they are declared in the foreign advisor's screen.
1-2.1 Exchanging map/minimap information before Navigation.
a) In diplomacy without an embassy between the Tribes, a player may only offer technology already known by their Tribe. They may not offer or ask for unknown techs.
b) Players shall not coordinate military action unless an alliance is formally declared in the foreign advisor's screen.
c) Players shall not make reference to specific distances or directions until both have knowledge of Map Making.
d) Players shall not make Mutual Protection Pacts or Trade Embargoes unless they are declared in the foreign advisor's screen.
1-2.1 Exchanging map/minimap information before Navigation.
2. Intertribal conflicts
2-1 Players shall not rename units or cities to disguise the content of unit stacks or diplomatic offers.
2-1 Players shall not rename units or cities to disguise the content of unit stacks or diplomatic offers.
2-2 Cities may be offered diplomatically only as part of a peace treaty.
2-2.1 Teleporting units by abandoning or gifting cities
2-2.1 Teleporting units by abandoning or gifting cities
City-gifting is a lot more exploitable in conventional MP games than it is with only two human players who are rivals. The big problem in conventional MP is the possibility of arranging for cities to change hands back and forth. But AIs won't give a city back, and a human opponent won't accept the gift unless he considers it in his best interest to do so.
Thus, I would be inclined to allow normal gifting of cities the same as in SP play with one possible exception: giving a city that is about to be attacked by a human opponent to an AI. Considering how reluctant AIs are to allow human troops to cross their territory in the absence of a ROP agreement, allowing that tactic might be a bit too much of an exploit for putting a barrier in an attacker's path.
3. The individual turn
3-1 Players may only use drop-down menus to make changes during the 'production phase'. They should not zoom to cities or advisor screens from the pop-up boxes.
3-1.1 Using F1 to change production during the 'production phase'
3-1.2 Using city screen's arrow keys to change production during the 'production phase'
3-1 Players may only use drop-down menus to make changes during the 'production phase'. They should not zoom to cities or advisor screens from the pop-up boxes.
3-1.1 Using F1 to change production during the 'production phase'
3-1.2 Using city screen's arrow keys to change production during the 'production phase'
3-2 Last player in turn sequence shall not use the GoTo command's double movement to gain strategic advantage over an opponent.
3-2.1 Using GoTo to get extra movement
3-2.1 Using GoTo to get extra movement
4. Options
4-1 Naval chains are allowed unless players agree otherwise in advance.
4-1.1 Chaining naval transports to quickly move land units across water
4-2 If players agree to it in advance, the offensive player in a battle must send a combat report listing the resulting details to the defender.
4-1 Naval chains are allowed unless players agree otherwise in advance.
4-1.1 Chaining naval transports to quickly move land units across water
4-2 If players agree to it in advance, the offensive player in a battle must send a combat report listing the resulting details to the defender.