Armies: Bad news

[player1]

Interesting.
I run several more tests, now with moding MA exactly as in AU mods (exempt the cost of armies).
And as far as I've seen, there are much more active armies (around 70%-80% or so).

And that's the great difference compared to "armies per 15 turns with Palace" combo (maybe 10-20% active armies). What exaclty governs AI "activation" of armies is still unknown, but I think that AU mod did it better then I first anticipated.


Possibile theories:
-railroads?
-not too quick frequency of getting new armies (25 turns)?
-abudance of mobile units (like Cavalry or Knights)?
-low attack/high defense setup (so AI activates armies in order to break city defenses)?

[Antrine]

'-abundance of mobile units (like Cavalry or Knights) coupled with railroads.'

That is my illustrious opinion !

You can increase frequency various ways as long the above conditions are met and still see more increased activity. My opinion oh and make sure also there are fast moving defensive units available, piles of them. It seems the AI favor coming out with them 'escorting' filled armies. I have seen 10-15 AI armies in same area more than once. And they are always escort to and from battle.

[Theseus]

Yeah, without really examining the details, my anecdotal report would be that KAIs with many many many units seem to use Armies, and use them better. This is all just based on my playing of AU 503, but when I see 50 to 100 AI Tanks (YAY!) in action, it seems that AI Armies are in greater abundance. And later... 4xMA Armies!!!

I wept with joy, and then destroyed them.

[If any Firaxians are around, I *still* say you need to bring alexman on board!!]

[player1]

about

-low attack/high defense setup (so AI activates armies in order to break city defenses)?

theory

I've seen in a recent game that super KAI with had modern armor, never bothered with armies, while other AIs with were in Cavarlry/Inanftry phase used them often.

Also once weaker AIs which was on defensive and losing the war, never bothered with filling his 2 armies he got.

Just a theory.

[player1]

Hmph

I run another test.
Now compared to last one (which had 40 cost armies, same as AU otherwise), this one fetures 400 cost armies and ability of MA to make armies better.

Now results are bad. Only 20-40% active armies.

I still need to test does it had something to do with Better Armies flag, or numerical cost of armies.

P.S.
Or maybe it's just a bad luck?

[Action]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3136297&t=2106

An option you might want to consider. It gives the AI free armies while not giving the human any free armies, and it works on random maps.

There are some drawbacks with the starting techs, the human will no longer be able to get his default civ specific techs, he'd have to be assigned some, but it seems like it'd be worth the trade off.

[player1]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118505

Some new discoveries about passive 1-unit filled armies.
And you are not going to like it.

It seams that some original Civ3 "legacy" code prevents filling those armies.

Appearently, Soren designed armies in such way that AI never adds unit in army that is slower then army itself.

That was fine in PtW and original Civ3.
Don't add warrior in army already filled with 2 horsemen.

But, in C3C, beacuse armies get +1 move and code didn't got changed it gives devastating effects.

Example1:
Lets say that AI added Archer into his first army.
Now army has movment of 2.
AI won't add new 1-move units into the army since army now has movment of 2.

So army stays passive unitl AI gets Horsemen or Knights.
When these get avaiable you get filled 1 archer, 2 horsemen/knight armies.

Example2:
Lets say that AI added Horsemen into his new army.
Now army has movment of 3.
AI won't add new Horse units into the army since army now has movment of 3.

So army stays passive unitl AI gets Cavarly.
And then you get army filled 1 horsmen, 2 Cavarly.

Example3:
AI adds Cavarly or Modern Armor into his new army.
It never gets filled since there are no units with movement of 4.

[player1]

So the final throuth arbout AI 1Infantry/3Cavarly armies.
AI adds offense flaged Inanftry into the army.
Army gets movement rate of 2, so no new infantrues will be added.
AI adds Cavalry to fill the army.

Or 1Tank/3MA or 1Tank/3Cavarly armies.
(same for 1knight/3Cavarly armies)
AI adds Tank into the army.
Army gets movement rate of 3, so no new Tanks will be added.
AI adds Cavalry or Modern Armor to fill the army.

[player1]

In conclusion, it's not possibile to make AI have no some passive armies.
If first unit added into the army is slow, army will eventualy get filled.

But, if first unit added in the army is very fast, its possibile that it never gets filled.

P.S.
Giving back Mech. Infantry offense AI flag could help AI a little, since then, if such offense Mech. Infantry starts the army, it will eventualy get filled with Modern Armor.

[alexman]

Great job figuring it out, player1!
Thanks!

[Strollen]

Player 1 good research. Interesting to see what happens when a 2nd company does an expansion pack. Breakaway did a pretty good job on C3C, but missing the code that prevents armies from being filled with the same speed units is a real bug.


That said Thesus and my experience in AU 503, and my experience in a random map with the AU mod for mil academy. The AI does use armies moderately effectively with the mod. Although it is clear that a fair number of AI armies are pretty useless. I guess if it puts in a Cav in an army that pretty much makes the army useless.

[Theseus]

player1, you are correct, sir.

This seems to be a 3xMA+Tank Indian Army.

(Not to fear, folks, mine ain't 4xCavs... it's Tank+3xCavs. )

[Kuciwalker]

I like your city names

[Theseus]

Well, I was pretty worked up over this IC invasion...

[Kuciwalker]

What'd they ever do to you?