AU mod: Philosophy

[lockstep]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
the only thing i don't like, is the great difference between republic (14) and monarchy (24)... that makes monarchy 70% more expensive to research!

I have to agree. Swapping tech costs from Republic to Philosophy seems like a good idea, but a change of -/+14 may have a lot of unintended side effects regarding the AI's research pattern. I'd try -/+8 or -/+10 at first.

[alexman]

Originally posted by lockstep

a change of -/+14 may have a lot of unintended side effects regarding the AI's research pattern.

This is one thing we don't have to worry about. The AI research preferences are completely under control.

[nbarclay]

I still think getting rid of the free tech from Philosophy is both a more conservative change and a more effective one than this kind of major surgery on the tech tree.

Regarding players who go after Monarchy, the strategy of beelining for Polytheism, trading for Writing, researching Philosophy, and getting Monarchy as a free tech could work quite nicely under Alexman's latest proposal if a player can pull it off. Philosophy would provide a very valuable tech for trading purposes without the player's having to give up his monopoly on Monarchy. In contrast, a straight Monarchy beeline would leave the player with nothing but Monarchy itself to trade for techs he skipped while pursuing the beeline. Add to that the fact that Philosophy would be slightly cheaper than Monarchy.

Nathan

[Dominae]

I agree with Nathan: just remove the free tech from Philosophy. None of us would be happy about this, because we all love the tech lead, but it's the only change that actually meets all the goals of the AU mod.


Dominae

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Dominae
I agree with Nathan: just remove the free tech from Philosophy. None of us would be happy about this, because we all love the tech lead, but it's the only change that actually meets all the goals of the AU mod.

I won't say I'd be entirely happy about it, but I would certainly be content. It's one of those things that is good for the game even though it undercuts those of us who like Ultimate Power.

Do we want to put Alexman's idea of reworking tech costs and, as an alternative, removing the free tech under consideration for inclusion in the Mod for our first game? Or do we want to save tinkering with Philosophy for a future version?

[Dominae]

Here is my ranking (despite my dislike of the ranking system!):

1. E, Remove free technology.
2. A, No change.

.
.
.
.
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3. B, Make optional.
4. C, Remove half the cost of Republic, and add it to Philosophy.
5. D, Make optional, and adjust costs as in C).


Dominae

[alexman]

OK it's Friday in much of the World, so let's vote.

My order of preference:
D) Make optional, and adjust costs as in C).
B) Make optional
A) No change
E) Remove free technology.
C) Remove half the cost of Republic, and add it to Philosophy.

[lockstep]

(best)

D) Make optional, and adjust costs as in C)
B) Make optional
A) No change
C) Remove half the cost of Republic, and add it to Philosophy
E) Remove free technology

(worst)

[Theseus]

DBCAE

[Stuie]

B) Make optional
A) No change
D) Make optional, and adjust costs as in C).
C) Remove half the cost of Republic, and add it to Philosophy.
E) Remove free technology.

[Nor Me]

DABEC

[alexman]

Originally posted by Dominae

1. Not required for era advancement
2. Removed half the cost of the Republic, and added it to Philosophy.

This is pretty bad. Let's see:

a. It does not increase strategic options, because it's still the best move to rush for Philosophy and get a free tech on the way to Republic (Code of Laws).

b. It does not really help the AI, because all it does is slow the human player down. The AI will still not compete for Philosophy. If anything, it will reach the Medieval era faster and start on that tree, increasing the time it's not in Republic.

c. It does not preserve the feel of the stock game, for rather obvious reasons.

d. It does nothing else the AU mod was designed to do.

Although I admit there's a problem with Philosophy being too strong, I would rather we just had left it the way it is than play cut and paste with the tech tree (and still fail to solve the problem).

[Dominae]

Thanks alexman. I assume it's okay to disagree with choices the panel made, after the fact?


Dominae

[alexman]

Of course it's OK. It's even better if you have a new proposal though!

[Dominae]

Yes, I know, it's infinitely easier to criticize. I'm just trying to get a handle on all these changes we've just implemented...I'll try to suggest some stuff myself later.


Dominae