AUSG101 - Diplomatic Solo Path

[Mountain Sage]

Why don't we, and others, create a PP / diplomatic team for the next AUSG play.
My Spaceship team is already planning to conquer the galaxy

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
Why don't we, and others, create a PP / diplomatic team for the next AUSG play.
My Spaceship team is already planning to conquer the galaxy

Yes, I read Alexman's DAR1 and thought "blimey, MS is gonna have problems with that".

If we did have a diplo team the members would have to be commited to a PP style, and experienced at it, or the interpretation might be "lets eliminate all opponents so there's no-one else to vote for".

I couldn't bear to see thousands of years of patient diplomacy undone in an instant.

[Cort Haus]

Build Roster:

Mecca : Scout, Granary, Warrior, Spear, Settler, Spear, Settler, Spear, Settler
Medina : Spearman, Walls
Damascus : Granary
Baghdad : Worker


(edit: added Baghdad)

[Cort Haus]

Main features of this block:

The second settler from a hut, the decision to go for the furs near Japan with it, and the resulting focus that will require.

GPT Gifts to enemies to (a) keep them from war - especially Japan, whose furs I've settled and (b) longer term relations

[alexman]

It's not my fault that the fastest way to get through the tech tree is to get your empire up to a good size! In order to have a peaceful game, you need to set an additional constraint of no aggressive war, or something.

By the way, the strategy to get a fast diplomatic vote is identical to the strategy to get a fast spaceship launch. These two victory types are almost identical in that they require you to get through the tech tree as fast as possible.

So Cort Haus, perhaps you would like to join the spaceship team, and split to get a Diplomatic victory as soon as the tech for the UN approaches?

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
Why don't we, and others, create a PP / diplomatic team for the next AUSG play.
My Spaceship team is already planning to conquer the galaxy

Not the world, only the land mass we occupy.

[Solomwi]

To avoid war.

That's a shame, because those Japanese, just from looking at the screenshot, seem like an Arrian Deception waiting to happen.

[Cort Haus]

Thanks for the invite Alexman . I was mightily impressed by your DAR1 (I haven't read the second block yet), especially your approach to the 4-turn settler pump. I just disagree about the interpretation of victory conditions.

Victory conditions do not have an expiry date before 2050, and IMO ultra-early victory dates are like ultra-high scores. Nice, but not my prime objective.

For me the prime objective is to have fun by picking a strategy and following it through to victory, regardless of how efficient it is.

No doubt the fastest way to win Civ by any victory type is to empty the home continent of rivals before meeting the other civs. That means that all three teams should persue identical early strategies. (Kill everyone you can see.)

All the more reason to have one player, maybe only a fraction as good as the ultra-efficient ones on the other teams, but at least offering some strategic variety. By the mid-late game, all teams should own their continent (and have the game check-mate and effectively over) while I'll still be fending off my rivals and desperately seeking someone who'll trade me coal.

So yes, I'm setting myself the same constraint that I do on most of my builder games - no aggressive war. I should have made this clear at the top.

There's a fair chance that the AU mod will crush me later, but that's the chance I'll have to take.

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by alexman
It's not my fault that the fastest way to get through the tech tree is to get your empire up to a good size! In order to have a peaceful game, you need to set an additional constraint of no aggressive war, or something.

Just to remind you that my PUP 'rules of engagement' are different from Arrian's UP.

Basically: UP is to conquer the continent and possibly much more to get the most of luxuries, resources, GL (= wonders) and then to build peacefully for the few remaining turns.

PUP (Pragmatic Ultimate Power) is to conquer only enough lebensraum to have a viable empire, then build and trade and... whatever, peacefully (if possible, war is never excluded).

In our case: Alexman is going the UP way. I would have pruned back the American a bit, but kept Japan and America as vassal states.

I like Alexman sense of humor: Arabia has 19 cities (soon to be 25+), Japan 6 or 7, America 12 or 13 (soon down to 6-7) and he STILL wants 'to get your empire up to a good size'
Oh, don't forget the Arrian's deception!

Again,

P.S.
Cort Haus: PUP's of the world, unite!

[alexman]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Victory conditions do not have an expiry date before 2050, and IMO ultra-early victory dates are like ultra-high scores. Nice, but not my prime objective.

Yes, I stand corrected. In the spaceship team we have set the goal of the fastest possible launch, which requires a more aggressive approach. Your goal is quite different.

Mountain Sage, for a fast launch we need just enough land to be able to sustain a 4-turn research for the duration of the game, and I don't think PUP can achieve that. 4-turn research usually involves two solid cores, but doesn't require all the bells and whistles of UP.

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by alexman

Mountain Sage, for a fast launch we need just enough land to be able to sustain a 4-turn research for the duration of the game, and I don't think PUP can achieve that. 4-turn research usually involves two solid cores, but doesn't require all the bells and whistles of UP.

I agree with you, of course, but the thought of not leaving behind fully equipped and state-of-the-art metropolis is just too to contemplate...

[Cort Haus]

What we're doing here is imposing extra victory conditions or objectives on ourselves is to take the victory types to their logical conclusions.

In a genuinely competitive SS race, time would be of the essense, so the lets-get-the-swords-out solution to create a near-optimum size economy is a competitive and rational approach. You know you can beat the AI without the optimisation, but the extra goal is to achieve it in style.

Likewise, the theoretical goal of a peaceful diplowin can be grabbed with cynical alliances and MPPs by the most bloodthirsty civ, but there's more satisfaction from doing it in style - and with the goal of attaining sufficient power to win without waging aggressive war and with the additional goal of avoiding all war if possible.

MS - I find the PUP definition confusing. It's either pragmatic, or it's ultimate, but not both, as I understand the meaning of the two words. Pragmatic Power would make perfect sense, but then that's PP which you want to use for 'Perfect Peacenik'. Something has to give

[Cort Haus]

How about PPP for Perfect Peace Play?

I don't like the 'Peacenik' word, it's too Hippy-Dippy.