Au402 Dar4: 10ad-1000ad

[Catt]

Not a whole lot more to report. The turn after I last posted (680 AD) Babylon demanded contact with the Mongols and then declared war when they were rebuffed. The war declaration helped, if anything. I didn;t try to quantify any "reverse war weariness" happiness effects, but I probably gained a content / happy citizen in most cities.

Elizabeth decided to go after Economics for Smith's, and trade down for Astronomy towards Navigation. With 2 turns to go on banking, the Queen learned that the Ottomans (together with England, the most technologically advanced) had discovered Gunpowder. Elizabeth had thought that the other civilizations would prioritize Astronomy, but their failure to do added a little breathing room to the Queen's plans.

In 870 AD the Mongols demanded contact with the Babylonians -- these two civs really want to get to know each other! Temujin declared war when he was rebuffed. The Queen reduced here luxury slider one notch.

Sometime around 900 AD, Elizabeth learned that the Persians had begun onstruction of Copernicus' Observatory and the Ottomans had begun work on JS Bach's Cathedral. With the discovery of Astronomy, particularly by Persia with a lot of nearby sea routes and more than a few galleys roaming, Elizabeth decided it was time to introduce the world to itself. Elizabeth was up late and a bit tired, and rather than spend many hours determining the best possible succession of trades, she "winged it" a bit. She traded all her contacts to Persia plus 900+ gold for Astronomy, Banking for Gunpowder and Music Theory to the Ottomans, and Banking to Persia for the return of all English gold and a sizeable per-turn payment. She then traded a melange of contacts around the world for every available bit of gold and refreshed maps. Elizabeth refused to trade the English maps at all. She negotiated a peace with Babylon as part of her trades, but remained in a technical state of war with the Mongols. At the conclusion of the trades, England enjoyed tech superiority (England had just discovered, or was about to discover, Economics), an unmatched view of the world map, and 1500 gold in the treasury.

A pre-build was converted to Smith's -- still 20-something turns to completion. A second pre-build (cathedral) was converted to a Palace for a later switch to Magellans. Elizabeth wasn't happy with the prospect that the Ottomans would control both Sistine and JS Bachs, but barring a great leader, it sure looked like Bach's would be Ottoman - the Queen didn't covet the wonder, but would have preferred another civ to acquire Bach's. The Queen knew her pre-build for Magellan's would almost certainly be inadequate in the event of a wonder cascade -- she hoped that England would complete Smith's, and two other civs would complete Bach's and Copernicus' before Magellan's was available to others, bt it looked dicey.

Germany vaulted into the tech race by virtue of its Great Library -- Germany had been stuck at the Monotheism / Engineering point but leaped all the way up to the Banking / Gunpowder / Music Theory point when contacts were traded. Had the Queen been able to change past decisions, she would have gifted Theology and Education to Germany before contacts became available. Oh well, live and learn. Without universities, Germany would probably fall back soon enough.

Elizabeth wanted to get to Navigation as quickly as possible. Ocean travel would open up trade -- just a few luxuries would eliminate the need for any luxury spending and improve English scientific advancement by 30% or so. Navigation would also allow cross-ocean invasions. Though somewhat unprepared with a very weak military, many English cities would be free to concentrate on military units soon, and the Queen contemplated one or more invasions of backwards neighbors for luxuries and more fertile land. The Americans in particular were backwards, controlled numerous spices, and industrious American workers had helpfully cleared most of their jungle home. Just a few turns' trip from the homeland, America started to look as if it had a large bull's eye painted across its lands.

English caravels loaded with three settlers, three muskets, and three workers will soon be in position off the coast of the small northern island for a sprint northeast to colonize the small, centrally-located island English sailors had discovered years ago. Additional caravels waited at the hoe islands southern tip, expecting to find one or more landmasses to the south. The Queen guessed that additional civilizations existed east of Egypt / Arabia, and potentially north of the northern island. Horseman and knights (England workers connected their iron mine upon discovery of astronomy) will soon gather in the northen island in preparation for an invasion northwest to America.

The screenshot below shows the English empire at 1000 AD (pasted in disparate locations) and an enlarged minimap showing the known world. Navigation is 8 turns away; Smith's is 23 turns away. Turns are taking 4 - 5 minutes (ughh!).

Catt

[nbarclay]

Originally posted by Catt


The safe sea travel is what did it -- that and ponying up 35 - 65 gold per civ to buy territory maps each time I met them. The extra movement point is nice, but the safe sea travel is especialy helpful on this map. I must have invested 2,500 to 3,000 gold in map purchases and embassy establishments.

Catt

My SOP is to trade a tech (preferably a relatively cheap one) for a world map plus whatever else I can get for it. Individually, the deals cost me a little in relative terms. But collectively, I end up getting gold from a civ in every group I meet instead of giving gold, and with as many civs as there are in this game, that adds up.

[nbarclay]

The reason I had a save from 230 AD is that that's when I entered the medieval era. I'd recently made contact with Germany and France (which were more advanced than Egypt and Arabia), and with their assistance, plus popping Polytheism from the hut on the eastern island, I found myself the most advanced among the civs I knew.

By the way, I discovered a point of game mechanics that I hadn't known. It would appear that if you only have one ancient non-governmental tech left to research, it is actually possible to get that tech from a hut even though you are already researching it.

My galleys continued to search (always following safety regulations to the letter) and, in 460 AD, established contact with the largest group of the world's civs. A decade later, history's third great turning point (after the Ottomans' completion of the Pyramids and Carthage's construction of the Great Lighthouse) occurred. The Ottomans and Persia had both already discovered Engineering, but then Carthage discovered Theology and...

[nbarclay]

Until that turning point, Carthage had been forced to run a significant (54 gpt as of 460 AD) deficit in order to run science plus luxury spending at 100%. After that point, Carthage was able to run a surplus. As long as Carthage could keep foreign gold rolling in, it could continue to research at its maximum feasible rate (currently 80% science, 20% luxury) forever.

The Ottomans were a definite economic threat. Even in 460 AD, they were huge and prosperous, and that was only a shadow of what they would become later. But they were also in Monarchy, not Republic, so at least for the time being, the financial advantage was mine. I was fully intent on using it while I had the chance, and I could only hope that the Ottomans would stay in Monarchy. Worse, the Ottomans still had their golden age in front of them. I still had mine ahead too, but with my not planning any invasions until Military Tradition, Numidian Mercenaries were starting to feel like a poor substitute for Sipahi.

As the millennium drew on, Carthage continued to stretch out its tech lead (and expand its cash stockpile as well). The Ottomans had snagged Sun Tsu's before Carthage was even in the medieval era (very possibly with a combination of a wonder cascade and Feudalism as a free tech), but Carthage had come back to get Sistine and Leo's and was on track to get Copernicus's and Smith's just ten years into the next millennium. No one else even had the prerequisite technologies to start them! Also, the recent discovery of Navigation enabled luxury trading for the first time, and the process of discovering the few civilizations the Great Lighthouse had not yet brought into safe reach was almost complete.

But amidst all that happiness, an ominous danger loomed. The Ottomans had finished swallowing their Mongol neighbors three centuries before, and were vastly larger than Carthage. As long as they remained in Monarchy, Carthage could hope to maintain its scientific advantage. But the danger that they might switch to Republic and end Carthage's technological advantage lurked like a vulture in people's minds, ready to swallow up Carthage's dreams of supremacy like so much dead meat.

[Dominae]

alva's DAR

Posted at alva's request (because he really does not any spoiler info):

---

- 50 AD Got contact with Arabia

- 100 AD got contact with the Egyptians.

- 170 AD - Ottomans build GL ( 3 turns before it would be finished , so a 370 shield marketplace it is then. Well I was able to buy construction and build the great wall instead.
The smarter move would have been to take the marketplace or any other improvement though, but héy, who cares.
The first time I build it anyway )

- 300 AD Mogols get wiped out. 22 to go

- 350 AD contact with Germans. ( = contact with around 15 civ)

- 410 AD finally went into anarchy ( 6 turns)

Seeing the abundance of luxuries Dom has given the world, the better thing to do would probably have been to choose monarchy, should be more fun this way )

- 560 AD started prebuilding sistine chapel.

- 870 AD I finish Sistine.......oh wait, there is a messenger at the door, one moment, I'll be right back.
* goes to open door and listens what news the messenger brings *
What!!! W H A T !!!
* comes back storming to the throne room, shouting and cavorting wildly *
I Don't Believe It....

Yep, you've guessed it, they ARE done.

Just to show how PO and mixed-up I was: (I edited this part in later) I only realised while I was doing some very extensive and elaborate micro-management, what the rather obvious flaw in line of thought was. [strike]
Great!, Good thing I've been rushing all those expensive cathedrals everywhere. 8 BLOODY shields, I can't even hold it for something else.Next wonder tech is at least 11 turns away.
Unless I go full steam for Music theory, not sure if it's worth it though. I Think I'll sleep on it. [/strike]

ah well, all in the game.
Loosing:
the GrLIGHT (10 turns)
GrLibrary ( 3 turns)
Sistine ( 1 turn)
(I am getting closer though, aren't I )

[Theseus]

That all gets a very large and empathetic:

AAARRGGHH!!!!

[Theseus]

And for me, the suicide galleys continue. Now I can see the outlines to the NW... F******ck.

Theology in 590AD, with a Colosseum pre-build in T-heim (risky, I know).

Still no mil units in the homeland. Iron Island is developing nicely, with low corruption and good terrain.

BTW, to an earlier point between Nathan and me, I have mined quite a few of the desert tiles...

Markets rule.

[Theseus]

540AD: WHOA!! I meet Carthage... and I'm in the tech lead by Phil, CoL, Lit, HBR, Poly, and Curr.

"What do the generous Viking people suggest?"

MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

"Your leetle girls... I want to buy them... how much? How much you want?"

Ohhhhh, not what I expected. Hmmm.

[Theseus]

Did I mention that I'm playing as Scandinavia?

:smirk:

Oh, and look, all cities but Carthage are coastal...

[nbarclay]

Please keep in mind that the human-playable civs end up in random locations among the slots available for them. So talking about Carthage, America, England, Greece, Spain, and the Vikings as AIs tells readers who you're talking about, but not where you're talking about. For example, my English are where Catt's Americans are, among other differences.

[Catt]

Originally posted by nbarclay


My SOP is to trade a tech (preferably a relatively cheap one) for a world map plus whatever else I can get for it. Individually, the deals cost me a little in relative terms. But collectively, I end up getting gold from a civ in every group I meet instead of giving gold, and with as many civs as there are in this game, that adds up.

Mine too. But in this game I was quite a bit discombobulated by the tech pace / cost, and didn't want to trade techs for maps until I had my arms around the tech progression. I also had so much gold (until I needed / wanted to buy techs ) that I was a pretty free spender early on. I spent a lot of gold buying maps and building embassies (for RoPs) even though my possession of the G.Lighthouse meant that no invasion of England was possible -- so no need to be polite with RoPs -- and the maps would become cheaper with further turns of exploration.

Catt

[nbarclay]

Do RoPs really matter in galley explorations? I normally just promise to leave and do so as quickly as I can get my galleys across to the other end of the civ. (And it's not like I'm being any less polite than AIs typically are in that regard; at least I'm planning to get out of their territory in some kind of reasonable timeframe.)

[vmxa1]

Yes. I had been using the same tactic and it was working. When I got to China I did the same thing and moved and then next turn they bounced me out. This put me where I would have had to do a bunch more ocean tiles, so I made the only RoP of the game and it is still in place.

[Arrian]

Nathan,

If the AI has to ask you to leave their territory, I believe there is an attitude hit each time. So repeated tressassing will result in annoyed or furious AIs. On the other side of the coin, a RoP will boost their attitude.

I have taken to getting RoPs with newly-met overseas AI civs (typically via suicide galley) when I know for a fact that only I will gain from it. It doesn't cost me anything usually, improves the subject AI's attitude toward me, and allows me unemcumbered exploration of their coastline.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

That is exactly why I made the RoP. I need to aviod going out into sea/ocean tiles and China was very backward. This meant they would not be in position to attack for a few millenia. If they did even then it would be hapless, so the RoP was a no brainer.
The rest of the civs asked me to leave once and I said sure and kept on going, never to me asked again.
Normally as long as you are moving, they interpret that as compliance.