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  • Pikers

    I'm sorry to retread old ground, but do piker bonuses only occur against units with mp=2, hp=1, fp=1? Could have sworn that someone discovered that the fp=1 requirement wasn't true, but I can't find the post.
    El Aurens v2 Beta!

  • #2
    IIRC mp=2 & hp=1 is all - I don't think there are any standard civ units with mp=2 & hp=1 that have a fp of other than 1, but you can make them for a scenario.

    SG[1]
    "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
    "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

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    • #3
      You are correct, the fp=1 part was disproven. Movement=2, hp=1 is what triggers it.
      The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)

      The gift of speech is given to many,
      intelligence to few.

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      • #4
        Thanks for the confirmation. The thorough work dissecting combat that's been done here is a real boon for scenario designers.

        SG[1], you can imagine how far from 'standard Civ2' that scenario designers will go. Things like does the unit role or domain affect the piker bonus?

        The piker bonus seems a nice way to introduce specialist units, unless you don't like a lot of 1hp units in your unit mix.
        El Aurens v2 Beta!

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        • #5
          there is a requirement for the pikemen bonus?
          i had a phalanx(which i gave the pike code) who defeated tanks with ease(although i do admit it was behind walls) how come this happened?
          Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
          "...and on its tombstone it shall read: At least it had a better goto command than Civ 2..." Carolus Rex on Civ3

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          • #6
            Not to hard to see.
            2 for Phalanx, 3 for City Wall, 1.5 for vet = 9.0 defense vs 10.0 Tank attack.
            On a river defense would be 13.5
            (\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
            (='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
            (")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! 1999, patent pending, and (except that "Smurf" bit)

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            • #7
              Straybow - isn't it 2 for Phalanx +50% (Vet) + 200% (Walls) = 2 + 250% x 2 = 7 ? +50% (river) = 8?
              Consul.

              Back to the ROOTS of addiction. My first missed poll!

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              • #8
                "+200%" = 3
                "+50%" = 1.5
                and walls, vet, terrain should be cumulative, not additive
                (\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
                (='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
                (")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! 1999, patent pending, and (except that "Smurf" bit)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Straybow
                  "+200%" = 3
                  "+50%" = 1.5
                  That's not the same:
                  Base of Phalanx is 2;

                  +200% means +4
                  +50% means +1
                  So it's 2 +4 +1 = 7

                  2 x3 x1.5 = 9 And that's not the same...

                  I asked myself many times what's the right way to calculate - multiply seems to strong to me; a vet-phalanx on mountain-river with citywalls and fortified would have a defense of 2 x1.5(vet)x3(walls)x1.5(river)x3(mountain)x1.5(fort ified)= 60.75 defense and that's too much...

                  2+50%+200%+50%+200%+50%= 13 That sounds more fair...
                  "Only after the last tree has been cut down,
                  only after the last fish has been caught,
                  only after the last river has been poisoned,
                  only then will you realize that money cannot be eaten."

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                  • #10
                    you dont get the fortified bonus if you are behind walls or fortifications.

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                    • #11
                      Not to hard to see.
                      I'm somewhat nervous (and foolish) second guessing the experts, but it's a little bit hard for me to see , unless you changed the hp's of either unit. Couple of years back, Slowthinker helped me write an Excel sheet based on the info in GL combat thread (he is one thorough debugger! ). Plugging those unit/terrain values into the sheet gives the following:



                      If you calculate it using a piker bonus (or a forest bonus), the odds are much closer to 50/50.
                      El Aurens v2 Beta!

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                      • #12
                        Can you upload that sheet?

                        Originally posted by Elephant
                        you dont get the fortified bonus if you are behind walls or fortifications.
                        Where have you got that information? I can't find anything to it in the Civilopedia
                        "Only after the last tree has been cut down,
                        only after the last fish has been caught,
                        only after the last river has been poisoned,
                        only then will you realize that money cannot be eaten."

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                        • #13
                          The original link is lost, but I think this has the same information: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=22856. The 'version' on which I did the calculation is heavily festooned with scenario data and i/o routines involving modified ToT Rules.txt files. Let me dig for a file without all the extra junk in it. SlowThinker, if I'm too slow, can you post your copy? Thanks.
                          El Aurens v2 Beta!

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                          • #14
                            SlowThinker, if I'm too slow, can you post your copy?
                            Do you mean the ccpcalc.xls file or a link?

                            Is this the last version?
                            The wheel reinvented: a combat probability calculator
                            Last edited by SlowThinker; May 4, 2003, 13:16.
                            Civ2 "Great Library Index": direct download, Apolyton attachment

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