Early Landing Comparison Game #2

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by solo

In 720 AD you wonder why you can not research Steam Engine. The answer to this question is that at that time you had acquired 31 techs, and Steam Engine would have been 32nd. However, this tech is in Oedo group #2, which is omitted from tech lists when the remainder of total techs/3 = 2, which it is in this case (32/3=10 with a remainder of 2). Are you aware you can predict any list of tech choices by using Oedo’s discoveries detailed in the “Techs – Next Available” entry of SG’s Great Library?

Solo,

Seeing this I remembered that I have had on my to-do list for ages copying DaveV's list to a Word file to keep it handy. In the process of putting the list into columns (alpha by type, 0-1-2), I was shocked to find Plumbing in the list. I'm sure I've never noticed it before. It is probably an advance that was dropped before making the game final.

Am I correct in assuming that the presence of Plumbing does NOT alter the values of the succeeding advances?? Thanks

Monk

[solo]

Monk,

Although dropped from the actual game, Plumbing is still on the list in Rules.txt, so it gets assigned to one of the groups, too. This anomaly is what created the confusion some had about the timing Pottery's appearance, since Pottery would have been in Plumbing's place.

A very easy way to use this info, if you do not mind marking up your tech tree chart, is to write the number from DaveV's list for each tech on the chart. Then when a new list is presented, just see what groups are represented (omit the first tech, of course, since it is the joker). If tech choices belong to groups 0 and 1, the next list will omit the "0" techs since "2's" are not on this one. On the following list, it will be the "1" techs that are missing. This makes it easy to chart an optimal path and to know when to make trades to skip over unwanted lists. This is so useful, I've added a section to my ELG guide describing it in detail with some accompanying examples.

Incidently, joker techs were used to make sure tech lists always have at least one choice, since it is possible at times that all of the eligible techs will be from the group being omitted! Also notice that on certain paths along the tech tree, 3 techs in a row are in the same group, such as Railroad-Industrialization-Corporation (0's) or Flight-Radio-Advanced Flight (2's)

[Bloody Monk]

Solo,

Adding this info to the techtree chart is an excellent idea. Thank you.

Monk

[SlowThinker]

Monk, did you ever try Civ2 Planner?

http://home-1.worldonline.cz/~cz045662/civadvan/civ2plan.htm

[Bloody Monk]

SlowT,

Thanks for the idea.

Unfortunately, I am intimidated by the statement, "this is an MS DOS program." In this respect I am as timid as a rabbit; and like our favorite Rabbit, I learned about computers on a Mac. That means I prefer/need a more user friendly helper.

It's cool that someone went to the trouble to make that tool. I applaud such creativity. But, for me, the "marked up" techtree chart works and seems a more simple solution. With that tool, all I have to worry about is a papercut.

Monk

[SlowThinker]

Oh, MS-DOS programs can be very user friendly.
And Civ2Planner is sufficiently friendly.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by solo
I will preserve saves if you would like to see them. Do you care to see any from game #1. If so, please give me a list of years that are of interest.

Solo, I think I will abandon the game #1. But after I will finish the game (it will last long time, but I can take saves now if you don't want to retain them) I would like to see them: 1. periodic views/saves say 20 turns apart; 2. detailed view to the beginning and some other interesting part of the game (say 5 consecutives turns).

[solo]

ST,

Okay, here is a zip file containing 9 different turns from game #1 at about 20 turn intervals. If you want others after checking these, let me know.

[SlowThinker]

Solo, excuse me please. I wanted to say 'But after I will finish the game #2...', I forgot to add the number.
But I am interested about the game #1 and your way of playing too, and I can look at the saves immediately because i won't continue this game. I will download it.

[Zenon]

Hi all!

I just finished my game. Here is the basic log:

Monarchy 2050 BC
Republic 225 BC
Democracy 380 AD

Colossus 450 AD
Shakespeare´s 225 AD
Copernicus 140 AD
Newton 320 AD
Appollo 1260 AD

8 - 125 BC
12 - 40 AD
21 - 520 AD

Trade 725 BC
Invention 340 AD
Railroad 600 AD
Automobile 840 AD
Flight 1040 AD
Computers 1120 AD
Space Flight 1160
Nuclear Power 1200 AD
AC Arrival 1395 AD

I had a try on early monarchy and a reasonably good start. It´s amazing how Scouse Gits could build HG and Colossus so early, but some dates like Monarchy, Republic, Size 21, Invention and railroad are quite similar. I lost track in the mid and end game. The Celts were conquered by barbarians very early and I had only the Carthaginiens as a trading partner on continent 2. To bribe barbarian Cardiff later on was a good deal but I hardly ever could deliver a wanted commodity to the Carthaginiens. I also suffered from barbarian attacks and lost 2 cities in the late game (including a transporter and 5 trucks).
Something I realized for the first time: I couldn´t go beyond size 15 under republic and beyond size 21 under democracy. My SSC was not the capital and did not get the additional happy citizen from the palace. I should have build the palace in my SSC. Or do I miss something about WLT_D?
Thanks to Solo for his insights on trade in his postings. I realize I still have to learn a lot there.

Zenon

[SlowThinker]

Zenon, you showed a very good performance if we take into account that you lost Celts.

About WLTxD - I think the problem is not related to the size of your SSC but to the number of your cities. I think you lost the first content citizen (before any adjustment made by luxuries and other happiness factors - see the first line of the happiness analysis of the SSC) due to an unhappiness caused by too many of cities.
In deity there may be a problem to celebrate from an odd city size if all citizens are unhappy before any adjustment, because luxuries work only city size steps resp. only 2*city size luxuries is effective. So if you have a city of size 21 then only 2*21 luxuries are effective, and so 10 citizens are turned happy and one content.
Only way would be to build even more cities and to make 'the black hat bug' effective. For example in democracy the problem started when you had more than 11 and less than 20 cities and the first citizens turned to unhappy. But from 21 to 30 cities the first citizens turns to very unhappy (black hat) and so after 21 cities your odd sized cities start to be able to celebrate again. After 30 cities all cities can celebrate without any problem.
Another solution is capital or courthouse (in democracy), HG or Cure for Cancer.

See my two large posts in Apolyton CS Forums - happiness quirk...

Edit: Some words were 'lost'...

[Scouse Gits]

Zenon - Welcome to Apolyton and congratulations on a very good game!
I believe in aggressive exploration to obtain tribute and swap techs - essential when huts play no part in the game.

---------------------

SG(2)

[SlowThinker]

SG(2),
I beieve to MPE. In 800BC I built it and got 450 gold.

[Zenon]

Slow Thinker,

thanks for the information. I know the basic facts about unhappyness, though I never studied the details as you did. However, you helped me find the problem now. At size 15 I had just founded my 8th city (first colony) and it did not turn 1 citizen in annother city unhappy as I thought but 2. The second indeed was in my SSC and kept me from celebrating further. At size 21 under democracy the 21st citizen does not get a city field and therefore takes out the content citizen. It doesn´t help to have an entertainer as it only adds to the luxuries that allready are at maximum.
So the solution seems to be palace, courthouse or Hanging Gardens. Black hats will be no alternative in an early landing game.

Zenon

[solo]

Welcome Zenon,

A fine game!

You are right about needing a palace or courthouse. If the SSC is not the capital, I usually add a courthouse there to get beyond size 21 in Democracy. Extra cities can mess up celebrations, as can too many military units supported by the SSC that happen to be outside of cities. In game #2, I had two triremes supported by my SSC in Democracy, but had to park one in a city during SSC celebrations.

It's good to see a new face, and I hope to have my ELG guide done fairly soon, in which I've tried to include all of the relevant strategies used for these kind of games.