Nomads and NONE settlers

[samson]

Well, It's not mapsize then. I created a 39x49 map, founded a city and started tipping huts. 50 tips - no nomads. Then I disbanded my NONE settler and got a nomad on the 2nd tip. Probably MP gives you nomads.

[rah]

It's been so long since I really played a lot of SP that I wouldn't trust my memory. Did you open the same hut over and over or did you wander. (just trying to get an idea if any other factors played a role.) Did you try to play an MP game with you as the only Human? Or as a true SP game. And of course for the real obscure, You might only be able to get a second one once another/or all players have one. It's got to be something.

[solo]

rah,

That is a curious phenomena I have also observed about huts, even when sober.

Similar results often come in batches, i.e. lots of barbs one after another, or bunches of nomads during one part of a game, or quite a few techs results, and then hardly any for awhile. These "trends" were prevalent when I was testing huts a while back.

I have never got a nomad, an advanced tribe, nor a barb from any hut tipped before founding my first city.

[rah]

HAHAHAH,, yep, i think it was your batch theory that set the notion for War4 and I to do the test we did. (it was not conclusive.) It is more difficult to test in MP mode because of the considerable extra time it takes to reload.

I do do a lot of random number analysis at work, and some bunching is to be expected. I have people see it and then claim to me that I must have made mistake with my randomization. But then it depends on the random number algorithm.

Nice to know you've never had one of those others before the first city either. I still don't believe it can happen.

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by solo
rah,
I have never got a nomad, an advanced tribe, nor a barb from any hut tipped before founding my first city.

Agreed! Though about a week ago I recorded a first! A nomad from a Plains tile! (2.42 Standard Large Map)

Solo...when we tried to test huts way back I remember you thought that the computer clock may have an effect on the game. Is it possible that things could also change with the date?

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SG(2)

[rah]

Well most random number generators work using a seed number. Each pull uses a seed number and then the result is your next seed. A lot of generators used the system clock as the initial seed (civII's is one of them). Which is why reloading the game changes the outcome. (unlike civ III which remembers the seed number).

[Scouse Gits]

Thanks rah ... just shows for a subject that's been discussed so many times before we can all learn something new

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SG(2)

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits


Agreed! Though about a week ago I recorded a first! A nomad from a Plains tile! (2.42 Standard Large Map)

Solo...when we tried to test huts way back I remember you thought that the computer clock may have an effect on the game. Is it possible that things could also change with the date?

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SG(2)

Ah yes... my unfinished product Huts. Now that my time is my own again, I'll try to get back to that.

If it's the computer clock... that can easily be tested Hopefully, soon, by me, along with all the other weird permutations.

[solo]

It could be the time is a factor, since during my hut testing days checking for frequency of techs, I would tip and tip and tip, waiting for that period where another bunch of techs would appear, again! This happened with so much consistency, this bunching of similar results, that I was thinking that the time of the hour, or the day, might have been in use to alter entirely "random" hut results.

I think there is much to your time as a seed theory, rah, but during my tests there was a reload in between each tip, and this bunching was still observed.

As for your nomad, SG, I do not doubt it happened, but think this may have been due to a glitch of some sort. After all, most games are played on computers operated by the flaky Microsoft system!

I have to qualify my last remark about hut results before a city is founded, because I recall that when using ToT, I would get barbs from huts before founding the first city. ToT (if anyone uses it anymore) may be the source of some of these other reports of unexpected results from tips before founding a city.

[Scouse Gits]

STYOM ... you back with us again?

Hope the exams went well...and you have some time for the next succession game

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SG(2)

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Thanks SG(2)... I assume it went well... if not I'll have to go through again. But if I passed...

And I do have another Succession game idea... a no spies, no caravans/freight game But, I'll save that for when the current game is done.

Besides, there's testing to be done!

*goes to look for hut testing thread buried in Strat forum*

[rah]

The question is, just how the system clock is used? Is it using the datetime, the time or part of the time. (i.e. seconds or fraction of). I've seen algorithms that have used each of these, So the date itself may not have any impact.

example.
Sas stores September 12, 2002 at 12:39:43 PM
as 1347453583 which is the number of seconds that have occurred since a predetermined date from somewhere in the 60's.
Yet SAS stores 15415 for March 16, 2002 which is the number of days that have occurred since that same predetermined date.
Or SAS stores 59083 for 4:24:43 PM, which i believe is the number of seconds since the previous midnight.

Now while your system clock isn't exactly like SAS, this does show that it depends on just how different some of the initial seed numbers can be depending on what you're using.

RAH

[Scouse Gits]

I know very little about how computers work. I had always assumed that solo's connection between huts and time went like this:

5 seconds past the minute scroll
10 seconds past - unit etc, etc.

So if you reload and draw a different result it is the time lapse that gives that outcome.

Extend the thinking to date and year. Is it possible that the code changes when the calendar tips a certain date?

I don't know ... and when it comes to huts I seem to be in good company

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SG(2)

[rah]

Well considering that the result changes when reload, and that you can reload in less than one minute, seconds or parts of seconds have to be involved in creating the initial seed. From there some type of mathmatical equation is applied to the seed to generate the result and determine the next seed. I'm sure the result is applied to a table to select type of result and then an additional table to the exact result, since most games use the model of result tables made popular in D&D. The tables are modified to fit possiblilities based on existing conditions.

It has to be something similar to this. There aren't a lot of other ways to do it.

RAH

[Scouse Gits]

Could the parameters of the tables change with a date trigger?

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SG(2)