Ancient Words of Wisdom

[Scouse Gits]

Yeah - I remember that diagram...it wasn't always correct

Early Republic can work well on green terrain yielding big food returns. However, Republican settlers are twice as greedy as those under Monarchy and this tends to slow expansion. I have had encouraging results staying in Monarchy, with the Pyramids aiding city growth, then going straight to corruption free Democracy. Magnetism becomes important using this strategy as primitive boats for trade and exploration cause double red faces, though there are ways around this problem.

-----------------------

SG(2)

[-Jrabbit]

My current game is just as you describe, SG(2) -- went from Monarchy to Democracy (via SOL). The double-reds from "primitive boats" have been a real problem.

Other than Magnetism (which I now have), please describe a couple of the "ways around this problem" for me.

Thx!

[Campo]

Another reason I avoid Republic is the production issue. Units eat up so many shields that it inhibits my Wonder races. I know, I shouldn't need a lot of Wonders -- but I like having them. That shield penalty is a serious drawback early on.

[JCP]

I've tried different ways in my games :
sometimes going directly from despotism to republic, with the shield penalty, but a good growing rate,
other times going directly from monarchy to democracy.
My opinion is : if I can support republic, I can support democracy, with no corruption and no bribing (but it's not a problem in the early game).
Republic works fine as long as I'm on the same continent that my Capital, with roads between cities.
For exploring, I dispach my units in different cities so there is only one attached unit offshore by city, even if I concentrate boat building in one.
And don't forget to build Shakespeare Theater in a costal city, to rehome in it the whole navy (and later airplanes !).
OK about diplos or spy for exploring ground units, but I also use caravans and, of course, NON units.
Diplos and spies are fragil and may be swipped to the capital at the mere contact. They may open huts, but cannot catch a barb leader for monney : they know only buy him !

[La Fayette]

Re: Ancient Words of Wisdom

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
One for LaFayette ...

Originally posted by Sun Tzu some considerable time ago
Therefore, no one in the army is treated as well as spies, no one is given rewards as rich as spies, and no matter is more secret than the work of spies.

Please don't move this, Ming, I know it isn't really Strategy, but we can't let a forum die can we

SG[1]

No one in my army is treated as well as vet spies, no one is given rewards as rich as vet spies, but no matter should be less secret than the work of vet spies after all the posts I have written giving the details of their various abilities .

About roads, the 'shortest' from A to B is generally different from the one from B to A, except when you can draw a straight line between A and B ( = if the GOTO command gives a straight direct path, without any change of direction between the 2 cities).

About early Republic, I would say " if you are at war, or if you hate micromanaging, or if you have been beaten to the Gardens and Mike: forget it".
But if you have peaceful neighbours, the HG (+ Mike later on), a nice food surplus in most cities of yours and a number of commodity caravans on their way, early Rep can bring you a very nice boost through WLTCD.

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
... -- went from Monarchy to Democracy (via SOL). ...

That sounds like a dreadful waste of 8 caravans to me!!

If the aim is to go to Demo, why build SoL - use the Oedo table instead, much cheaper ...

If you can't lay your hands on the Oedo table, promise yourself to play honestly and at the end of turn save, revolt and see - reload if not oedo, but make no changes that are influenced by the observed inter turn information and repeat until revolution is successful - no cheat in my book, just using the game to tell you when the Oedo year falls

SG[1]

[Straybow]

I play Rep because it is a challenge. Most any deity player can beat the AI from Monarchy (or even Despotism I suppose, I've never tried). The war unhappiness and unit support serves to rein in military growth.

[Alexander's Horse]

In x1 deity going straight to republic is the preferred strat in MP games.

It has a number of advantages:

In the course of getting there you have a shot at the main happy wonders - the chapel and Bach's.

You can get philosophy first, which gives you an extra tech - important in a tight game, particularly if you are in the happy wonder race.

You can start WLTLD early and enjoy masive growth.

The number of cities you can develop is not limited but you do get major unhappies once you get above 10 and again above 20 (I forget the exact number of cities for each). But this can be worked around.

Anyway a big advantage over democracy is you can leave some cities unhappy and just keep expanding. They still grow whilst unhappy.

A skilled player going straight to republic will kill a player who stays in monarchy for any length of time.

[Ming]

We used to play the Anarchy challange, where no real govenment is allowed. It didn't really cause any serious problems in winning a game

[Messer Niccolò]

... err... Ming, you played Anarchy challenge SP against AI or in MP making the "angry mobs war"?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Messer Niccolò
... err... Ming, you played Anarchy challenge SP against AI or in MP making the "angry mobs war"?

Only against the AI... I was playing all the "challenges" when there was nobody around to play MP with

[Marquis de Sodaq]

I advocate early republic - first you really need to have most roads and irrigation ready. Settlers eat two wheatsheafs in republic, you're better off settling them before the switch. You then have a militarily weak (barring NON unit acquisition), small republic. However, within 10-20 turns, you have a bustling, wealthy, high powered science machine. With WLT*D, your cities swell large enough to produce enough shields to support a few units. You'll never have the production of monarchy, but the trade-off is vastly improved arrow production. My favorite . Camels are double lovable, as well - because your cities have nearly double arrow totals, caravan payoff is vastly increased.

Look at it as a short spell of being a weenie civ in order to leap ahead thereafter.

[Elephant]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
My current game is just as you describe, SG(2) -- went from Monarchy to Democracy (via SOL). The double-reds from "primitive boats" have been a real problem.

Other than Magnetism (which I now have), please describe a couple of the "ways around this problem" for me.

Jrabbit:
"Primitive boats" are triremes and caravels, ships that have at least one Attack point. Anything with an Attack rating will count against your city happiness in Republic or Democracy. In Republic, the first unit outside of a city or fortress near a city is OK. So if you have triremes or caravels out, any other units from that city need to be at home. You can move ships around to rehome them (move them into another city and select "Support from this city"), or bring other land units home. Another strategy for solving the problem is to build Shakespeares Theatre in a coastal city and rehome all your ships and "foreign legions" in that one city. Or build Leonardos Workshop and let it upgrade all your Triremes and Caravels to Galleons, which have no attack points. Later in the game you can build Womens Suffrage, which decreases the unhappiness from units away from home (there is an irony in that, but I won't get political here!). But then, don't you get transports around the time you can build WS?

[ramses II.]

Having build Mike's, I go immediately to Republic with a high science rate, researching for key techs to build Adam Smith's, SoL an J.S.Bachs. During that time I trade and trade and trade. When I get SoL, I switch to Demo for a while, then I go to Fundy to make some money. Every new founded city will get a temple immediately, for this raises my income.
When I have managed to build the wonders (and some more - in Fundy, with low research, it's important to get those two extra techs) my research goes to the techs needed for the UN, Cure For Cancer and Hoover Dam, maybe Newton's, too. All these wonders are paid from my fundy-income.
When I get J.S.Bachs, I let my cities celebrate (HG+Mike's+Bach's = CELEBRATION) for a while - BIG CA$H! Had games where I earned more than 2000 gold a turn. And I continue trading with celebrating cities.

[Scouse Gits]

ramses II ... try going to Democracy without the switch to Fundy. This has the following benefits:

1) Save 8 caravans NOT building SoL ... use them for a science wonder or JSB.
2) If you are trading hard your freight returns will be greater in Democracy.
3) As your cities continue to grow in Demo so does your wealth. Population growth is more important than any short term gain from tithes in Fundamentalism

--------------------

SG(2)