City from size 1 to size 20 in about 16 turns

[debeest]

Back on topic: in my current game I just verified that a city WILL gain two citizens in a turn if the food box is naturally full and if the city is still celebrating after addition of that new citizen. There certainly didn't seem to be any trick to it. And I can't see any reason why it wouldn't also work if it was a food caravan that filled the box.

This is with 2.42.

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by debeest
Back on topic: in my current game I just verified that a city WILL gain two citizens in a turn if the food box is naturally full and if the city is still celebrating after addition of that new citizen. There certainly didn't seem to be any trick to it. And I can't see any reason why it wouldn't also work if it was a food caravan that filled the box.

This is with 2.42.

Bizarre - this has never happened for me - and I have been watching, could you give some more details, such as size before and after, excess number of sheafs etc?

Smash, Warz, "Vancouvente"???

SG[1]

[Straybow]

Better yet, save files.

Excess number of sheafs? Doesn't matter, because once the box is full the city grows next turn even if you switch it to deficit sheafs. As long as you have 1 excess Rep/Dem happiness growth is active. Additional sheafs are irrelevant, right?

[JCP]

Originally posted by debeest
I just verified that a city WILL gain two citizens in a turn

I vever see that in my games.
But I sometimes have seen that AI cities seem to grow at a amazing rythm, with more population that the number of turn allowing it !

[Smash]

At first thought I'd say that can't be possible.What happens for me is the growth from "we love" comes first which then changes the size of the food box making it impossible to fill up naturally.

It is Vancouverite.Or Vancouverites.

[Scouse Gits]

Oh I see Smash - my old eyes failing me again ...

That's why I asked about the number of excess sheaves - just possibly??????? if you have enough sheaves to refill the expanded box ???????????

SG[1]

[Xin Yu]

I think the sequence is: natual population growth first, then check flags for WLTKD/riot from the previous turn, then calculate production (food, shield, trade), then check happiness for this turn and set new WLTKD/riot flags. So at least theoretically it is possible to grow by 2 within the same turn.

[debeest]

Dear me. I would have sworn that I had verified that it worked, but when I reload that game.sav, it generates the new citizen from the food box into forest, causing it to be unhappy. I must retract my claim, although I still feel certain that it would work. I gain great confidence from the fact that Xin Yu agrees. Perhaps I'll find time to cheat-generate a city that will do it.

[Xin Yu]

you can leave the best square (irrigated grass, wheat, etc.) blank and put other citizens where you want them. This way you won't have any surprise -- the new citizen will surely go there.

[Xin Yu]

You CAN grow 2 pop per turn. Attached the saved file. Just deliver the freight to the city, then wait for the next turn, it will grow from 9 to 11.

[Smash]

Well,I'll be damned, its true.Could be quite useful in early landing attempts.

[Starlifter]

DOUBLE GROWTH


Interesting topic. I'll type something up about the details as far as I've discovered (version 5.4.0f) after wondering why some of my cities were increasing by 2 citizens per turn (at times) a while back.

The net effect is that normally, people probably don't notice "Natural" double growth, as the conditions are not too common unless you generate large amounts of excess food in Republic or Democracy. BTW, the game does not care where the excess food comes from (natural or food caravan/freight) to fill a food box.

This is how this works, including the basic algorithm. The actual sequence may seem somewhat complicated...

Double growth (Add 2 citizens in one turn) can occur two ways:

1. "Naturally", with Filling food box and being in Dem/Rep + celebration growth condition.
2. With the help of 1 (or 2) Food Caravans/Freights (Car/Frt).


Variable Definitions:

S - Size of city, initially.
E - Excess Food Supply.
F - Food box contents (# of food icons) at size S.


Sequence:

1. Check food box: is it full? If yes, complete 1a - 1c:
1a. Increase the Pop by one (add one citizen; the food box will be 10 larger).
1b. Place/Utilize the new Citizen with typical ineptitude.
1c. Change the food in the food box:
1c1. To half, if Pyramids/Granary.
1c2. To zero, if no Pyr/Grn.

2. Compute E: Final food box contents will be either:
2a. If Growth occurred in Step #1:
2a1. If Pyr/Grn: (5*(S+2) + E)
2b2. If No Pyr/Grn: E)
2b. If No Grow in Step #1:
2b1. (F + E)

3. Check Proper Celebration Growth Conditions:
3a. Republic or Democracy government.
3b. Celebration Flag set.
3c. At least 50% Happy citizens.
3d. Only Happy, Content, or Specialist citizens.
3e. Necessary improvements to grow (Aqu/Sew).
3f. At least one excess food available.

4. If Proper Celebration Growth conditions exist:
4a. Increase the Population by one (the food box will be 10 units larger).
4b. Place/Use the new Citizen with typical ineptitude.


Note: If the food excess (E) was less than 5 and you have Pyr/Grn, you'll need 2 caravans/freight (not just one) to accomplish the Double Growth feat via Car/Frt on the next turn.

Extra note: Double Growth can occur "Naturally" (With no Food Car/Frt help) if the city's excess food production exceeds (10*(S+2) - F). The "natural" double growth will occur on the following turn (because of filled food box). You won't see this very often; 2nd Celebration growth day is the most common time for it (if food box was already almost full). You need a lot of excess food to do this.... the easiest way to accomplish it is with Refrigeration & farmland.


---------- Game Example (natural food supply only): ----------
(Real game, with Pyramids & grassland farming, one whale, No Settlers/Engineers supported, no celebration at turn 1, Democracy)

Turn 1: Size 6 City. 53 food in box. E=15 (15 excess food); Cits on Whale & 6 GrassFarms.
Turn 2: Size 6 city. 68 food in box [53+15=68]. E=15. City begins Celebration.
Turn 3: Size 7 city. 83 food in box [68+15=83; Full; Max=80]. E=17. 1st Celebration Grow. New Cit on GrassFarm (GF).
Turn 4: Size 9 city. 64 food in box [5*(7+2)+19)=64]. DOUBLE GROWTH #1. 1st New Cit=GF, 2nd=Elvis. E=17 (with Elvis). At size 8, E=19.
Turn 5: Size 10 city. 85 food in box [64+19]. E=23.
Turn 6: Size 11 city. 108 food in box [85+23]. E=25.
Turn 7: Size 12 city. 133 food in box [108+25=133; Full; Max=130]. E=23. New citizen was Elvis. Set on GrassFarm (E=25).
Turn 8: Size 14 city. 95 food in box [5*(12+2)+25]. E=23. DOUBLE GROWTH #2. Two Elvis. Set Cit on GFs. E=31.
Turn 9: Size 15 city. 126 food in box [95+31]. E=33.
Turn10: Size 16 city. 159 food in box [126+33]. E=31. Elvis. Use GF. E=35.
Turn11: Size 17 city. 194 food in box [159+35=194; Full; Max=180]. E=33. Box Full. E=37.
Turn12: Size 19 city. 130 food in box [5*(17+2)+35]. E=33. DOUBLE GROWTH #3. 2 Elvis. E=41.
Turn13: Size 20 city. 171 food in box [130+41]. E=39. Elvis. Use GF. E=43.
Turn14: Size 21 city. 214 food in box [171+41]. E=41. Elvis.
Turn15: Size 22 city. 255 food in box [214+41=255; Full; Max=230]. E=39. Elvis.
Turn16: Size 24 city. 157 food in box [5*(22+2)+37]. E=35. DOUBLE GROWTH #4. 2 Elvis.
Turn17: Size 25 city. 192 food in box [157+35]. E=33. Elvis.
Turn18: Size 26 city. 225 food in box [192+33]. E=31. Elvis.
Turn19: Size 27 city. 256 food in box [225+31]. E=29. Elvis.
Turn20: Size 28 city. 285 food in box [256+29]. E=27. Elvis.
Turn21: Size 29 city. 312 food in box [285+27=312; Full; Max=300]. E=25. Elvis.
Turn22: Size 31 city. 225 food in box [5*(29+2)+23]. E=21. DOUBLE GROWTH #5. 2 Elvis.
--------- End Game Example ----------


SUMMARY: Yes, you can grow by 2 citizens per turn.... it's probably happened in many people's games. Further, it can be done with the help of food Car/Frt, or "naturally"!!

BTW, You cannot grow by 3 or more in one turn (due to game's program limits).




EDIT: Simplified & fixed typos.

[La Fayette]

Hello Starlifter!
Glad to see you posting here.
(quite a long post = no surprise ; a detailed one too = no surprise either )

[La Fayette]

I am fairly sure that Airbus vet spies are already patrolling the sky over Seattle. No need for me to send any of mine .

[Starlifter]

Hello Starlifter!
Glad to see you posting here.
(quite a long post = no surprise ; a detailed one too = no surprise either )

MarkG came up with an access solution for me, so now I can connect to Apolyton, albiet slowly (I have to edit links manually and put in the dot address he gave me, instead of allowing the DNSs in certain parts of the internet to supply the incorrect lookups). So it just take a while... most links I can't just click and follow .

So I hope to be able to take a look around a couple times a week.... you guys are quite knowledgeable about the game .