Barbarians

[Campo]

War & SG,

I'm surprised that you can defend with just warriors. I used to lose enough cities to barbs with 2 warrior defenders that now I always build one phalanx fairly early on.

What barb attackers are you referring to -- archers? A barb legionaire will destory a warrior.

Or do you build city walls? I tend not to in general, preferring to spend my shields/money elsewhere. I put walls only in border cities or isolated outposts.

[Unix]

Don’t know, they are red and have the shield, I had a couple of beers so it may have taken more then that to kill the barb, but it did seem that when I got enough of mine around them they did not last.

[War4ever]

Campo a barb legion definitely will take out the warrior but for the most part if you can keep the barbs from attacking ....warriors are just fine

[geofelt]

If you have only one city, any defender(warrior) will stop any barb attack cold. With two cities, this may still be true. After that, you must protect your cities. The barbs attack strength will probably win over any defender if you let them get close. I select horseback riding as soon as I can. After building a warrior, then a settler, I build a horseman to defend the city(by attacking) and send the warrior out to explore. They don't cover as much ground, but they reveal the terrain fast enough to let me place my new cities well. On raging hordes, I leave huts alone until they are part of a new city. After that, nothing bad can come out of them. You can attack a barb leader with anything and get his gold. At raging hordes, the $150 is huge in the early game.

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by Campo
War & SG,

What barb attackers are you referring to -- archers? A barb legionaire will destory a warrior.

Or do you build city walls? I tend not to in general, preferring to spend my shields/money elsewhere. I put walls only in border cities or isolated outposts.

The very early Barbs are Archers. They attack at 3 so you must have the first strike with a Horseman to kill them before they do any damage. As War mentioned keep your cities well connected with roads so the local "heavy" can reach any city quickly.

Unless there are very good reasons, Walls are a luxury I can't afford. On occasions when the local Horse can't make it in one turn I prefer to move a warrior out of a city next to the Barb to buy time. This sacrifice of 10 shields is preferable to losing a head of population when the city is attacked.

By the time Legions appear you should have some suitable units to deal with them. Diplomats are often the answer - buy one to kill the other.

Building a vet Phalanx in the early game is useful if you believe you can set up the Barb King for 150 gold. Fortify the defender on decent terrain and hope the Barb Archer loses. Then have a horsie track down the ransom.

For general Martial Law at the start of the game I rarely think beyond Warriors.

----------------------------

SG(2)

[Campo]

If you have only one city, any defender(warrior) will stop any barb attack cold. With two cities, this may still be true.

Not true with two cities, at least not in v2.42. I lost my second city (defended by a warrior, attacked by a barb archer) in the last game I played.

geo & SG,
Okay, I now understand your point about "defending" with a horseman by attacking. A barb archer will defeat warriors in an unwalled city. But you're saying to attack the archer with a horseman before it ever reaches the city. That point was going over my head before. I've been relying on defense only, because any horsemen I have in the early stage are out exploring. Maybe I'll try keeping one back and using warriors only.

I don't think a phalanx needs to be vet to withstand a barb archer attack, at least if it's on terrain with any defense bonus. Would probably go down on grassland or plains though.

[Scouse Gits]

You're welcome - it is easy to forget that that which is now 'obvious' to oneself was once knowledge that had to be learned - oftimes painfully.

The invulnerable defender only occurs in the first and only city - if you lose your second city the first is no longer protected ...

[Marquis de Sodaq]

As an addition, only the last defender of your only city is immune to barbarian attack. As noted, this bonus is lost once you build another city, regardless of what happens afterwards.

[geofelt]

I found out for certain that the second city unit can't defend. I have posted in another thread a save with no palace. Try it.
At deity, barbarians attack at 150%, so even vet phalanxes will lose.

[Campo]

At deity, barbarians attack at 150%, so even vet phalanxes will lose.

Even with a terrain bonus? I'm sure I've had phalanxes hold out against at least archers. I think even non-vets but I'm not positive.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

An attack advantage (e.g. 3 vs. 2) does not guarantee victory - it increases the odds greatly. Your green phalanx can sometimes hold out against a legion - just don't expect him to.

And don't get heady against the AI with the last defender trick. Even a diplomat will hold the barbarians at bay, but that bonus does not work against the AI.

I'll dig up and bump my Info: Combat thread. The newer browsers can read up on everything they need to know!

[DrSpike]

War and SG's points are indicative of a general strategic maxim: passive defence is rarely optimal. If you sit and defend you'll need more units even against poor AI opposition. Counterattack and scouting (diplos are best) are critical.

[Campo]

passive defence is rarely optimal

I agree completely. But at the very beginning, when the only choice is between warrior and phalanx, I like to have one phalanx defender in each city. Neither is worth anything as an attacker.

[Scouse Gits]

But in the very early game those 10 shields are soooooo valuable!! Think, four cities with Phalanxes (?Phalanges?) equals a Settler - a 25% increase in the Empire -- I know which I take - every time!

[geofelt]

At deity with raging hordes, my first tech is horseback riding, if I don't have it already. After that, I usually can rush a horseman if I need to to save a city. The cost is the save as a phalanx, but more effective.