World conquest end-game: what would you do?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I was recently playing a game at Emperor in my usual perfectionist-AC-bound style when I got bored and decided to see if I could conquer the world instead -- without going Fundy. I went Commie, took out the Japanese, and am about to land a large spy-and-cavalry force and vanquish the Americans. But I don't usually play world conquest, so here's the question:

I started late -- it's already 1812. Once the Americans are toast, there'll be 4 civs left (about 60 cities) scattered across small land masses on a large map. I have the UN, and upon taking out Wahsington will have Magellan's, Women's Sufferage, and the SoL. So the question is, which government do you think will best serve this situation? Communism, for the Vet Spies and free troops? Democracy, for the money and chance to get way ahead in military techs? Or Republic as a compromise between the two? I'm at sea here -- I haven't conquered the world above Prince level -- so I'm curious what others would do. Last things to note: right now I don' thave all that much cash (maybe 2000g); and all civs are about equally advanced at this point, with Alpine troops, cavalry, and cruisers being the most advanced units out there. Enlighten me with your wisdom, warmongers! TIA.

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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

[Scouse Gits]

Not Republic - the corruption and waste will wipe you out (at least in Deity - I'm less certain at Emperor). Democracy is obviously 'best', but the strategies involved in keeping an army in the field in Demo are fairly arcane and you might find it easier all round to stick with Commie, 80% Science ain't bad and if you keep your prime Science cities celebrating you enjoy representative government trade levels and hence Science output.
But ... (you might have guessed there would be one) ... for my money now is the time to switch to Fundy (immediately after capturing SoL - all spare prduction capacity prior to this devoted to Vet Spy development) - in my eyse you now have the best of all worlds - infinite cash - a horde of Vet Spies - no unhappiness - unhampered production and essentially no unit support - rest of the world folds in 20 turns tops...

Whatever you choose, good luck and keep us posted, it is always good to try a new strategy even if it proves less than optimal....

[Addendum added in edit -- don't forget to turn your Science rate down to 0% once you go Fundy - you can't match them at research with a 25% roof - so don't try - steal any needed tech and rely on the good ol' AI to scale down his research in reply to your obvious inadequacy in this area ]

Scouse Git[1] -- git1@scousers.net

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited April 27, 2001).]

[Ming]

Stay in commie just long enough to produce a ton of vet spies, and then switch to fundy. If world conquest is your goal, fundy is really the best.
As mentioned, let your vet spies and the sciences you get from taking cities be your only source of science... it's usually more than enough to stay even with the AI's... The money you can aquire in fundy can be used to buy instant armies, or bribe cities. Just get on a roll, and you should have more than enough time left to finish the job.

[DaveV]

As my esteemed colleagues said, Fundy is the best. If you're restricting yourself from using this government, though, Communism is a great second choice. The unhappiness and poor support of the representative governments makes them not worth considering, IMO.

One of the most important factors in a conquest game is a good transportation system. I like to have a large force of engineers who can build railroads to the gates of the bad guys. Once you have artillery, move it along the railroad, and you should be able to kill any defenders and take cities at will. Well situated transports and port cities can provide an instant link between continents. Move your unit into the port city on continent A and put it to sleep. Move a transport from that city into a city on continent B, and the unit will awaken with full movement. I'd suggest you build at least one barracks city on each continent, and use it to heal your wounded units. Concentrate on building vet units; they are even stronger than the 50% nominal bonus because of the way the combat system works. Sun Tzu's is great to have, since all of your units will be vets.

Once you have artillery, I'd turn off science and crank up the cash. You might even go as far as selling libraries and universities. Then rushbuild lots of alpines and artillery, and go to town. The game will be over long before the AIs can come up with an answer.

Added in edit:

Another great trick is the "engineer invasion". Unload an engineer onto a new continent, and establish a city. Now you can move in several transports full of engineers and combat units. Tie into the AI's rail line, and his cities are yours.

Try to situate your cities so you can move transports from continent to continent in one turn without leaving them exposed to naval attack. I don't bother much with naval units other than transports, since railroads are so much faster.

Sell improvements when they are no longer paying for themselves. For example, if a bank is generating 5 gold per turn, and you estimate that the game is only going to last 10 more turns, sell it! You can use the cash to buy more units and shorten the game further. Sell happy improvements you don't need. Don't waste engineer turns on irrigation - create teams to build railroads to speed the arrival of your troops. You can build a railroad in one turn on grass/plains with three engineers. If your rail network is complete, start disbanding engineers and use their shields to build more attack units.
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited April 27, 2001).]

[La Fayette]

Rufus
Take Washington and save your game.
Then play it 4 times (Rep, Dem, Commie and Fundy).
IMO the most secure, without special training as a warmonger, is commie all the way (with lots of my beloved vet spies).
Fundy is OK, along with SG's advice.
Dem will teach you the means to deal with unhappiness (ST, JSB, CFC, WS, or plainly a few cities with strong morale and police stations).
Rep is probably the most challenging (mainly because of growing unhappiness; I would advise plainly selling improvements and destroying most conquered cities to cope with that problem).
This is for training. Best results are to be obtained with a mix of Commie, Fundy and Dem.
Best advice in that field might be provided by Ming (I seem to remember that he loves changing government in accordance with his medium range strategy).

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aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

[Ming]

Yes... always keep your options open. You can fight a massive war even in a representative government as long as you have planned for it. While commie and Fundy are the best later game war governments... Democracy might be called for if you want to leap ahead of the AI's in science so that you can have better weapons. Plus, with proper planning, you could set up for Democracy, and leave it only when your senate doesn't agree with your plans

With the use of trade, you can even stay ahead of the AI civs in science in Fundy if you make the effort. Even with your science rate set at zero, it's amazing how a global trade strategy can develop sciences at one a turn.

Planning is everything... just think about what you want to accomplish in the upcoming years, and set the proper strategy in place. In reality, there are always many different ways to accomplish the same goal, (the AI is really stupid) but you can usually determine which way is the easiest based on what you have in place, and what you can expect to have in the near future.

[Everyman]

A 1812 date gives you more than sufficient time to conquer the world.

I am inclined to stay with Communism. If you have Adam Smith, you should be able to keep the money coming in while not falling behind in science. You should also keep your trade caravans going to provide you with revenue.

When in Communism, I tend to favor taking over cities by both miltary force and bribery. Vet spies -- to tear down walls -- and cavalry will enable you to overcome any city defended by alpine troops or riflemen. With respect to bribery, since 1812 gives you a lot of time to play with, acquiring whole, or nearly whole cities gives you the opportunity to exploit them to build your empire.

Use your spies to investigate a city and if it looks like a city you'd like to take over, improvements and all, check their happiness factors -- if the happiness is supported by temples or cathedrals, etc., then move in your spies to destroy the temple and wait for the city to go into revolt. Then move in the spy to take advantage of the half-price sale. Use the revenues from conquests of lesser cities and trade monies to finance your bribes.

[airdrik]

I would stick with commi, because you still have a fairly stable income as well as science rate with the ability to freely declare war and 1st 3 units are free. If you go to demo, it definetally helps to have SoL so that if the senate signs a treaty you can just switch over to Fundi, or Commi.

Above all, it depends on your personal preference. If you like Demo then play demo, if you like commi play commi, if you like fundi play fundi. Each one has it's ups and downs and you have to live with your decision.

[solo]

Fundamentalism is best for conquest, but Rufus wanted to know how to do it without Fundamentalism, which is the easy way. For that, Communism is probably the next best, using spies to take out defences such as city walls, and by building lots of strong, mobile attackers, such as cavalry. Cities will fall like dominoes. Go for the ones with the useful wonders first.

[lord of the mark]

quote: Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 04-27-2001 05:08 AM Not Republic - the corruption and waste will wipe you out (at least in Deity - I'm less certain at Emperor). Democracy is obviously 'best', but the strategies involved in keeping an army in the field in Demo are fairly arcane and you might find it easier all round to stick with Commie, 80% Science ain't bad and if you keep your prime Science cities celebrating you enjoy representative government trade levels and hence Science output.

Geez, why didnt I think of that? I never use We love days other than in representative govs - yet a few elvii would help solve my cash and sci probelems in commmie - makes commie a much more appealing govt - close to a demo without the happiness and warmaking problems(and with vet spies to take advantage of the cash).

LOTM

[geofelt]

The easiest way to win is through bribery. SOL is the key. Go communist and build up an army of vet spies. Then go to democracy, and grow some using 60% luxuries for a while. Build up gold, and when you are at war, revolt immediately, and bribe or conquer all you can. At the end, go back to democracy and build up some more funds. The main problem with democracy is that the senate will stop a war before you want it to. Also, get the UN, or you can be stopped if you attack the UN holder. Look for an opportunity to give the AI civs railroad, it will make your task easier, later.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Wow! Thanks everybody. I know about the power of fundy but, as solo said, wanted to try conquest without it. My ideal is something like what geofelt suggested. But what I've learned from this is that, having largly played perfectionist-AC, I'm a great president but a lousy general (kind of a Ulysses S. Grant in reverse). My warmaking skills stink, especially if making war requires a large, coordinated invasion of another land mass (as it does in this game). Part of it is surely that I don't have the patience for the micromanagment required; part of it is also that the two AI's I'm trying to take out right now have both switched into democracy (don't you just hate that?). But part of it is just that I don't know what I'm doing. I think I may play my next few games as bloodlust, just to hone these skills. Thanks agian everyone!

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Dig trenches, with our men being killed off like flies? There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made. Here, run out and get some trenches.
-- Rufus T. Firefly, the original rush-builder

[towigg]

quote: Originally posted by Everyman on 04-27-2001 02:51 PM I am inclined to stay with Communism. If you have Adam Smith, you should be able to keep the money coming in while not falling behind in science.

I know the game rules allow this, but it seems to be an oxymoron to have Adam Smith working under Communism. Adam Smith was the ultimate free trader, and Communism opposes Capitalism. I would like to see a modification that would disable Adam Smith WoW as long as Communism is in effect. Also, Communism should have more penalties for production and higher corruption. As history has shown us, Communist nations have very poor production and high corruption rates, like in the former Soviet Union. Good Riddance to Soviet Communism.

An aside: I was playing a game not too long ago in ToT where Russia went Fundy and was ruled by Patriarch Lenin. It seemed bizarre that a commie from history would have a religious title. I would rather have Peter the Great or Ivan the Terrible represent Russia, since they both did a lot to advance and expand Russia, while Lenin just brought pain and misery. Who represents Russia in regular Civ II or MGE? Same with China. I would rather see Sun Yat Sen instead of Mao.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Towigg, edit that rules.txt! If you quit and reload, any changes you make to the file set the game anew, even with saved games. A fine way to add color to the same old civs, leaders, and titles. Have a few versions handy for quick switches.

You could also edit the communist settings at the top - my rules.txt has commie palace distance = 5, allowing some local snitching from the collective pot. free unit support could be dropped to 2 or 1, as you see fit.

Back to the topic, I always go with communism while unifying the world. Veteran spies are indispensible, and the lack of unhappiness helpful while convincing neighbors of my superior ways. The economy can really churn out the cash if you spent the early game maximizing trade, too.

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"There is no fortress impregnable to an ass laden with gold."
-Philip of Macedon

[War4ever]

no offense to any advice given as it is all sound....... but i would stay commie and fight an old fashioned war...... ie no bribery...... bribery is the easy way and doesnt' test your warmongering abilities.

With only that many ai cities left, you should pick off the solo civs first.... then make the push for multi civ continents...... you only need a small war machine for this and as long as it is a vet army , you should have no problems taking a civ down in one turn.

to do this though you may want to prep your self by doing quick wlt*d and leap up in tech to have a decisive advantage. With any tech window you should with proper planning be able to take out a civ in one go.

I suggest crushing the capital and perhaps two or three neighboring cities by force and then if your coffers will allow bribing the remaining few.

Sit back relax..... have a puff on the cigar and repeat the process. I always start with easy pickings to boost the morale of my troops