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**Eli** · April 14, 2001, 05:34

quote:

Section 2.1, Opening: There's a lot of excellent advice about where to site your city, but nothing about how long you should continue searching before abandoning that game and trying again! I've wandered to and fro till after 2000 BC without finding anywhere suitable, and had at least 10 false starts before I got a suitable site for my second Warlord game (including all the throw-aways because there was only 1 settler; I'm playing MGE, if that makes any difference...)

If after 10 turns I dont find a city site I try a new game.
Also, you can always challenge yourself by building the city not in very good spots for OCC.

quote:

Following on from the above, is it a good or bad idea to found a city straight away in 4000 BC if you happen to start in a good spot? Or should you explore a bit to find other civs and/or goody huts with possible extra units? I had two games where I only had contact with one other civ., which greatly limited knowledge exchanges and trading.

If you can build your city in 4000BC then do it.
You dont need your settler to get goody huts and find other civs, you can always build some explorer or other fast unit later.

------------------
Builder.

"Antisemites? They are just the descendants of monkeys and are jealous of the descendants of Adam and Eve"

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**Ilkuul** · April 14, 2001, 09:08

Many thanks, Eli/Builder! That's helpful.

Now can I ask you (or anyone else!) a couple of other things?

Paulicy, Section 2.2, Period after the Opening: "If you are waiting around for the trade technology to come, and really have nothing to build, I build a diplomat... If you already have trade and have nothing to build, build caravans."
?????? During this period so far I have never had time to build either a diplomat or caravans (apart from the 3 required for trading with other civs)!! Later in the game I can build them, but not under Monarchy or Republic. Does that mean I'm not getting enough resources, or not micromanaging well enough??

Why (with MGE) does the option to demand tribute disappear after establishing a Republic? Is there anything one can do to 'keep' it?

Connected with the previous, what do you do under Republic when, to keep WLTCD working, you have to have luxuries so high that expenditure is higher than income? Reduce science, or run at a deficit? (Remember, at these times under MGE I've been unable to ask for tribute from other civs.)

Finally, a very important question that's cropped up again and again: How much food surplus do you need? I've often found myself at zero surplus, and then I stop growing; but if I irrigate at the cost of shields, I later have to get more shields again to achieve the 34-shield base.

Many thanks again for helping me out with these queries!

**Paul** · April 14, 2001, 16:37

Actually, you would only have time to build diplomats or food caravans at that time if you're not making discoveries fast enough. If your science is coming along at a decent pace, you will more likely have the problem of deciding which of the important buildings and wonders you should build first.

You cannot demand tribute in republic or democracy. That's why it's important to get alliances; you can ask for gifts from your allies under republic and democracy.

If you have to raise luxuries to keep your WLTCD going, you should either lower science or tax rate, depending on the situation. If you have enough gold in your treasury, you can run at a deficit. But if you're low on gold you should keep a surplus; after all, you wouldn't want to have your building sold when you're unable to pay maintenance.

As far as food surplus is concerned, you should have enough to grow to a size where you can work all squares in your city radius and possibly have some scientists, but you should not irrigate so many forests that you don't get enough shields to build ss-structurals in one turn. I would not irrigate forests if I would later have to plant them back to get enough shields, because in that case you would also run the risk of losing engineers or population through starvation. A food deficit of one or two is acceptable if your food box is full enough to survive to the end without starvation.

**Ilkuul** · April 15, 2001, 15:00

Heel hartelijk bedankt, Paul! (My wife is Dutch...)

Your answer to my last question leads on to another one that I had been wanting to ask, and that is, how do you calculate maximum city size? In several places you talk about growing your city to maximum size, but presumably that differs according to surrounding terrain. (Forgive me if this seems a rather simple question, but OCC is proving a very useful learning experience for me, as I've tended to play 'rough and ready' in the past, never bothering too much about micromanagement.)

In MGE, in the mid-to-late game, I've started coming to the conclusion that it's hardly worth approaching other civs unless they seem likely to attack. Many times I've sent an emissary with the intention of offering techs, only to have them demand almost all my gold or declare war. So it really seems better to "let sleeping civs lie"! And in fact I've found (at least at Chieftain & Warlord, and I can well believe this might change at higher levels!), that when I leave them alone, they tend to leave me alone as well. What would you say about this?

How do you respond to a situation where an enemy city is built overlapping your city radius, and due to incursions of barbarians or enemy units, they are able to grab a couple of your tiles (maybe including a special!)? Place units there and risk provoking hostilities? - bearing in mind that in MGE I often find myself in a situation where other civs just don't listen when I try to offer gifts...

Many thanks again for help in coming to grips with this new way of playing! It's really been quite an eye-opener.

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OCC: Questions, questions, questions... !!

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