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The "Size-5" strategy

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  • The "Size-5" strategy

    Deity Level.

    (a-c same as ICS)
    a) Build two cities close to each other, on high food production squares.
    b) Build a settler in city #1, and a warrior in city #2 for exploring (maybe 1 or 2 more for martial law).
    c) Use the city #1 settler to build city #3.

    d) Build warriors in city #1 for martial law.
    e) meanwhile build a settler in city #2 and another in city #3.
    f) as soon as city #1 grows to size 3, add the two settlers to city #1.

    g) change all 5 citizens in city #1 to scientists until food is exhausted, then put 4 of the citizens back to work on grassland for one turn (to get at least 1 food reserve in food box). Change the 5th citizen to an entertainer if necessary. Then change them to scientists again.
    h) city #1 start to build temple (if not available build barracks then switch to temple when the tech is available).

    i) repeat this cycle: continue to build settlers in cities #2 and #3. Use the settler of city #2 to build city #4, then use the settlers of cities #3 and #4 to add to city #2 after it reaches size 3.

    With this strategy you'll get Monarchy faster since each size 5 city will produce 18-20 science every two turns (16 when all 5 are scientists, 2-4 when put them back to work). That's 9 sciences per city per turn. Remember a size 2 city usually only has 1 science output per turn (unless on specials). Thus one size 5 city will be equivalent to 9 size 2 cities in science output!

    You'll also be able to build wonders faster from size 5 cities, if you choose to do so. Hence it is quite possible that you build HG before your ICS player opponent, thus giving him a hard time.

  • #2
    This is quite brilliant.... how does it fare after Monarchy i wonder? Xin are you connecting the cities with roads before adding them to the city?
    Boston Red Sox are 2004 World Series Champions!


    • #3
      that reads impressive, though I don´t know if I understand it completely. maybe, if you´re online now,you can show me in a game.
      settings (1xprod or 2xprod) don´t seem to matter, sice you´re dealing with scientists, right?
      justice is might


      • #4
        I agree that this sounds like very sound advice, but there's also a part of it that I don't understand, namely:


        Originally posted by Xin Yu on 09-08-2000 08:28 PM
        g) change all 5 citizens in city #1 to scientists until food is exhausted, then put 4 of the citizens back to work on grassland for one turn (to get at least 1 food reserve in food box). Change the 5th citizen to an entertainer if necessary. Then change them to scientists again.

        It's the part about putting 4 of the scientists to work for one turn that escapes me. How do you mean to avoid the drop in population by making them work grassland for one single turn if the food storage is exhausted? Do you add another settler to the city after it drops to size 4, or did I miss something else?

        Please elaborate Xin Yu, and thanks for the advice! I'm sure it'll be useful in most games if one is inclined to play this way. Me, I'm still mostly into OCC. But that might change and I'll remember this gem.


        • #5
          War4: road is not very important since scientists do not have waste/corruption. However I still prefer to build roads for faster unit movements.

          Oedo: it works better for 1x production. You trade your productivity (e.g., 2 food, 1 shield, and 1 trade if worked on roaded grass) for a specialist, which gives 3 science bults or 3 golds. The benefit is that you have full control of the distribution rate (you can have in effect 100% tax or 100% science under any government form), and there's no corruption.
          For 2x it is less favorable since your productivity is doubled (a grass gives 4 food, 2 shields, and 1 trade, a forest, gives 2 food and 4 shields) but a scientist still only has 3 science bulbs. I still do it in selected cities for faster wonder building.

          Legman: If the food box has 1 food left but you have more than 1 food deficit, the city can still last for 1 turn. So you only need to put enough workers back for one turn in order to get 1 food in the food box. The next turn you can change all citizens back to scientists with a huge food deficit without any problem.


          • #6
            I have been doing something very much like this in the current game I am playing. I modified the strategy a bit to account for the fact that good trade specials (gold, silk) around my size five city have greater productivity than the corresponding scientist would. The initial size five city happened to be my capital, so there is no corruption problem. In later years combine this with two or three domestic trade routes which feed into a Super Science City and you can really kick a**. This strategy works great. I hope to land on AC before 1000 AD. The only down side is that micromanaging is very time-consuming.

            Old posters never die.
            [This message has been edited by Adam Smith (edited September 09, 2000).]
            Old posters never die.
            They j.u.s.t..f..a..d..e...a...w...a...y....


            • #7
              Yet another candidate for GLoA - great work Xin and thanks for sharing ...

              Scouse Git[1]

              "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
              "The Great Library must be built!"
              "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
              "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit


              • #8
                As usual Xin... another grand insight.
                I'll have to try that in games where I can't find trade specials for my early cities.
                But a question... By the time your cities get to size 5, shouldn't you already have been in Monarchy for a long time already
                Keep on Civin'
                RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O


                • #9
                  Is it just me who doesn't get it by now? Wouldn't changing 4 of the 5 scientists back to working food squares on alternate turns - once the food storage is exhausted - by and large remove the benefits of the strategy? Or is it that the brilliance of this scheme is totally above my head? Could be...


                  • #10
                    Not necessarily Legs... You should be able to generate more than just one extra food. Two or three food extra would be pretty standard. If the city has marginal trade while working the crops, you could even send it into disorder by working the fifth citizen instead of making him an Elvis. Food still accrues during disorder. Using the five sci method will also allow you to build on hills since you get two food, versus forest where you only get one...

                    Xin's similar use of scientists tip in the RedFront scenario convinces me that this is a very powerful tactic. Building on trade specials might even make it more so. Also, you can in an emergency keep those scientists thinking even if the city dips down to 4 or 3 or 2 or 1 citizen. Useful if you HAVE to get monotheism next turn or if you want to disband a captured city in a bad location.
                    Be the bid!


                    • #11
                      Thanks for further explaining this to me Sten and Xin Yu. And for the educational nature of it! I am now convinced that it's my own limited ability to envision how this would work in a game that's causing confusion.

                      I've never tried anything like this, but once I'm back from my vacation I'll try it out in a new game and see what happens. Right now, I've got other turkeys to shoot! Gotta love that phrase...


                      • #12
                        If I build on high food square,how am I gonna build a settler in my capitol first before size 2?I have no gold as I have no units out exploring getting gold.

                        What exactly is a high food square.

                        By the time I build all those settlers and warriors I would normally be in Monarchy and be close to finishing a wonder.What is the time table on this?

                        Is this for mp?What about barbs?How do hold my size fivers with warriors?

                        I'm a little unclear.

                        [This message has been edited by Smash (edited October 29, 2000).]
                        The only thing that matters to me in a MP game is getting a good ally.Nothing else is as important.......Xin Yu


                        • #13
                          Thank you, Xin Yu. This is brilliant!
                          If you can not think of a good reason to build something other than a caravan, build a caravan!


                          • #14
                            Oh never mind, I understand it now.
                            I was just really tired when I read that thread.
                            [This message has been edited by SilverDragon (edited September 11, 2000).]


                            • #15
                              [This message has been edited by SilverDragon (edited September 11, 2000).]