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  • Tech path priority after Monarchy

    Like everyone else my early tech path and tech trading is dominated by the compulsion to get crowned.

    Previously, once Monarchy has been achieved I have thereafter been pulled in several different tech path directions. No surprise that Currency then Trade has had strong attractions. Map Making, bringing with it the ability to build a trireme, is always desirable and can be absolutely vital. I build a temple in my capital and may build others too so maybe I should go for Mysticism to maximise their value and may then lead on to joining in the race for the free tech which Philosophy brings. And there are wonders to consider, and the desire for the comfort of the phalanx's defensive qualities.

    But, in fact, I have latterly been sucumbing to the blandishments of my political adviser and researching the wonders of Writing as the next priority.

    It is not so much that I want her to get her hooks into other nations straight away, but rather the measure of security against the barbarian hordes which the first diplo brings, together with the opportunities which the arrival of those self same barbs confer when the doubty diplo is in your camp.

    I played a game the other day when I got some cash early and was then able to bribe a barb trireme incredibly early on. The rapid exploration this allowed was decisive. My path to Monarchy was rapid when I got the chance to trade for one of the critical techs (which also knocked out the need to research a non Monarchy tech) and I picked up an early advanced tribe (I have little doubt that there is a weighting in favour of that outcome for the first grassland/plains hut tipped on any new landmass).

    But the main benefit is simply that the risk of the early loss to an unlucky barb incursion is pretty well eliminated plus you get to plan hut tipping better. You can leave nearby huts until they can be tipped with the diplo handy to mop up a barb outcome.

    I suspect that this approach is working so well for me that the only time I'm going to delay Writing in the future is when Map Making is of overriding importance. And even then Writing is going to come next.

    Luckily, so far the option always seems available, even after an unwanted Warrior Code.

    What is your priority after Monarchy, and why?

  • #2
    After Monarchy, I used to rush to Philosophy to get that free tech. These days, I really like to get Wonders early, so I try for Trade instead. Caravans help me rush-buy the really key early wonders (Colossus, HG, sometimes Pyramids). Plus, getting some trade routes in place early can help the cash flow situation.

    On the other hand, Philosophy requires Literacy which is right on the path to Republic... and once I have HG, I always want to switch to Republic...

    Decisions, decisions! After Republic, I head for Monotheism, and then Invention (Leos), and then Gunpowder to make my cities relatively secure.

    The one route I avoid is the Warrior Code/Feudalism/Chivalry path - like most others here do, I bet And unless I'm stuck on an island (I usually play on large/continents maps), I can get away with not going the Map Making/Seafaring/Navigation route for a while.

    STYOM
    "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

    "Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
    "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)

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    • #3
      quote:

      The one route I avoid is the Warrior Code/Feudalism/Chivalry path - like most others here do, I bet


      Actually, this route is very important to my style (minus chivalry), because i go right after theology and bachs cathedral. Besides the obvious advantage of having one of the best happiness wonders, it cancels someone elses oracle (which i try to never have to build).

      My #1 priority after monarchy is trade....get those camels out in a hurry and use them to gain a good lead on the rest of the field.
      I see the world through bloodshot eyes
      Streets filled with blood from distant lies.

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      • #4
        I admit I'm still hooked on getting Philosophy after Monarchy- I HATE it when an AI civ gets it 1st! Since both Writing and Mysticism are on this route (important for the reasons EST mentions), and that Literacy is needed for Repubic, I don't consider it a wasted trip. I almost always take Mapmaking as my freebie (which you & the AI need in order to trade maps).
        Lately I've been reconsidering, wondering if I should head for Trade a lot earlier. Or maybe straight to Monotheism after Monarchy. I'm even working on a strategy involving the Pyramids so Masonry, which I used to ignore for a while, is coming a lot earlier. Decisions, decisions.

        As for that war/feu/chi route, well I'm no fan of warrior code or a big one of chivalry, but I am a Sun Tzu's fan bigtime, and I much prefer veteran pikemen over non-vet phalanxes. So gimmee Feudalism ASAP!
        I'm consitently stupid- Japher
        I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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        • #5
          I think it depends on 3 factors:

          1. the conditions of victory;

          - If it's BH i'll take war techs first, if its space conquest, philosohy is the choice

          2. The level

          - If i play in prince level, i know i can get philosophy before AI, but in deity, it's different

          3. THe free startin' sciences

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          • #6
            quote:

            Originally posted by Theben on 01-31-2001 02:34 PM
            I almost always take Mapmaking as my freebie (which you & the AI need in order to trade maps).

            As for that war/feu/chi route, well I'm no fan of warrior code or a big one of chivalry, but I am a Sun Tzu's fan bigtime, and I much prefer veteran pikemen over non-vet phalanxes. So gimmee Feudalism ASAP!


            I forgot about the ability to trade maps that comes with Mapmaking... but in my games, it seems the AI is always reluctant to trade maps! If I played on a smaller board (and ran into the AI civs sooner) or one that wasn't mainly continents, I'd probably take MM sooner.

            As for pikemen versus phalanxes... I'd prefer pikes over phalanxes too, but I'd rather make a beeline for Gunpowder, and get there a few turns sooner.

            The one thing I really admire about CivII is how each of us can probably justify *any* tech path based on their own individual advantages and our game styles. Same goes for wonders (except Eiffel Tower!).

            STYOM
            "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

            "Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
            "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)

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            • #7
              After Monarchy, I usally go for Literacy, and also like to get Philosophy, since an added bonus on this trail is Mysticism, so I can get Astronomy, as I like to have the Copernicus's Observatory. I try to avoid conflict atleast until the Industrial Revolution, But this is difficult(to say the least), at higher levels. I always try the path of knowledge(if I want conflict, I will play one the many fine scenarios on the net), but conquest often becomes neccesary if only to thwart unruly civs bent on conquest or intimidation. I do hope a more peaceful alternative is in civ-3, as being sneaked attacked by those bloody french for the hundredth time is quite tiresome at times. Other times boldface conquest is the order of the day. I hope we have more of a choice in the next version.

              ------------------
              All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.
              I believe Saddam because his position is backed up by logic and reason...David Floyd
              i'm an ignorant greek...MarkG

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              • #8
                quote:

                Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man on 01-31-2001 03:59 PM
                I forgot about the ability to trade maps that comes with Mapmaking... but in my games, it seems the AI is always reluctant to trade maps! If I played on a smaller board (and ran into the AI civs sooner) or one that wasn't mainly continents, I'd probably take MM sooner.


                The AI will trade with you if you your relations are worshipful, or even enthusiastic sometimes. If you are allied they almost always trade maps with you. I find it useful since I invariably play on large maps-saves some exploration time.

                quote:

                As for pikemen versus phalanxes... I'd prefer pikes over phalanxes too, but I'd rather make a beeline for Gunpowder, and get there a few turns sooner.


                Well like I said a like Sun Tzu's; no, I LOVE Sun Tzu's! It saves me the headache of micromanaging my cities so that I must send units from my "barracks" cities all over creation, plus isolated &/or new cities build vets also. In addition, air & sea units benefits if they win their 1st combat by automatically becoming veteran. That's why I troll coastlines with frigates & ironclads, looking for settlers and explorers for easy kills and instant vet status before hunting the big game.
                Gunpowder's nice, but my mod tends to push it back a bit in discovery time so no real "beeline" is available.
                I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                Comment


                • #9
                  EST - Good question!

                  I usually play large or giga maps so I place a high priority on movement and logistics.

                  Assuming no starting techs:

                  Monarchy techs, with Horseback Riding as the "other" one you have to research prior to your coronation. This is mainly for Barb protection and in the hope of 150 gold coins.

                  After Monarchy: Pottery (HG)
                  Currency or Map Making
                  Trade (Marco) - essential for tech trading and maps. I use MPE to obtain techs on the way to Navigation. With Magellan's and Caravels moving 5, carrying 3 caravans, you have a huge early financial and scientific edge during the BC years. I usually combine this with an ICS approach that offers options for conquest or occasionally AC.

                  -----------------

                  SG(2)
                  "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                  "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

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                  • #10
                    After Monarchy..... trade , then writing, Philosophy, mono.invention.... repub, demo, then feudal route.... if by land. I like leos before suns.... although if i get bogged down by science i switch it up.

                    Obviously with an island start..... i will get mapmaking as a priority and rule the seas with lighthouse and magellens.

                    its so easy to get a leg up on the ai..... only on a rare occassion do they frustrate me to the point where i want to put their heads on a pike.... ususally i am calm as i KNOW i am going to add to my "headhunters" collection eventually.... plus i like sending my young men to the slaughter LOL

                    I try to build as few wonders as possible now ... letting the ai build them so i can take them from them.
                    Nothing more gratifying than relieving the ai of its prized possesions.

                    Still..... a raging warmongering tribe left to its own devices.... can be like a mosquito flying around your head at night... you hear the buzzing but the thing is so stupd it doesn't know when it is beaten
                    Boston Red Sox are 2004 World Series Champions!

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                    • #11
                      quote:

                      <font size=1>Originally posted by East Street Trader on 01-31-2001 12:46 PM</font>
                      Like everyone else my early tech path and tech trading is dominated by the compulsion to get crowned.


                      LOL EST

                      Ahem, I shalt not abide by thy laws me lord but by my own.

                      emm, in other words, I'd prefer to say (instead of what comes after monarchy) that for as long as I remember, my first in EVERY SINGLE GAME advances are Alphabet (if I don't already have it) and writing.

                      After those it's open game altough Monarchy is a top priority. After that still, the game needs direct me.

                      There are two exception though. After a while I do plan to achieve Monotheism fast and later on Electronics.

                      Michaelangelo Chapel and Hoover Dam are so vital to my way of playing that I have been known to strip down my whole civ in order to get them. There were occasions that I beat the AI only by one turn. And there was one time that I sold nearly everything that was for sale in my civ in order to build the wonders first.

                      Recently I chase Tactics as well for those funny guys in yellow costumes as I can more or less secure my perfectionist state early on.
                      [This message has been edited by paiktis22 (edited January 31, 2001).]

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                      • #12
                        Great question! I'd been thinking about asking this myself.

                        I tend to play as a perfectionist democracy headed for AC, and put a lot of emphasis on certain woders. Assuming no techs; I first research Bronze Working, for Phalanxes and for an early start on the Colossus. Then I make a beeline for monarchy. Then it's currency, trade, pottery (for HG), and then I head for Philosophy, taking Astronomy-based techs on turns I'm forced to detour. After Philosophy, it's Astronomy, then Monotheism, Invention, Democracy, Economics, and finally the Theory of Gravity (usually acquired before Econ, actually, as a detour tech), building all of the associated wonders except SoL. After that, it depends on my position in the world.
                        "I have as much authority as the pope. I just don't have as many people who believe it." George Carlin

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                        • #13
                          Strange --- no advocates of early Republic?
                          Ribannah where are you ??

                          ------------------
                          ____________
                          Scouse Git[1]

                          "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
                          "The Great Library must be built!"
                          "A short cut has to be challenging,
                          were it not so it would be 'the way'."
                          - Paul Craven
                          "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                          "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

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                          • #14
                            First I go for Bronze Working for Collossus. Then I head for Astronomy as soon as possible to get Copernicus' Observatory and then for Theory of Gravity for Issac Newton's College. After that I go for Invention.

                            ------------------
                            Kitana
                            Shogun of the Japanese
                            Kitana
                            Shogun of the Japanese

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                            • #15
                              quote:

                              Originally posted by Scouse Gits on 02-01-2001 07:26 AM
                              Strange --- no advocates of early Republic?


                              I try to stay away from the Republic if my science city is working correctly. The shields lost for defense and exploration under early republics can be a drain on wonder building. And also, there is always some troublsome tribe that must be destroyed, and the senate can always be counted on to prematurly end the war when I'm on the verge of total victory, leaving me set up for the treaty breaking sneak attack that is sure to follow! After industrialization, a republic or democracy will be my gov, but I try to avoid it early, as the revolts and unhappiness can be quite tiresome.


                              ------------------
                              All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.
                              I believe Saddam because his position is backed up by logic and reason...David Floyd
                              i'm an ignorant greek...MarkG

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