2x2x-deity single player experiences

[weird god]

i tried it once some time ago but i got the feeling the AI really sucks at this settings. i played the egypts (or the babs, i can´t remember) on the standard med-world-map. actually my intention was to get a feeling about mid- and late-game-behavior on 2x2x, but i didn´t even finish bachs because at about 100bc the game was over. all conquered, no AI left even with the restart-civ-option on. did anyone else tried this out? is the AI so bad at 2x2x even on deity?

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[DaveV]

2x anything magnifies the AI's weaknesses:

- doesn't know how to sleaze
- builds cities in dumb places
- irrigates WAY too much
- prioritizes high-food squares at the expense of shields and arrows
- doesn't go after huts
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited January 24, 2001).]

[Alinestra Covelia]

At the risk of being chased through the Apolyton marketplace dressed in a fishing net and with my right leg stapled to a donkey's harness,

"What does 2x2x-deity" mean?

[weird god]

quote: Originally posted by Alinestra "What does 2x2x-deity" mean?

double movement, double production, deity level

[SandMonkey]

quote: Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia on 01-24-2001 01:48 PM At the risk of being chased through the Apolyton marketplace dressed in a fishing net and with my right leg stapled to a donkey's harness

Damn S&M freaks...

[SlowThinker]

quote: <font size=1>Originally posted by DaveV on 01-24-2001 01:17 PM</font> 2x anything magnifies the AI's weaknesses: - doesn't know how to sleaze - builds cities in dumb places - irrigates WAY too much - prioritizes high-food squares at the expense of shields and arrows - doesn't go after huts <font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited January 24, 2001).]</font>

I don't understand how thoses things may be magnified by 2x2x

I am not an expert in 2x2x (I played it couple hours only ), but I suppose, that if we will disregard non-overland units, then 2x2x is very similar to 1x1x and only differences are:
1. In economy, you may control and adjust cities only every second turn, and so micromanagement is harder.
2. In military, you must do moves from two subsequents turns all at once, and so attacker has a big advantage.

Am I right?
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 24, 2001).]

[Campo]

How do you start a 2x2x game? I've seen mention of it here, but I've never seen the option in my game setup.

Does it have to be double production and double movement, or can you mix and match?

[DaveV]

SlowThinker - in 2x production, roads and irrigation are of relatively less value. Trade specials are extremely valuable. In 2x movement, hut-tipping will greatly expand your civ while the AIs remain relatively static. Then you can kill them with all of your hut-generated units. And I think you misunderstand 2x: 2x production means every square produces double what it does in a normal game (e.g. forest produces 2 food and 4 shields). +1 bonuses are still only plus 1, though (irrigation, roads, building city on non-shield grass), so terrain improvement is relatively less productive. You still manage your cities every turn. 2x movement means every unit has double its normal movement, so horses move 4 instead of 2. As you said, this greatly aids the attacker (especially when you can build 2-move catapults).

Campo - you need MGE to play 2x. If you have TCP/IP installed in your windows, just start an internet game with the number of player you want (you plus the desired number of AIs). Then click on "start game", pick your civ, and you're off. If you can't start an internet game, you can play hotseat. In both cases, there's an option menu where you can specify 2x production and/or 2x movement.

[oedo]

you can fix some things in the rules.txt. for example you can set Minimum govt level necessary for computer player to want to perform irrigate/mine at 0 for all terrain types. however it doesn´t help that much too. I still even don´t notice that there´s an AI on board
I´ve played some 2x2x single games though. but when I play them I set challenges like having unbelievable amount of cities in 2000BC (I remember having 47 in one king game but that´s definetly beatable) or revealing/conquering the map earliest possible. I think that´s a pretty entertaining way of playing.

[oedo]

oh and Campo, you can also change the rules.txt that way you can play 2x2x settings with v2.42. simply change the corresponding values at terrains and units.

[SlowThinker]

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 01-26-2001 08:32 AMYou still manage your cities every turn.

"COMPARISON"
Yes, but if I want to compare 2x2x with 1x1x, I may imagine that I play 1x1x AND I can manage my cities and move units only every second turn.

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 01-26-2001 08:32 AM And I think you misunderstand 2x: 2x production means every square produces double what it does in a normal game (e.g. forest produces 2 food and 4 shields). +1 bonuses are still only plus 1, though (irrigation, roads, building city on non-shield grass), so terrain improvement is relatively less productive.

So I should add to my last post
3. Irrig./min./roads has only half value.
and probably
4. Unit support is halved.

quote: Originally posted by DaveV on 01-26-2001 08:32 AM In 2x movement, hut-tipping will greatly expand your civ while the AIs remain relatively static. Then you can kill them with all of your hut-generated units.

I am not sure if I understand you. Do you agree with "COMPARISON"? Do you want to say that decrease of benefits of irr./min. is huge, and so it is good to focus effort to hut tipping?

[Campo]

DaveV and Odeo,

Thanks for the info. I have both 2.42 (which I usually play) and MGE.

I'm interested in 2x in the hope of speeding up the game. I really enjoy Civ2 but don't have much time to play. But if the AI is hampered further by the doubles then that wouldn't be a good solution. I'll give it a try though.

[oedo]

SlowThinker, it´s not only that 2x production grows twice as fast and produces twices as fast. these settings are much more effective for other reasons.
one example: a city founded on a forest square surrounded by nothing but water and forest has no chance to survive on 1x1x settings. on 2x production, however, this city will become very effective. when you have republik or democracy you even can grow this city to 20 using all forest and water squares in the city radius. HG and 30% luxury is usually enough. finally you will have built a monster city.
remember, this part of the map would stay empty in 1x games. or the terrain has to be transformed and irrigated before. you will probably need a whole game to grow this city to size 20 and in the end you will have at best a mediocre city.
[This message has been edited by oedo (edited January 27, 2001).]

[SlowThinker]

I think I undestand. I have to add to "COMPARISON"
5. Food support is demanded every second turn only.

Food surplus is very large. This changes things very much.