Knights v Crusaders.

[Like2frolick]

Hmmm..... Must try Crusaders, then.

[Ming]

quote: Originally posted by Like2frolick on 12-16-2000 11:55 PM Hmmm..... Must try Crusaders, then.

Good Idea

[Seeker]

I always end up with Crusaders 'cause I'm at Monotheism long before I'm at feaudalism (usually).

In fact, I rarely ever build knights. Instead, I'll build cats to upgrade to cannon.

[Ken Hinds]

Peanut Gallary comment here. To get free Knight's with Leo's you need a lot of fairly useless (IMO) horsemen, but free Cruisader's can be had from fairly useful elephants.

Ken

[Kitana]

I would have to say both. The reason is this: Crusaders are a good attack unit to have IN your cities so if an Archer or Catapult or Knight does come up to your city you can take it out with out much problem.

Knights are good OUT of your city because they can take an attack (usually) if they end their turn close to a city and are attacked by an Archer or Catapult or even a Crusader.

So I vote for both.


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Kitana
Shogun of the Japanese

[kcbob]

quote: Originally posted by Ken Hinds on 12-17-2000 09:47 AM Peanut Gallary comment here. To get free Knight's with Leo's you need a lot of fairly useless (IMO) horsemen, but free Cruisader's can be had from fairly useful elephants. Ken

This is an interesting observation. I, too, find horsemen to be not worth the time and effort. If I'm playing a strict ICS game, I make a beeline for elephants. Then, with Leo's and Mono, voila!!

As an added note, I also like to head for Leadership if I have a sizable supply of Crusaders. Dragoons are a nice upgrade.

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Frodo lives!

[Edward]

quote: I, too, find horsemen to be not worth the time and effort.

Horsemen can be good for early exploration. I generally build warriors for early exploration, since horseback riding isn't on my peaceful science tech path and warriors are so darned cheap.

In a recent game, I obtained horseback riding in a stupid trade with the Vikings. I found that the lowly horsemen could ride out of my border cities and attack almost any early invader. They even stood an even chance against the mighty legion. (Admittedly the horsemen benefitted from open ground.) I have a new respect for these cheap, fast units.

[Kitana]

quote: Originally posted by Edward on 12-18-2000 10:55 AM Horsemen can be good for early exploration. I generally build warriors for early exploration, since horseback riding isn't on my peaceful science tech path and warriors are so darned cheap. In a recent game, I obtained horseback riding in a stupid trade with the Vikings. I found that the lowly horsemen could ride out of my border cities and attack almost any early invader. They even stood an even chance against the mighty legion. (Admittedly the horsemen benefitted from open ground.) I have a new respect for these cheap, fast units.

I don't usually research horseback riding until after I've got the science wonder techs, engineering and invention. But if I find a horseman I'll use it but generally don't ever build them.




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Kitana
Shogun of the Japanese

[Bohlen]

quote: Originally posted by kcbob on 12-18-2000 07:59 AM As an added note, I also like to head for Leadership if I have a sizable supply of Crusaders. Dragoons are a nice upgrade.

Ahhh! Leadership! Now THAT is a game buster!

[Edward]

Off-topic meta question:

How do you include quotes in your post which name the original poster?

[kcbob]

quote: Originally posted by Edward on 12-18-2000 11:41 AM Off-topic meta question: How do you include quotes in your post which name the original poster?

The easiest way is to click on the "Reply with Quote" button above the particular message to which you wish to reply. It is possible to key in the proper commands also.

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Frodo lives!

[Mercantile]

kcbob, i too like dragoons and admittedly they are enough against the inept ai, but i would say that calvalry are just waaaaaaaay more powerfull and the upgrade via leos is right around the corner not too mention the musket to riflemen upgrade as well, virtually guarranteeing (spelling???) your invincibility

[Maelhavok]

Horsies? I like Horsies.

Horsemen are good scouts, and early game are indispensable for preemtive strikes. Their ability to catch the Barbarian leader $$ never goes away. Plus they enforce morale as well as any. With roads in my core cities, a few horse can rush to morale flare ups as well as enable me to use economy of force concepts. Not to mention, they're cheap. Finally, Leo's always makes me wish I had built more of them, 'cause knights are so much better.
Knights are everything that Horsmen are but better (cost more too). They fight as well as a legion but with all the advantages of mobility. They can move and fortify! In civs with roads or river squares they are potent scouts/strike units as they can cover 3 squares and be attack-ready and still move 2 squares and fortify (My tactic for sweeping held water and roadways is 3 out 2 back and F).
Elephants aren't horsies.
Crusaders I think of as mobile cannon. They are excellent city crackers, but don't let a bee sting them or they will die.
Utilizing your mobile army for maximum benifit is one of my favorite aspects of the conquest side of Civ2. The AI Monguls are always such a disappointment.

Merry Holidays,

Maelhavok

P.S. Pikemen are evil


P.P.S. Really
[This message has been edited by Maelhavok (edited December 23, 2000).]

[Matthew]

Chivalry is on the tech path for leadership. Monotheism is not. In fact, if you're not going to get MC, you may be better off doing without mono for a while. Build collosseums first instead of Cathedrals. I'm sure that a lot can be said for getting leadership early, especially if you get it well before some big plump civ out there has had a chance to upgrade many units to musketeers.

On the other hand, if you are going to go for an early attack with mobile units, you probably would like Feudalism to not even be in the game yet. If you have it, your intended victim can get it either by stealing it from you, from the GL as soon as someone else gets it, or from retaking a city you captured. And you need Feudalism to get Chivalry.

[Ken Hinds]

My biggest complaint about Feudalism/Chivalry is that some yoyo gets Feudalism and right away the bararians start having pikeman and if anyone has ever noticed they also seem to have their own private Tsung-Tsu's. If you don't kill the sucker then your vet 2 move unit is toast if he ever gets back to even yellow let along green. And not long after feudalism rears its head you start seeing caravels dumping out 5 or 6 knights on your doorstep.

One thing that I do find useful about the situation, if I could only control it better, is finding several huts on that the opposition missed amoung their cities and having 8 knights pop out when you tip the hut. That way I don't have to waste troops attacking their cities. The barbs will do that for me and then for a modest fee I get the city and the some of the remaining knights.

Ken