Stopping the howitzer

[drake]

EST inspired the start of this topic with this quote :

quote: Howies are too strong. How do players defend against them in MP (assuming any MP game gets that far)?

*

Think about this for a second.....what makes the howitzers so dangerous besides the obvious (their immense attack strength)????

It is their means of travel of course. It is the railroad that makes them un-stoppable! In MP, you shouldn't build any railroads that your enemy can use to their advantage at all, because they will take advantage of them for sure! I am not proposing that you not build railroads at all, but if you cant defend them, don't build them. If you anticipate attack, sever your rail system from the enemy and their howitzers movement will be severely cut down. Scatter a few air bases in the outskirts and use cruise missiles and fighters to patrol the enemy advance.....they won't be able to move quickly enough to get by such a barrier if you set it up right......of course they will eventually catch on, but no strategy works forever in mp.

There are holes to this strategy of course, and a lot of what ifs, but that goes with the territory right?

The last strategy I posted was proven to be holy as cheese....hopefully this will hold more merit in the eyes of the great warriors who responded to that post...

I have many other ideas on how to stop the howitzer, but I'll wait to see what people think of this first.

*Of course if you are heavily outclassed by your enemy, it doesn't matter what your strategy is at all....bottomless pockets will lead to an un-stoppable army. If your superior foes technology has reached robotics you can probably kiss it goodbye.....

[kcbob]

quote: Originally posted by drake on 11-09-2000 01:14 PM The last strategy I posted was proven to be holy as cheese....hopefully this will hold more merit in the eyes of the great warriors who responded to that post...

I don't recall seeing your last suggestion but this one looks very good. I hadn't really thought about this but I think you've hit the nail on the head. Maybe why it never occurred to me before was because the idea of tearing up my own RR never crossed my mind.

Next time I see an AI howitzer attack, I will definitely give this a shot. Thanks.

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Frodo lives!

[kcbob]

Sorry for the double post but on a whim I just checked my post count and it was 666.

I had to do something about that!

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Frodo lives!
[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited November 09, 2000).]

[ColdWizard]

a coordinated attack using nukes and cruise missiles on defensive strong points along with engineers to fix rails with howies for city attack is exceptionally hard to stop. i remember the first time this happened to me in mp. me and my opponent were evenly matched in terms of cities and units. i was behind in tech but quickly caught up in the details below. he attacked first with howies and mech inf to try to hold the cities he took. i had expected such an action and counter attacked with my own howies and mech inf. we battled on in this manner with little net result (he took some of my cities, i'd take mine back plus some of his, he'd then take his back and some of mine, repeat...). we'd use cruise missiles on occasion. he was able to build nukes first but i took the needed tech the next turn, and neither of us had sdi. we eventually nuked the cities we had trouble taking with howies, and used the howies to blast other cities. we both tried to cut rail at various points, but a 2 stack of settlers just made instant rail. we battled on in this manner for about 6 hours or so until we called it a morning (we'd played all night ). he was very gradually winning at the end.

basically my point is that cutting rail won't work unless you have a wall of defensive terrain between you and your enemy. plus cutting rail hinders your own attacks.

[Dr_Strangelove]

I have a good idea. When you have your frontier properly limited build a defensive line of fortresses and then terraform the land outwards by two squares into hills. Any attacking armies are halted by the hill barrier and if your enemies try and build roads on the hills then pillage them with helicopters.

[ColdWizard]

that's a good one if:

1. you have time and room to do so
2. your opponent decides not to kill off your engineers

of course there's always attacks by sea....

[Bohlen]

quote: Originally posted by Dr_Strangelove on 11-09-2000 02:03 PM I have a good idea. When you have your frontier properly limited build a defensive line of fortresses and then terraform the land outwards by two squares into hills. Any attacking armies are halted by the hill barrier and if your enemies try and build roads on the hills then pillage them with helicopters.

I had a game like this last month against the AI. Lately, I've been trying to set up a good enough defense in order to keep the AI from stealing late techs and just to have fun defending my borders. My border was just like this, except with hill AND mountain terrain. It worked for a while. Then my closest AI neighbor got Advanced Flight and toasted some of those forts which were behind a line of hill and mountain terrain.

Don't forget the power of flight.

[Mercantile]

the only way to prevent howies would be from across the ocean, made easier by magellans of course. Long distances favour the defender short water gives the attacker the advantage as he can blast with sea and air units and then land those howies Of course, some bad luck in the war can also even these results out

[drake]

If you have the resources...build your main line straight through a mountain range......On mountain peaks incrementally create forts and stuff them chock full of mech infantry.....mech infantry are very cheap for you but very difficult to unseat from such a defense for your enemy, even with howitzers.....everything depends on the terrain in the end....

point is: If you build a nice fat, easy trip to your country you might as well put out a goddam welcome mat.....in a hostile world railroads are better for dometic use......in a friendly game where trade is prominent between civs, build away.......



***We need more pics to help describe strategy! I am a visual person and I have a hard time explaining and understanding a lot of the strategies discussed here.....I would love to help people try and diagram their ideas if they are not able to.....it would bring a little life to some of these strategies*****

[ColdWizard]

quote: Originally posted by drake on 11-09-2000 03:21 PM If you have the resources...build your main line straight through a mountain range......On mountain peaks incrementally create forts and stuff them chock full of mech infantry.....mech infantry are very cheap for you but very difficult to unseat from such a defense for your enemy, even with howitzers.....everything depends on the terrain in the end....

just nuke 'em

[drake]

I am more of a perfectionist than anything and I look down upon the use of nukes......of course that has nothing to do with what my enemy does though......does it.....you're right CW.....to a point

[ColdWizard]

if a nuke will clear out a sticky defensive spot, i'll use it. i always have plenty of engineers to clean up afterwards

[Mercantile]

drake , i love it Graphs, damm i can't even post a url Still love the diagram, one should have intermitten forts where the rail begins especiall if in advantageous terrain.

ColdWizard is a true American Though this is deemed extremely viable even in the hands of peacefull Mercantilians like myself
[This message has been edited by Mercantile (edited November 09, 2000).]

[drake]

to continue my statement.....to a point........

Once the first nuke is launched in a game, there can be no turning back. An arms race must begin, even for peace loving mercantilians. This is a very bad thing for everyone.....it makes everyone paranoid and they have to change their strategy because of the aggressor. If used enough (in combination with pre-existing pollution), global warming is going to happen sooner than later. This is also very bad for the world. So in my mind, if you're playing a MP game with several people, I see the use of nukes as a selfish act. That is why I would come up with a different solution...........but thats just me

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I get up around seven
Get outta bed around nine
And I don't worry about nothin' no
Cause worryin's a waste of my...time

[ColdWizard]

i was merely bringing up that there was a way to punch through mech inf on mountains.

i'd use it against the ai, but in mp games, i'm nearly always defender rather than an agressor and unlikely to use nukes unless attacked.