OCC Fortnight #9: Discussion, Logs etc...

[Smash]

http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ.htm

[vik]

outer,

I'll try to answer your questions, but smash's link to paul's guide is a great start...

Most here go for the fastest time. Scoring high is fun sometimes but generally everyone goes for time. That is why you see people selling off their lab/university/library upon discovery of fusion power -- really don't need more techs unless you want to go for a useful tech for something to build after the launch, like spies, solar plants, or mech infantry. I'm usually hurting for cash, so I sell them off.

As far as wonders go, I believe you help yourself more buy building caravans for the end game rather than extra wonders. This is based on the assumption that prestige and score do not matter much. Some games required Marco's or the Lighthouse for contact and/or trireme exploration, and some people build the UN if it's available after launch.

I think you are absolutely correct on when you should research flight. If I'm pushing a lot of beakers, though (like in OCC#9), it might by wise to go for it immediately after computers, and try to discover nuclear fission/power/laser/etc. while you are building your spaceship.

I grow my cities to the maximum size allowed by double irrigation. The final population size will come for me after I make all my terrain improvements for shields and arrows (i.e., mining wheat to silk, turning river squares into forests or hills, etc.). Based on your experience, though, I will now halt all city sizes at 36. For this OCC, I got to max my city at 32, but then had to change a bunch of plains/grassland squares to forest to get to 80 shields. Over time, this dropped my population down to like 27 or so, because a lot of them starved. But for awhile, those 12 extra citizens really helped out on discoveries, and later on taxes.



[This message has been edited by vik (edited May 24, 2000).]

[Dusty]

WOOOO! Success! Finally I managed to win an OCC fortnight game. But I'm in last place of course. I have a few questions though...

It was between Copernicus and Newton's that I started fall way behind. How do you guys get techs so fast during this period? Is is through giving techs to the other AIs? I tried that as much as I could, but I never seemed to get a decrease in the # of turns until the next tech. Do you have to give all your techs to all the other civs for this to work? Or just your most advanced?

I'm also curious about how people developed their city. After my WLTPD, before refrigeration, I changed the wheat squares to silk, and changed five river squares to forests. The result is that I had a size 24 city (with 3 Engineers). Should I have left some of the wheat alone, to get more scientists? Or should I have grown my city to it's max size, and starved it when I changed the terrain?

Anyway, here's my log:

OCC, Fortnight 9, 2.42

Summary:

AC: 1767 AD

Wonders:
Collosus 2300 BC
Cope’s 400 BC
Shake’s 225 BC
Sir ike’s 420 AD
Darwin’s 780 AD
Apollo 1520 AD

Governments:
Monarchy 3050 BC
Republic 725 BC
Democracy 60 AD

Trade Routes
1 650 BC
2 575 BC
3 525 BC

size 12 575 BC
size 20 220 AD
size 27 360 AD

Trade 1550 BC
Construction 975 BC
Sanitation 425 BC
Refrigeration 680 AD
Automobile 1020 AD
Computers 1260 AD
Space Flight 1510 AD

-4000 Horsemen (hut)
Karakorum founded.
I think I'll wait til monarchy to talk to the AI, as I don't want too many techs to delay my progress.
-3800 Warrior
I've changed my mind, I'm gonna talk to em:
Russians: Peace. They refuse alliance, I refuse to take warrior code now.
Babylonians: Peace, no alliance.
Vikings. Peace. Again I refuse warrior code.
Spanish: Peace. Alliance.
Americans: I take alphabet, they still have writing and masonry. Alliance.
Greeks: Peace, they refuse alliance.
-3650 Warrior.
Begin Colussus.
-3450 Code of Laws.
Size 2.
-3200 What the hey! Road on the antarctic?
-3100 Monarchy. Begin Revolution.
Writing, Masonry from americans.
Horseback riding, warrior code from russians.
Vikings refuse alliance.
Spanish refuse to give gift.
Alliance with Greeks, no gift.
-3050 Switch to Monarchy.
Feudalism (hut)
-3000 50 gold (hut)
Horde of 1 barbarian (hut). Horseman kills the barbarian.
-2850 Polytheism (hut)
-2800 Russians refuse to trade, and brush me off before I can gift them.
Babylonains: Alliance, they refuse to give me a gift.
Vikings refuse tribute.
Spanish refuse gift.
Americans refuse gift.
-2700 Size 3.
-2650 50 gold (hut)
NONE Archers (hut)
-2500 Build NONE Settler into my city. Size 4.
NONE ELephants (hut)
-2400 50 gold (Babylonians)
50 gold (Americans)
Greeks refuse gift.
-2300 Colussus.
-2250 50 gold (hut)
-2200 Size 5
-2150 Temple.
-2100 Currency.
Russians Refuse tribute.
50 tribute from Vikings.
-2050 25 gift from Babylonians
Americans, Spanish, Greeks refuse gift.
-2000 50 gold (hut)
NONE ELephants (hut)
-1950 Horde of 1 Barbarian (hut) Horseman killed barbarian.
Library.
-1900 Iron Working (hut)
Horde of 1 barbarian (hut), Horseman killed barbarian.
-1850 50 gold (hut)
-1750 Marketplace.
-1700 NONE Legion (hut)
NONE Chariot (hut)
-1600 NONE Settlers (hut), very, very far away.
-1550 Trade. Switch from elephant to caravan.
50 gold from russians.
50 gold from Babylonains.
The Wheel, 50 gold from Vikings.
Spanish refuse gift.
50 gold from Americans.
50 gold from Greeks.
-1500 Dye Caravan.
NONE Chariot (hut)
-1400 Spanish develop Chivalry.
-1350 Hide Caravan.
-1200 Silk Caravan.
-1150 NONE Knights. (hut)
-1050 Americans develo construction.
Hide Caravan.
-1000 Spanish aquire literacy.
-975 Mysticsm.
50 tribute from Russians.
50 gold from babylonians.
Construction, 25 gold from Americans.
100 gold, chivalry, literacy from spanish.
Alliance, 50 gold from Vikings.
50 gold from greeks.
NONE Knights (hut)
Map Making (finally!) (hut)
-950 Trireme.
I gave Russians map making, but then they went away.
Same with babylonains, I'll just have to wait a bit before trading
maps.
Vikings at war with babylonains.
-900 NONE Knights (hut)
-875 Civil disorder cause I wasn't watching city growth.
Philosophy (hut)
Share maps with Russians.
50 gold with babylonains, but I forgot to share maps,
break alliance with vikings.
Gave vikings map making, then they left.
Spanish, share maps.
Share maps, 25 gold from americans.
Share maps with greeks.
Engineering (hut)
NONE Settlers and a bunch of other units returned home for breaking
with viking alliance, even though they weren't near the vikings.
-825 Republic.
Begin Revolution.
-800 Colusseum.
-775 NONE Legion (hut)
Banking (hut)
Medicine (hut)
-750 Horde of 1 barbarian released. Barbarian killed by elephant.
-725 Switch to republic, begin WLTCD.Size 7.
-700 Disband horsemen to help build caravan.
-675 Coal caravan.
Legion releases horde of 1 barbarians.
Disband warrior to help build caravan.
-650 Barbarian horseman killed attacking legion.
Dye caravan arrives in Athens, 360 gold.
Mathematics (hut)
-625 Hides Caravan.
Disband warrior to help build caravan.
Knight unleashes horde of barbarians. Kills 1 horsemen.
-600 Caravan.
Knight destroyed by barbarians.
NONE Knights (hut)
-575 End WLTCD size 12.
Hides caravan arrives in Athens, 210 gold.
-550 50 gold (hut)
Astronomy.
Sell Colluseum.
-525 NONE Legion (hut)
Caravan.
Silk Caravan arrives in New York, 194 gold.
NONE Legion (hut)
-500 Caravan.
-475 Caravan.
Share maps with Vikings. THey refuse alliance.
-450 Caravan.
Hides caravan arrives in washington, 432 gold.
Begin COpernicus.
-425 Sanitation.
Horsemen releases barbarians.
NONE Knight (hut)
-400 Copernicus.
Invention (hut)
-375 Caravan
-350 Horde of barbarians (hut)
Bridge Building/seafairing from russians.
Caravan.
Seafairing, Bridge Building from Russians. They refuse alliance.
-325 Caravan.
50 gold (hut)
-300 Russians: Alliance, no gift.
Babylonians: 50 gold.
Spanish: 100 gold.
Americans: nada.
Greeks: 100 gold.
Caravan
-275 Caravan.
-250 Caravan
University.
Begin Shakespears.
NONE Legion (hut)
Horde of barbarians (hut). Chariot kills barbarians.
-225 Shakespeare's.
50 gold (hut)
Sell temple.
-150 Built university.
-100 NONE Legion (hut)
-75 Coal caravan arrives in Athens 131 gold.
-25 Sewer System.
50 gold (hut)
1 Democracy. Begin Revolution.
Legion unleashes horde of barbarians.
40 Knight destroyed.
60 Switch to democracy.
Begin WLTPD Size 12.
100 gold from russians.
50 gold from Babylonians.
200 gold from Spanish.
100 gold from Americans.
25 gold from greeks.
80 Bank.
120 Caravan.
Babylonians and viking sign peace treaty.
Babylonians get Monotheism from Vikings.
Get Monotheism from vikings. Alliance.
140 25 gold (hut)
160 Caravan.
180 Ecconomics.
200 Americans develop gun powder.
Caravan.
50 gold (hut)
NONE Crusaders (hut)
Americans: 50 gold and Gun Powder.
220 Babylonians Develop Theory of Gravity, give it to vikings.
Russians refuse gift.
100 gold Babylonains.
Vikings refuse gift.
100 gold Spanish
Greeks refuse gift.
240 Caravan.
100 gold (hut) (210 to rush buy carvan, 46 after 15 shields)
260 Caravan.
Horde of Barbarians.
280 Elephant destroyed.
300 Caravan.
Chemistry.
50 gold (hut)
320 50 gold (hut)
340 Caravan.
360 Caravan.
End WLTPD, size 27.
380 Caravan.
400 Caravan.
Explosives.
Begin INC.
420 Complete INC.
440 Metallurgy.
Greeks Develop Navigation.
Navigation from Greeks.
100 gold Vikings.
350 gold from Greeks.
350 gold from Russians.
50 gold from Babylonians.
50 gold from Spanish.
300 gold from Americans.
460 Engineers.
480 Engineers.
500 Engineers.
Physics.
520
540
560 Stock Exchange
Magnetism.
600 Caravan
Vikingsa develop Leadership
Disband horsemen.
620 Electricity
Caravan.
660 Caravan.
680 Refrigeration
Silk Caravan arrives in New York, 492 gold.
700 Caravan.
720 Steam Engine
Supermarket.
Dye Caravan arrives in Washington, 358 gold.
740 Caravan.
Disband Legion
760 Caravan.
Railroad. Begin Darwins.
Leadership from Americans.
780 Darwins.
Industrialization
The Corporation.
Disband legion.
800 Freight.
Spanish develop conscription.
820 Refining.
840 Freight.
860 Transport.
880 COmbustion.
Freight.
920 Freight.
960 Steel
Freight.
1000 Freight.
1020 Automobile.
Freight.
Disband freight.
Oil Freight arrives in New York, 188 gold.
Gold Freight arrives in Washington, 200 gold.
1040 Superhighways
Coal Freight arrives in Washington, 391 gold.
Spanish. Conscription. 100 gold.
Greeks: 250 gold
Russians: 250 gold.
1060 Electronics.
1080 Freight.
1100 Tactics
Freight.
1120 Freight.
1140 Machine Tools
Freight.
1160 Freight
1180 Miniturization.
1200 Factory.
1220 Mass Production.
1240 Hydro Plant.
1260 Computers.
Gold Freight arrives in New York, 390 gold.
Oil Freight arrives in New York, 390 gold.
Silk Freight arrives in Washington, 1200 gold.
1280 Mobile Warfare.
Research Lab.
1320 Robotics.
1340 Manufacturing Plant.
1360 Flight.
Freight.
1380 Freight.
1400 Radio
Freight.
1420 Freight.
1440 Disband Engineers
Advanced Flight.
1460 Freight.
1480 Rocketry.
Freight.
Begin Seti with intention of switching to apollo.
1510 Space Flight. Switch to Apollo.
1520 Apollo.
Plastics.
1570 Atomic Theory.
1600 Nuclear Fission.
1630 Nuclear Power
1660 Laser
1670 Size 25.
1690 Super Conductor.
1730 Fusion Power.
1752 Launch. Arrival 1767.
<Built a bunch of armor>
1767 MSS Dusty Arives on Alpha Centauri, 38% Dusty the Cruel.

----
Dusty
[This message has been edited by Dusty (edited May 25, 2000).]

[Oldman]

Nice one Dusty!!!! It's amazing how close we all were, it looks like a span of 220 years, but cause of the game year, the turns flick past 10 years at a time!!!!

So you were only 2 turns behind Huey, 3 behind me!!! and 21 off Paul, who played the least turns even though Tom and Vik beat him to AC on date!!

Guys, So what about this mid section between the observatory and newtons?? how do you guys do that bit so quickly? research wise?

Paul, Just for you info - table 9 is called table 8 still?!!?
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited May 25, 2000).]

[SilverDragon]

I finished OCC 9 today. I just will post a summary because my full log would take too long to post. I was ahead of everybody at the beginning, but somehow fell way behind after 1 AD.

AC: 1747 AD

Wonders:
Colossus 2650 BC
Cope’s 500 BC
Shake’s 250 BC
Sir ike’s 400 AD
Darwin’s 700 AD
Apollo 1480 AD

Governments:
Monarchy 2300 BC
Republic 700 BC
Democracy 80 AD

Trade Routes
1 1 AD
2 20 AD
3 40 AD

size 12 575 BC
size 21 220 AD
size 30 300 AD

Trade 2000 BC
Construction 1550 BC
Sanitation 750 BC
Refrigeration 800 AD
Automobile 600 AD
Computers 1280 AD
Space Flight 1460 AD

What did I do wrong? Were my trade routes too late? Please tell me.

[Tom DeMille]

SilverDragon, first off, 1747 is a pretty good result, so you didn't do very much wrong!

Looking at your highlights, what I see is that you skipped Refrigeration until after Automobile. But you managed to get up to size 30 much before that. I suspect that you left the wheats alone instead of changing them to silk.

If you had changed the wheats to silk and gone straight for Refrigeration, you would have still been able to get up to size 30 pretty early on, with a lot more trade output.

And you're right about the trade routes. Get those caravans off as soon as possible; especially in this game, where they had to travel quite a distance.

[Bohlen]

Hi, OCC gang. Well, after putting it off for way too long, I finally took at shot at an old OCC map. Three of them actually. I failed miserably at OCC #4, was beaten to AC in OCC #8, and OCC #9 is currently being played and things look pretty good so far.

When will OCC #10 be available? You can count me in when it is, because now I'm hooked. I have a lot of leaning to do, but can't wait to give it a shot.

------------------
Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance

[Tom DeMille]

The games come out every 2 weeks, so OCC 10 will be ~ this Wednesday.

[Scouse Gits]

Well I finally got round to it - the one OCC I had not yet completed and it was the most lucky game ever - I admit to it being a sort of second attempt - way back when this came out I started and got as far as discovering the M25 before I had to stop I guess about 6 turns or so - I couldn't find that effort so had to start from scratch - my best game ever wish I had done it at the time...

========================

OCC#9 - v2.42 - deity

Monarchy -2450
Republic -725
Democracy -225

Colossus -2450
Copernicus -950
Shakespeare -125
Newton 80
Darwin 400
Apollo 1080

AC 1516

Trade#1 -750
Trade#2 -575
Trade#3 -525

Size 12 -525
Size 21 60

---------------------

4000 alliances with all other civs: Horse Riding + Alphabet; hut: None Horseman
3800 hut: 25g
3650 hut: 50g
3600 hut: 50g
3300 Code of Laws; hut: Polytheism; hut: None Elephant
3200 hut: 50g
3050 hut: Map Making
2900 hut: 50g
2800 hut: 50g
2700 hut: None Elephant
2650 hut: 25g
2600 hut: None Horseman
2500 Monarchy; Revolution; allies: 150g, Mysticism, Masonry, Iron working, Currency, Writing; hut: 50g; hut: 50g
2450 MONARCHY; Colossus; hut: None Legion; hut: None Legion
2400 hut: CONSTRUCTION
2350 Library; hut: Barbarian Horse, despatched; hut: 25g; hut: TRADE
2300 allies: 50g (cheapskates!)
2250 hut: None Elephant
2200 hut: Barbarian Horse, despatched; hut: 25g; hut: The Wheel
2150 allies: Pottery + 125g
2050 hut: 100g; allies: 75g
2000 hut: Barbarian Horse, despatched
1950 hut: 50g
1900 hut: Bridge Building; allies: 125g
1850 hut: None Legion
1750 hut: Engineering; allies: short on patience!
1700 hut: Seafaring
1600 hut: Mathematics; hut: 25g; allies: 100g; Barbarian Legions approaching!
1550 Horseman & Diplomat foil Barbarian attack
1500 hut: None Elephant
1450 hut: 50g; allies: 50g
1350 Greeks: Astronomy; hut: Navigation
1250 allies: 100g
1150 allies: 25g & sympathy
1050 allies: 125g
0975 Literacy; allies: 75g
0950 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY
0900 hut: 100g; allies: 50g
0825 allies: 100g
0750 Temple; hut: 50g; DYE TO NEW YORK: 122g; allies: 150g
0725 Philosophy -> The Republic; Revolution; REPUBLIC; hut: Banking; hut: The University; Size 4
0700 Colosseum; hut: Theory of Gravity
0675 allies: 75g
0650 hut: 2 Barbarian Horsemen + 1 Legion: kill Elephant
0600 Aqueduct; allies: Feudalism + 25g
0575 SILK TO BOSTON: 153g
0550 Bank; hut: 50g; Horseman killed by Barbarian Legion
0525 WLCD stops @ 12; Medicine; HIDES TO WASHINGTON: 260g; hut: 50g; Horseman loses to Barbarian Legion; allies: 125g
0500 University
0450 Sanitation; allies: 50g
0400 Sewer System; Size 13
0375 allies: 50g
0275 allies: 175g
0250 Democracy; Revolution
0225 DEMOCRACY established; hut: None Legion
0175 allies: 125g
0150 Sell Colosseum
0125 Gunpowder; SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE; WLPD starts @ 13
0100 hut: 50g
0075 allies: 250g
0050 hut: None Elephant
0025 Chemistry
----------
AD01 hut: None Elephant
0020 allies: 250g
0040 hut: 50g
0060 Size 21
0080 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE; WLPD stops @ 22; Hides to Wahington: 350g
0100 Metallurgy; allies: 50g
0140 hut: Barbarian Knight (oops!): Legion dies
0160 hut: 50g
0180 Magnetism; allies: 50g
0200 hut: None Musketeer; Rebellion 5 Elephants & 6 Archers near Liverkorum!!
0260 REFRIGERATION; allies: 75g
0300 Steam Engine; Supermarket; Size 22; Hides to Kiev (undemanded): 673g
0320 allies: 75g
0340 RailRoad; Vikings: Economics & 50g
0380 Industrialisation
0400 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> The Corporation, Refining
0440 Steel
0460 allies: 150g
0480 Combustion
0500 allies: 100g
0520 AUTOMOBILE; allies: 175g
0540 Superhighways
0560 Electronics
0600 Mass Production; allies: 225g
0640 Chivalry; Americans: Conscription + 250g; Greeks: 50g
0680 Leadership
0720 Machine Tools
0740 Coal to Athens: 322g; allies: 750g
0760 Machine Tools; Size 23 (natural growth);
0800 Miniaturisation
0820 Offshore Platform; Dye to Athens: 630g; Note: I am now supreme!
0840 COMPUTERS
0880 Mobile Warfare; WLPD stops @ 26
0900 Robotics;
0920 Guerilla Uprising!!!!! (SH*T); Power Plant; Flight;
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Guerillas rise on peninsula to West of city and one Rifleman advances towards city the remainder stay where they started - Diplomat reaches outlying Rifleman with one third of a movement left and buys him - Rifleman attacks stack successfully - 22 units destroyed!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++ HOSANNA!
0960 Radio;
0980 Babylonians: Atomic Theory
1000 Advanced Flight; Oil to Kiev: 702g
1020 Rocketry
1040 WLPD stops @ 28
1060 SPACE FLIGHT
1080 APOLLO PROGRAM
1100 Plastics
1140 Nuclear Fission; Gold to Athens: 242g - disapointing - can't make a 1 turn advance
1180 Nuclear Power
1220 The Laser
1260 Superconductor
1300 Fusion Power
1340 Stealth
1400 Communism - the beaker cost of this shot up to 2700 after the first turn
++++++++++++
Wierd - Now researching Guerilla Warfare - cost 1976 beakers before turns 1 and 2 of research now at beginning of turn three (when it should have been mine) the cost is 2812!!!!!!! What is going on please? Has anyone else seen this behaviour?
++++++++++++
1460 Guerilla Warfare
1480 LAUNCH eta 1516 (15-1-1-1-1-1)
1481 Airport
1482 Labour Union; Stealth Fighter
1485 Espionage; Barracks
1489 Communism established
1494 Combined Arms
1498 Amphibious Warfare
etc - alliances all held
1516 landed AC

Hard work - seemed a lot longer than I guess it reall was ...



------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Tom DeMille]

Wow, 22 barbarians destroyed by one of their own. That diplomat must have been very pursuasive.

[Oldman]

Nice going Scouse!!!!! great landing date!! So, have you been getting advice off of SG(3)?!?!?!?!

[SCG]

That little road on the south pole went on forever. I went in thinking I had found another civ and then saw it wasn't so I sent a horsie in both directions, and waited for them to meet. and waited. and waited. Finally i got the idea and expanded that map window in the upper right and found out why I made alliances with all 7 civs before any of them even founded a city (surprising since i was purple), and kept all 7 the entire game! Admittedly i kind of ignored them after my last big tech dump in 600BC, and even refused every AD trade (they wanted to give me stuff like monotheism) The last contack I had with any of them was pre-spaceflight. I just kept getting 2 turn techs, and even 4 consecutive 1 turn techs between computers and flight so i didn't want to mess with that. Never did build Darwin's voyage. I'm not sure, if it would have saved me or cost me turns. I had a healthy treasury towards the end so didn't need my 10 caravan/freights for the modules, but then i don't know if i would have been able to pull through the lean years right at the start of space flight. Of course the one thing that would have saved me more turns than anything would have been not having both wheat pillaged by barbarians early BC. That was a lot of settler work, along with centuries of potential specialists lost. I never did get all my land finished, even with 3 engineers and a settler going full throttle late game, and that last engineer cost me 2 specialists. Threre's always checks and balances though, but I'm sure I could have gotten a 1500's landing taking back that 1 barb uprising I also had to force myself to start my 3 trade routes, and I know I could have done it sooner. I kept wanting to save up my caravans for wonders because I had _so_ many techs from the millians of huts out there, and having dumped all of my techs up to medicine on the AI, I was positive i was going to have a hard time building what I wanted. Unfounded worries. Oh, and there are 2 reasons why I am going in reverse order OCC-wise. One is because I read a few of the early threads (mid-single digit OCC) to see what they were all about and I'm giving myself time to forget anything that I could possibly remember. Its worked so far, cause while I read the lead-in posts for this OCC, I couldn't for the life of me remember a thing about it. And the second reason is as I'm getting more experienced at OCC, I get to compare it against people when they were less experienced at it Well, other than Scouse here, and look when he wound up landing Oooh, I beat him at 1 thing - my bribed artillery killed 51 (yes, 51) barb units in one blow


To the game

diety, 2.42
AC: 1626 AD

monarchy: -2650
republic: -1850
democracy: 60

colossus: -2300
copes: -400
shakes: -750
newton: 80
darwin: ----
Apollo: 1280

trade: -900, -425, -425

size 12: -725
size 21: -275


wow, spelled out explicitly that we have contact, well, lets take advantage

-4000 hut, archers, Home founded, alliance (russians), alliance (babylonians), warrior code, alliance (vikings),alliance(Spanish), alliance (Americans), alliance (greeks) thats everyone, should have contacted vikings first but o well, who knew they had extra techs
-3950 horseback riding (russians), alphabet (greeks)
-3750 hut, 25 gp
-3650 hut, 100 gp
-3500 (size 2), hey, an intercontinental roadway!
-3450 hut, iron working
-3400 hut, 50 gp (with this road I'm supreme...)
-3300 hut, code of laws, hut, currency
-3250 man this is a long road
-3200 hut, trade (come on I need Monarchy...)
-3150 hut, legion...
-3100 size 3
-3050 hut, 25 gold
-3000 hut, legion (sigh)
-2900 hut, legion (another one?), hut, wheel... (I'll never make monarchy at this rate, just go straight to republic)
-2850 writing (babylonians)
-2800 hut, Monarchy, revolt (finally), hut, yet another legion (4 now, none anywhere near home, and allied with everyone), masonry (Americans)
-2750 hut, 50 gp
-2700 hut, Feudalism
-2650 Monarchy founded, hut barb horseman (at least its different), hut Chivalry)
-2600 hut, literacy
-2500 hut, construction, hut barb horseman (again it vanishes)
-2350 size 4 tech dump, 50 gp (russians), 50 gp (babylonians), polytheism, 100 gp (vikings), spanish and greeks tire of me dumping 10-15 techs on them ,mapmaking, 50 gp (Americans)
-2300 Colossus, disband warrior, hut barb horseman (one finally attacked, vet legion)
-2250 hut (oops, Advanced tribe, retry)... another legion, no 4 legged units out there?
-2200 hut, mathematics
-2050 marketplace
-2000 hut, 50 gp, hut barb horseman
-1950 hut, AT => mystism, hut, philosophy (hey! where's my free tech?)
-1900 Republic (ah, there it is)
-1850 Republic Founded, barb leader (150)
-1800 caravan (grumble barbs pillage both wheats), hut Engineering
-1700 halt WL @ 7
-1600 hut, 50 gp, hut barb horseman (disappears)
-1550 hut Astronomy, hut, NON knight!
-1400 Aquaduct, hut, another legion, hut knight
-1350 Size 8, WL
-1300 size 9, cancel WL, hut, University
-1250 legion dies to barb crusader, hut, invention
-1150 hut, 50 gp
-1100 caravan
-1050 hut, 50 gp
-1000 caravan, barb leader (150)
-975 hut, 50 gp
-950 university
-900 caravan,hut, barb horse (killed it), silk (undemanded) to New York (84)
-850 caravan, Medicine, size 10
-825 hut, 50 gp
-800 caravan, size 11, cancel WL
-775 hut, 50 gp, sell temple
-750 Shakes
-725 size 12 cancel WL
-700 caravan, hut, AT=>50 gp, hut AT=>50 gp
-675 caravan, hut, 50 gp
-650 caravan
-625 hut, legion
-600 caravan, 150 gp (russians), 50 gp (babylonians),150 gp (vikings),100 gp (americans),100 gp (greeks)
-575 accedentally forested my city square. o well
-550 caravan
-525 Sanitation,hut, 50 gp
-500 sewer system, WL
-475 hut, (thats the 7th Samarakand...) 50 gp
-450 caravan, hmm, several civs have bridge building, but don't want to trade techs...
-425 dye (demanded, 204), hides(undemanded, 102) to Philadelphia
-400 Cope's
-375 Theory of Gravity
-350 caravan
-300 caravan, hut 25 gp
-275 Chemistry, size 21, cancel WL
-250 caravan
-200 caravan, Gunpowder, hut, 50 gp, hut, barb horseman (legion died)
-175 about to grow, should have invested in a granary
-150 caravan, size 22
-125 Explosives, WL, hut, 50 gp, killed barb knight, barb horseman
-100 Engineer
-50 caravan, Banking
-25 Bank
20 caravan, Democracy
40 hut, 50 gp
60 caravan, Democracy founded, bridge building, 250 gp (Americans)
80 Ike's, WL
120 caravan
140 seafaring
160 caravan
180 Navigation
220 Physics
240 size 28 cancel WL
260 caravan, Steam Engine, hut, 50 gp
300 caravan, railroad
340 caravan, Magnetism
380 caravan, Metalurgy
420 caravan, Electricity
460 caravan, Refrigeration
480 WL
500 Engineers, Industrialization
520 supermarket
540 Corporation
580 Steel, hut, 25 gp
620 Refining, cancel WL (30)
660 Factory, Combustion
700 Steel
740 Superhighways, Mass Production
780 Power Plant, Electronics
800 diplomat
820 Conscription
840 freight
860 Leadership
880 freight
900 Tactics
920 freight
940 Machine Tools
960 freight
980 Miniaturization
1000 Offshore Platform, hut, musketeer (heh)
1020 Computers (only 14 techs left)
1040 Research Lab, Mobile Warfare (woohoo! and still not max science!)
1060 Robotics (Hmm, real chance here, going for all the 1 round techs i can get - skipping darwins to save freight and save more money post flight), looks like flight after this
1080 Manufacturing Plant, Atomic Theory (only 10 freights and caravans - with enough gold may be enough) (1656 beaker production, 1636 for flight!!!)
1100 freight, Flight, switching to wonder - hope i'm not too soon with terraforming and mines due soon
1120 reminder settlers started mining the grassland in case #2 and #3 engineers are unable to help out on terraforming
1140 Radio (too many old NON's still hut hunting, but just found another for next turn), darn guerrilla uprisings... only 2 riflemen, but against archers and legions? (dead legion, archer next, maybe the horsie can outflank it?)
1160 hut, barb cavalry? run horsie run! (dead horsie, knight may get away)
1180 Advance Flight (woohoo, non vet archer in mountain takes out wounded rifleman!), legion, and second horsie in reserve)
1220 Rocketry, archer wend down big to second rifleman
1240 no pollution this round, can build a fort, albeit in the forested river
1260 SPACE FLIGHT!!!, and timed the wonder perfectly
1280 Apollo Program (last rifleman died against engineer, horsie untouched, though lost too many SS fodder units), disband horseman - hmm i missed 1 hut that i could have gotten to o well.
1300 struct #1, Plastics, disband wounded engineer (pollution not on production tile, so i can manage), barb leader (150)
1320 comp #1
1340 struct #2, Nuclear Fission
1360 struct #3
1380 struct #4, Nuclear Power
1400 struct #5
1420 struct #6, Laser (80 prod, 3 surplus food now, and enough science that I could celebrate up to 32 if need be..., 33 if the engineers can break long enough from pollution to finish double irrigating)
1440 #7, oops, tech time doubled
1460 #8
1480 #9, Superconductor
1500 #10 (hehe, I'm 7th most powerful, and everyone else is gunpowder/knights)
1510 #11
1520 #12, Fusion Power, 100% taxes now (still allied with all 7 civs), netting 355/turn
1530 #13
1540 #14
1550 #15, modules next
1560 mod #1
1570 mod #2
1580 mod #3
1590 comp #2 (*ponders launch*) due 1626 (WOW), with taking 10 turns for next comp, i think i'll launch
1623 side note, guerilla uprising, bribed one of the artillery and 51 units destroyed.
1626 Alpha Centari! I had forgotten that unlike Civ I, it goes year/turn after launch. This completely smashes my old record of 1833 . And the comparison table says? I'm not one of the last to land for once!

------------------
April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

[Tom DeMille]

quote: I get to compare it against people when they were less experienced at it

Hey, no fair

edit: Oh, and if you think it took forever for your horsemen to travel the length of the road, imagine how long it took me to build it in the first place.
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited August 19, 2000).]

[Ribannah]

OCC #09
Deity
MGE

These boots were made for walking!!
Good thing there was a road, some old civilization must have built it before they crossed the pole .
We counted the max population and made the decision to change the wheat into silk, which proved to be quite profitable . Even had a tech per turn, once .
40 Shields was plenty to build the spaceship .
================================================== ==============
AC: 1566

Monarchy: -3050
Republic: -2250
Democracy: -225

Colossus: -2150
Copernicus: -550
Shakespeare: -225
Newton: 240
Darwin: 700
Apollo: 1160

Trade routes: -475, -425, -225

Size 12: -1250
Size 21: 60 (size 27 in 180)
Size 36: 940

Trade: -3100
Construction: -2650
Sanitation: -150
Refrigeration: 440

Automobile: 700
Computers: 1000
Space Flight: 1140
============================================

Bronze Working
Ceremonial Burial
-4000 50(h)
KARAKORUM founded by Tamara
-3900 Warriors
-3800 Warriors
-3750 Alphabet
-3650 Archers(h), Horsemen(h), disbanded 2 Warriors
Americans: "We discovered Code of Laws"
-3600 Peace(A), traded for Code of Laws and Writing, Ally(A)
-3550 25(h)
-3500 S2, N-Chariot(h)
-3350 N-Horsemen(h)
-3300 Currency(h)
-3250 50(h), found Athens
-3150 Peace(Greeks), 3 techs->G, 50->G, no Ally , 50<-G
Monarchy(h) , Peace(Russians), traded for Horseback Riding,
6 techs->R, no Ally , 50<-R
Peace(Babylonians), traded for Pottery, 5 techs->B, no Ally or tribute
Peace(Vikings), traded for Warrior Code, 7 techs->V, no Ally or tribute
Peace(Spanish), 9 techs->S, no Ally or tribute
traded for Masonry(A), 3 techs->A, no gift
-3100 Trade(h), Revolution
-3050 MONARCHY, Mysticism(h)
-3000 S3
-2950 The Wheel(h), Barb Horsemen(h) - killed
-2800 N-Horsemen(h), Barb Chariot
-2750 N-Chariot(h), 1 tech->A,B,G,R,V, 2 techs->S
-2700 S4, Barb Leader (150)
-2650 50(h), Construction(h)
-2600 Engineering(h), N-Horsemen(h), Barb Horsemen
-2550 50(h)
-2500 25(h), 4 techs->R, no Ally or tribute
4 techs->B, no Ally, 25<-B
4 techs->V, no Ally, 25<-B
3 techs->S, traded for Feudalism
4 techs->G, no Ally or tribute
-2400 found St Petersburg
-2350 50(h), Barb Chariot, traded for Literacy(B), 50<-B
4 techs->A, 50<-A
-2300 traded for The Republic(A), 1 tech->A, 25<-A , Revolution
-2250 REPUBLIC, S5, di Archers, N-Horsemen(h), Invention(h)
Barbs pillage wheat
-2200 25(h), N-Archers(h), Barb Chariot, di Horsemen
-2150 COLOSSUS, Barb Chariot
-2100 N-Horsemen(h), 25(h), 50(h)
-2050 Library, 50(h)
-2000 7 techs->R, 2 techs->B, 4 techs->V, 2 techs->S
(all except Invention), no Allies
4 techs->G, Ally(G), no gift
-1950 Temple, Barb Horsemen, 3x50(h)
-1900 25(h)
-1850 Marketplace
-1800 We Love , 50(h)
-1750 Colosseum, Map Making, S6
-1700 S7, 25(h), Barb Horsemen
-1650 S8, 25(h)
-1600 Aquaduct, S9
-1550 S10
-1500 Gold, S11
-1450 S12, N-Chariot(h), 50(h)
-1400 Silk, We Love ends , N-Archers(h)
-1350 N-Horsemen(h)
-1300 Settlers, S11
-1250 S12, 1 tech->A, traded for Philosophy(A)
-1200 Trireme, N-Horsemen(h)
-1150 Map Making->G, Greeks end Alliance
-1100 Hides, Barb Archers, Barb Archers/Leader
-1050 Mathematics
-1000 2 techs->R, Maps(R), 3 techs->B, Maps(B), no Allies
-975 Barb Archers
-950 Hides, N-Legion, 50(h)
-900 Trireme, sold Colosseum, Barb Archers
* leader disappears for the 4th time *
-875 traded for Iron Working(A)
3 techs->V, Maps(V), no Ally
5 techs->S, Maps(S), Ally(S), no gift
3 techs->G, Maps(G), Ally(G), 50<-G
-850 50(h), N-Legion(h)
-825 Hides
-775 Hides, Wheat/r into Silk/r
-750 50(h), N-Legion(h)
-725 Hides, Astronomy, traded for Seafaring(B), 50(h), 100(h)
-700 (PYRAMIDS - Babylonians)
-675 Hides
-625 Hides
-600 Barb Legion
-575 di N-Chariot
-550 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY
-525 Barb Legion, leader disappears again
-500 Hides
-475 Medicine, Gold to Babylon (d,485)
-450 Hides
-425 University, Silk to Babylon (d,540)
-400 University
-375 Banking
-350 Bank, 50(h) (after 5xSamarkand ), Wheat/r into Silk/r
4 techs->V, Maps(V), no Ally
-325 25(h)
-300 Hides, 25(h)
-275 Economics, 2 Hides to Babylon (2x279)
-250 Hides
-225 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE, Democracy, DEMOCRACY, Barb Legion
10 techs->R, Maps(R), 6 techs->B, Maps(B), 1 tech->V
5 techs->S, Maps(S), Spanish end Alliance over gift
4 techs->A, Maps(A), no gift
5 techs->G, Maps(G), 50<-G
-200 Barb Legion/Leader
-175 Stock Exchange
-150 Sanitation, We Love , 25(h)
-125 Sewer System, S13, di Trireme
-100 S14
-75 Harbor, S15
-50 Theory of Gravity, S16, 1 tech->G, 50<-G
4 techs->V, Maps(V)
-25 Hides, S17
1 N-Horsemen(h), S18
20 Hides, Navigation, S19, 50(h), 1 tech->G, 50<-G , 3 techs->R
40 S20
60 Hides, S21, 50(h), 5 techs->S
80 Physics, S22
100 Hides, S23, 100(h)
120 S24
140 Hides, Magnetism, S25
160 S26
180 Hides, S27
200 Bridge Building, We Love ends , 5 techs->B, Maps(B)
9 techs->A, Maps(A), 200<-A
11 techs->G, Maps(G), 50<-G
220 di N-Legion, N-Chariot
(LEONARDO'S WORKSHOP - Babylonians)
240 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE, Gunpowder
260 2 Barb Legions
280 Coal, Chemistry, Barb Legion
320 Food, Explosives, 50(h), 6 techs->R, Maps(R)
6 techs->S, Maps, Ally(S), no gift
9 techs->V, Maps, 3 techs->B, Maps
3 techs->A, 50<-A , 3 techs->G, 50<-G
340 N-Musketeers(h)
360 Engineers, Metallurgy, S26
400 Engineers, Electricity, S25, 50(h)
440 Food, Refrigeration
480 Food, Steam Engine
520 Supermarket, Railroad
5 techs->V, Maps, 5 techs->S, Maps, no gift
5 techs->A, Maps, 50<-A , 5 techs->G, Maps, 50<-G
540 N-Crusaders(h), 25(h)
560 Food, Industrialization
(GREAT LIBRARY - Americans)
600 Diplomat, The Corporation, di N-Horsemen
620 Food, 100(h), Barb Cannon, di N-Horsemen
640 Food, Refining, Barb Cannon
660 We Love , Spanish end Alliance (demanded War(R))
-> several units from huts now at home
680 Steel, S26, di N-Horsemen, 4 techs->A, Maps, 100<-A
4 techs->V, Maps, no Ally
700 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Combustion, Automobile, S27, di Trireme
720 Electronics, S28, di N-Horsemen
740 Factory, S29, di N-Horsemen, Barb Cannon
760 Hydroplant, Mass Production, S30, di N-Horsemen
2 techs->A, traded for Chivalry(B), 11 techs->B, no Ally
14 techs->R, Maps, Ally(R) even though we refused War(S) ,
400<-R :cool; * new record for Rib!! * 8 techs->S, Maps
780 Mass Transit, S31, di N-Legion
800 Oil, Leadership, S32, di Settlers
820 Food, S33, di N-Archers
840 Food, Conscription, S34, di N-Archers
(MARCO POLO'S EMBASSY - Babylonians)
860 Food, We Love ends , di N-Chariot
880 Food, Tactics, di Engineers -> 40(+1) shields, no pollution
12 techs->G, Maps, 50<-G
* next tech costs 1456, we make 1416 *
6 techs->A, Maps, 50<-A , 8 techs->V, Maps
900 Food, We Love , di Engineers
920 Transort, Machine Tools, S35, di N-Horsemen
6 techs->R, 100<-R
940 Food, di N-Horsemen, S36
960 Food, Miniaturization, We Love ends , di N-Horsemen
980 Food, di N-Horsemen, sold Sewer System
1000 Food, Computers, di N-Horsemen, sold Aquaduct
1020 Research Lab, Flight
1040 Radio , Oil to New York (225)
1060 Advanced Flight
1100 Rocketry
1140 Space Flight, sold Temple
(STATUE OF LIBERTY - Babylonians)
1160 APOLLO PROGRAM
* we have 40 shields, 9 freigt, 6 units, 3591 gold *
1180 SSS, Plastics
1200 SSS
1220 SSS, Atomic Theory
1240 SSS
1260 SSS, Nuclear Fission
1280 SSS
1300 SSS, Nuclear Power
(WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE - Americans)
1320 SSS
1340 SSS, The Laser
1360 SSS
1380 SSS, Superconductor
* Barb horde (several dozens of Artillery and Riflemen) *
1400 SSS
1420 SSS, Fusion Power, Barb Riflemen
1440 SSS, Bribed Barb Artillery, di Artillery
1460 SSS, Br Barb A,R, Barb A,R, di A
1480 SSC, Br Barb A, di A
1500 SSC, Br Barb R, Barb R
1510 SSM, Br Barb A, di N-Horsemen
1520 SSM, Communism, di N-Crusaders, Barb A,R
1530 SSM, LAUNCH the 15-1-1-1-1-1 "TAMARA", Barb A,R

1531 Espionage, Barb A,R
1532 Barb A
1533 Recycling, Barb A
1534 di Diplomat, Barb A
1535 HANGING GARDENS , Environmentalism, Barb A, di R, sold Hydroplant
1536 Solar Plant, di N-Settlers
1537 Offshore Platform, Genetic Engineering, Barb A, Barb Leader (150)
1539 Amphibious Warfare
1540 Another Barb Horde
1541 Guerilla Warfare
1542 MAGELLAN'S EXPEDITION, Barb R
1543 Labor Union, Barb A, traded for Mobile Warfare (R), 200<-R
traded for Monotheism and Polytheism (B), 2 Barb R
1544 Barb A
1545 Robotics, Barb Leader (150)
1546 Barb A
1547 Combined Arms, Barb A
1548 di N-Musketeers, Greeks end Alliance (we refuse war(B))
1549 EIFFEL TOWER, Stealth
1551 Manufacturing Plant
1552 Fundamentalism
1555 ORACLE, Theology, 900<-R for War(B)
1558 ADAM SMITH'S TRADING CO.
1559 (SETI PROGRAM - Babylonians)
1560 LIGHTHOUSE
1562 GREAT WALL
1564 SUN TZU'S WAR ACADEMY, di Artillery
1565 JS BACH'S CATHEDRAL

1566 The "TAMARA" lands on ALPHA CENTAURI

Score: 461 (59%)

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

[Richard Bruns]

I've been trying for some time now to win an OCC game, and I finally was able to do it this scenario. Ironically, my success came from avoiding contact with the AI. I made alliances early, and then avoided contact. Thus I was able to stay peaceful for most of the game and never had to give away money or techs.

My landing date in 1894 was rather unimpressive, but since I didn't give the AI anything after the early game that were never able to threaten me. By surrounding my city with freights, I was able to keep those pesky Greek diplomats at bay, and after I launched my ship I was only attacked by three American cruisers. They might have hurt me if I hadn't built that coastal fortress, but the attack was ineffective. Next turn I used the UN to force peace, and sailed happily to Alpha Centauri.

I had no problem getting 80 shields; I converted all non-shield grassland on the river to forests. I ended up with production of over 90, which allowed me to support a good military force. To make up for the food loss from this conversion, I kept the wheat. After superhighways, I was researching a tech every two turns.

I learned something I didn't know before: If you build a road on a rivered forest, it adds a trade arrow. This meant that after superhighways and before flight, my railroaded, rivered forests were producing one food, three shields, and six trade. That's better than most specials.

I've concluded that rivers are more important than specials. In my random map attempts, I'll start settling in the middle of river systems even if it means I only get a couple specials.

I'd like to thank Paul for keeping up such a helpful web page.