OCC Fortnight Competition #8: Discussion, Logs, & Advice

[Tom DeMille]

Fun game. I made a bit of a hash of my caravans mid game (sending them to cities that were too near and getting very little one time cash/science).

I also got a bit too wild in my city growth. I grew to size 28 and then counted shield squares. I realized to my horror that to get 80 production, I would need to forest so many squares that my food would go into deficit by 10-12, enough to kill off my engineers much too early. I managed to get out of the problem by building another engineer (reducing pop to 27), and then converting the river squares to hills instead of forest. I ended up with a food deficit of 4, not nearly as bad.

With the gold mountain, after growing to size 4, I had 0 food surplus. I was able to set my luxuries to 20% (10% once the marketplace was built) and celebrate WLTKDs until I discovered republic. It increased my science output a good 30-50%.

The English built Hanging Garden, and were thereby able to build a bunch of cities. They had quite a thriving empire, and were outpacing me in spaceship component production. Luckily they didn't discover Superconductor, so their 38-8-8-8-0-0-0 spaceship stayed on the ground.

v242, Diety

going North

3850BC - Writing (hut)
3700BC - found Cardiff (whale, silk, buffalo, gold)
3500BC - built warrior
3450BC - meet Aztecs, peace, share maps
3300BC - built warrior
2950BC - archers - supported (hut)
Aztecs - Alliance, share maps
2650BC - archers NONE (hut)
2400BC - Ceremonial Burial (Aztecs)
Chinese - Alliance, share maps, 50 gold
2150BC - Monarchy, revolution
Aztecs - Masonry
Chinese - Pottery
2050BC - switched to Monarchy
Aztecs - Mysticism, 50 gold
2000BC - horsemen NONE (hut)
English - The Wheel, Horseback Riding, Warrior Code, peace
1900BC - 25 gold (Chinese)
1850BC - 50 gold (Aztecs)
1800BC - built Colossus, Currency (hut)
1750BC - 100 gold (hut)
1700BC - built Library
1550BC - Chinese civ destroyed by English
1400BC - peace with Zulus, share maps
1250BC - begin WLTKD (pop is 4)
1150BC - 25 gold (Aztecs)
1050BC - 50 gold (hut)
1000BC - Trade, horsemen NONE (hut)
975BC - built copper caravan
Zulus - alliance, 50 gold
925BC - Construction (hut), built beads caravan
English - Iron Working
Aztecs - 25 gold
900BC - horsemen NONE (hut), disband warrior
Mongols - Alliance, share maps, 50 gold
875BC - built beads caravan
825BC - 56 gold - 1st trade route (copper caravan to Tenochtitlan)
775BC - 50 gold (zulus)
750BC - built Temple, disband Archers
725BC - Literacy
56 gold - 2nd trade route (hides caravan to Tenochtitlan)
56 gold - 3rd trade route (beads caravan to Tenochtitlan)
675BC - alliance with English, 200 gold
Mongols - 75 gold
Aztecs - 25 gold
650BC - built Colosseum, share maps with English
600BC - built Aqueduct, 25 gold (Aztecs, Zulus), 75 gold (Mongols)
575BC - 100 gold (hut)
550BC - Philosophy, The Republic, revolution
525BC - switched to Republic, disband warrior and archer
French - peace, share maps
500BC - Seafaring (hut), begin WLTCD (pop is 4)
475BC - 125 gold (English), 50 gold (Zulus, Aztecs), 75 gold (Mongols)
375BC - 50 gold (Mongols), 100 gold (English)
300BC - Bridge Building, end WLTCD (pop is 12)
150BC - Mathematics
English - Engineering, 150 gold
25BC - 150 gold (English)
20AD - Astronomy
Aztecs - Banking
40AD - built Copernicus' Observatory
80AD - Invention (English)
100AD - Medicine, sell Colosseum
120AD - built Shakepeare's Theatre, sell Temple
140AD - 100 gold (Zulus, Aztecs), 150 gold (Mongols), 250 gold (English)
160AD - built Harbour
180AD - Sanitation
200AD - built Sewer System, begin WLTCD (pop is 12)
English - 200 gold
Mongols - 50 gold
240AD - built Bank, 50 gold (Aztecs)
260AD - University
280AD - built University, 50 gold (Zulus), 100 gold (Mongols, English)
300AD - built gold caravan
320AD - Democracy, built cloth caravan
380AD - Theory of Gravity, end WLTCD (pop is 21), begin revolution
460AD - switched to Democracy, 50 gold (English), 307 gold (Cloth to Rheims)
500AD - Economics
Aztecs - Gunpowder
540AD - Chemistry, built Isaac Newton's College, 100 gold (Zulus), 150 gold (English)
580AD - Explosives, built Stock Exchange, 100 gold (Zulus)
390 gold (gold to Orleans)
600AD - war with French
620AD - Navigation, built Engineer
640AD - 100 gold (English)
660AD - Physics, built dye caravan
700AD - Magnetism
740AD - Metallurgy
760AD - built Gold caravan, 100 gold (English)
780AD - Electricity
800AD - built 2nd engineer
820AD - Refrigeration, 200 gold (Aztecs), 50 gold (Mongols)
840AD - built Supermarket, 50 gold (Zulus), 200 gold (English)
860AD - Steam Engine, begin WLTPD (pop is 19)
880AD - built gold caravan, 50 gold (Zulus, Mongols)
920AD - Railroad
Aztecs - Conscription
980AD - Industrialization
1020AD - 50 gold (English), 100 gold (Mongols)
1040AD - The Corporation, 100 gold (Mongols), peace with French
150 gold (cloth to Teotihuacan)
160 gold (gold to Tenochtitlan)
1080AD - Refining, end WLTPD (pop is 28), sell sewer system
1100AD - built Darwin's Voyage, Combustion, Steel, sell aqueduct
1120AD - Automobile, 166 gold (dye to Ulundi)
1140AD - Electronics, built Superhighways
1180AD - Feudalism, built engineer (just realized that I'm going ot run out of food when I get up to 80 production, so am reducing pop a little)
1220AD - Chivalry, built spice freight
1240AD - 100 gold (English)
1280AD - Leadership
1340AD - Tactics
1360AD - 728 gold (spice to Hastings)
1380AD - Machine Tools
1440AD - Miniturization
1480AD - built Offshore Platform
1500AD - Mass Production
1530AD - Computers, 732 gold (freight to Hastings)
1550AD - Mobile Warfare, 650 gold (gems to Shanghai)
1560AD - built Factory
1570AD - Robotics, built Hydro Plant
1580AD - built Manufacturing Plant
1590AD - Flight
1620AD - Radio, now have 80 production, disband engineer
1650AD - Advanced Flight
1670AD - Atomic Theory (Mongols), Rocketry
1690AD - Space Flight
1700AD - built Apollo Program
1710AD - Plastics
310 gold (Coal to Warwick)
396 gold (Cloth to Hastings)
137 gold (freight to York)
1720AD - Nuclear Fission
1740AD - Nuclear Power
1752AD - disband engineer (going to run out of food too early)
1756AD - The Laser
1764AD - Superconductor
1772AD - Fusion Power
1786AD - run out of food, engineer lost
1788AD - Launch, Stealth
1800AD - English have a 38-8-8-0-0-0 spaceship built - lucky they haven't developed superconductor
1803AD - Landing on AC
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited May 05, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

What a pain! REDBARON BEATS ME BY 12 MONTHS!!
______________
You can go off people, vik ...
Well here goes:
v2.42 Deity OCC#8 "Lost at Sea"
AC in 1872

2450 BC Monarchy
0925 BC Republic
0700 AD Democracy

1350 BC Colossus
0040 AD Copernicus' Observatory
0420 AD Shakespeare's Theatre
1160 AD Newton's College
1610 AD Darwin's Voyage
1814 AD Apollo Program

0450 BC Trade Route #1
0450 BC Trade Route #2
0350 BC Trade Route #3

0650 BC Trade
2150 BC Construction
0140 AD Sanitation
1040 AD Refrigeration
1520 AD Automobile
1740 AD Computers
1812 AD Space flight

0650 BC Size 12
0640 AD Size 21

Thinking (well what passes for that where I'm concerned):
"I want the whale not the fish so if (Big IF!) these specials are in the sought pattern it has to be North or West. Nothing better - I was born on the West coast so 'Westward Ho!'"

4000 An inhospitable looking mountain, "Thank you, vik!"

3950 Now found fish & buffalo, but if they are in the pattern I need to build on a hill. Not now...

3900 Spice - but no pattern yet

3800 Southern Settler finds gold, Northern sights hut

3750 "Thar she blows!" Southern Settler spots whale blowing and coast hugging trireme locates wine - we have a 4 special site! hut - Archer

3650 Liverpool founded on Whale, Gold, Buffalo & Wine
3500 Hut - Horseman
3450 Warrior#1; Aztecs, peace
3350 Settler finally returns to Liverpool city radius; Aztecs maps no alliance
3300 Zulus - Ceremonial Burial(swapped), Mysticism(gifted) alliance
3250 Warrior#2; start Colossus
2750 Hut - (none) Archers
2650 Hut - (none) Chariot
2450 Monarchy; Revolution; MONARCHY; Buffalo to Pheasant
2400 Horseman gets air ticket home; Mongols - 50g + alliance
2350 Barbars kill Chariot; Mongols - Currency, Masonry, Pottery
2250 Mongols - maps
2150 Hut - CONSTRUCTION
2050 Archer (eventually) gets air ticket home
1950 Hut - Mathematics
1800 Hut - Barbarian kills Warrior
1750 Hut - Barbarian dies attacking Archer
1600 Wine now mined
Observation - a damaged unit self heals whilst aboard ship - I didn't know this.
1400 Hut - 25g; Aztecs, Literacy still no alliance!
1350 COLOSSUS
1250 Barbarian landing on my original mountain!
0975 Barbarian leader - 150g
0925 Philosophy - The Republic, Revolution, REPUBLIC (jammy eh!?)
0900 WLCD @ 4
0825 Zulus 100g; Mongols Horseback Riding, The Wheel + 200g; Aztecs Alliance, maps 150g; WLCD off @ 7
0800 Colosseum
0775 WLCD @ 7
0760 Mongols 150g
0650 TRADE; WLCD off @ 12; Mongols take 130g, Trade, give 150g
0475 Astronomy
0450 TRADE ROUTE #1&2 - Gold to Tlatelolco 82g; Beads to Teotihuacan 184g
0350 Medicine; TRADE ROUTE #3 - Dye to Tenochtitlan 228g
0225 University
0200 Aztecs Banking, 25g; Zulus 100g; Mongols Seafaring, Iron Working cancel alliance
0175 Barbar leader 150g at the cost of one unirigation
0125 Coal to Tenochtitlan 114g
0075 Bridge Building
----
AD40 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY; 100g from allies
0060 Engineering
0120 Beads to Hlobane 216g
0140 Sanitation
0200 Sewer System
0220 Chemistry; 150g, Navigation, Polytheism from allies
0240 Harbour
0260 WLCD @ 12; Barbarian landing (3 Legion + Leader)
0280 WLCD off @ 13; Invention
0360 150g from allies
0380 Gunpowder; 50g from allies
0420 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE; WLCD @ 13
0460 Bank
0500 Explosives
0520 150g from allies
0540 Engineer; 50g from allies
0560 remember to sell Colosseum
0580 Engineer; sell Temple
0620 Theory of Gravity
0640 WLCD off @ 21
0660 Wine to Ulundi 190g
0700 Democracy; Revolution; DEMOCRACY (I don't think I've ever had this three times before!)
0760 Metalurgy
0840 Physics; Wine to Ulundi 197g; rotten 25g from allies!
0860 Barbar landing - Knights this time!
0900 Magnetism; Mongols declare war - RATS! rush build Musketeer
0960 Electricity; fortified Archer beats one Knight; fortified Musk beats one and barely loses to second - taken out by horse; fit archer pursues leader - I have survived this time! Rush build diplo (Adam please note!)
0980 Barbar leader 150g
1040 REFRIGERATION; more Barbars on horizon - I'm beginning to dislike this game!
1060 French, peace, maps, no allliance - a buffer state for the Mongols - perhaps I can relax a little.
1100 Economics + 50g from allies - French still will not ally - Barbars lose two Knights to Archer in hill fortress (who doesn't get vet status - boo!)
1120 Steam Engine
1140 Supermarket; Wine to Ulundi 200g
1160 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE
1180 Railroad
1200 Musk blows away Elephant and achieves Vet status
1220 100g from allies
1240 Industrialisation
1300 The Corporation; Wine to Ulundi 134g
1360 Steel
1420 Refining
1440 50g from allies; Wine to Ulundi 200g
1480 Combustion
1520 AUTOMOBILE; Barbar leader 150g
1530 Superhighways
1540 Electronics
1600 Feudalism
1610 DARWIN'S VOYAGE - Chivalry, Leadership
1640 Tactics
1650 Wine to Ulundi (again) 370g
1680 Machine Tools
1710 Miniaturisation - things getting seriously sticky Mongols to the West, French to the South and Barbars to the East - this may be a disaster ...
1720 New hill created
1740 Computers, Offshore Platform
1750 175g from allies; New hill mined production now 34 (which I think will become > 80 when factoried, powered and manufactured)
1752 Research Lab
1760 Robotics, Factory
1762 Power Plant; 50g from Zulus; Wine to Ulundi 367g
1766 Atomic Theory; 100g from Aztecs
1770 Nuclear Fission; Peace with French - not that you can trust them ever!
1780 Flight (sob!)
1782 50g from Zulus
1784 my nuclear powered trireme enjoys its first outing!
1788 Radio; Wine to Ulundi 195g
1792 Build Cruiser for Mongol baiting; Gems to Tenochtitlan 88g
1796 Advanced Flight; Wine to Ulundi (bloody drunk Zulus) 202g - come to think of it - bloody drunk Scouse gits on their third bottle of red! Gold to Tenochtitlan 94g
1798 Manufacturing Plant
1804 Wine to Ulundi 192g
1808 Rocketry
1812 Space Flight
1814 APOLLO PROGRAM - brings back pictures that tell of the wonderful OCC site to be found to the DRATTED EAST after I have gone West - vik - I heartily HATE YOU!
1820 The Laser - French being seriously bloody minded
1822 250g from allies - gave the Zulus Feudalism
1826 Plastics
1830 200g from Aztecs
1836 Superconductor
1842 Structural#14, Component#1, Espionage - sneak attack by Frogs!
1857 Fusion Power; Launch!
1858 Airport;
1859 Combined Arms; Stealth Fighter (Vet)
1865 SAM Battery
1866 Coastal Fortress
1868 Rheims destroyed by Stealth fighter
1870 Marseilles destroyed by armour - I love the French
1872 LANDING AC

Wow! Definitely the hardest OCC I have ever played - it was touch and go from about AD 800 whether or not I would survive never mind achieve a landing. As it was I had to expand enormous resources simply to defend myself and my landing date reflects this all too well.
That was a real stinker, vik! Wish i had gone East - the extra river squares there would have made an enormous difference.

Thanks to all concerned.
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Edited to incluse summary table SG1]
[This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited May 08, 2000).]

[Oldman]

Well, i think i'm last again!! but only 35 years behind scouse and rebaron, so next time maybe next time!?!??!

Anyway my log...

2.42 Deity

Monarchy 2450bc
Republic 525bc
Democracry 1180ad

Colossus 1300bc
Observatory 200ad
Theatre 560ad
Newtons 1000ad
Darwins 1650ad
Apollo 1862ad

1st trade 575bc
2nd 540ad
3rd 1280ad


Construction 75bc
Trade 1300bc
Sanitation 1040ad
Refridgeration 1670ad
Automobile 1778ad
Computers 1824ad
Space Flight 1861ad

size 12 800ad
size 24 1802ad

AC landing 1906ad!!!


4000bc It looks like i'm quite far north, so south away from the arctic!!
mountains & whale??
3950bc SW, hills! landed settlers on river
3900bc wine with boat! gold and wine with settlers!!
3850bc settlers heading south into grassland! boat following wine!
3800bc river and oasis found by settlers and hut by boat!!
3750bc ideal spot found to get gold, oasis and wine!! moved settler there!!
3700bc founded Tenessee!!! found whale within catchment area!!!
3450bc Militia!!
started colossus!
3350bc added settler to tenessee!
reduced colossus from 100 to 50 turns, and discoveries from 12 to 10!!
3250bc 50 gold from hut!
3000bc Ceremonial Burial
2800bc french destroyed by mongols!
2550bc circum-navigated the globe!!
monarchy - revolution!!
2450bc MONARCHY!!
2350bc zulu's destroyed by barbarians!
2000bc babylonians destroyed by barbarians!
1900bc Currency!
1600bc size 3!
1350bc 150 ransom!!
rushed colossus!!
1300bc trade! colossus!!
1150bc Militia!
1100bc WLTKD
1050bc rushed caravan
1000bc caravan
started marco polo
900bc Writing!
825bc contact with aztecs exchanged:
monarchy for Masonry
trade for Mystisism
map making for Pottery
formed alliance!
800bc waged war on mongols for 150!
575bc exchanged currency for Literacy with aztecs, 100 gift
1st Trade!!! 98 revenue (gold) Tenochiltenan!
550bc Philosophy!
Republic (free)!! Revolution!!!
525bc formed Republic!
50 gift from aztecs
changed from marco's to (50% lost)temple!!
500bc WLTCD size 4
temple
475bc 75 gift from aztecs
450bc marketplace
425bc 100 gift
400bc caravan
375bc 50 gift
325bc met japanese, gave ceremonial burial, republic for alliance + maps
300bc 50 gift
225bc 50 gift
150bc give philosophy to aztecs
100bc 50 gift from aztecs
75bc alliance with english, gift of construction
25bc exchanged construction for banking with aztecs and gift of 50!
60ad 50 from aztec
100ad friends with chinese
50 from aztec
iron working gift from english
140ad seafaring from english
160ad 50 from english
180ad baught observatory!
200ad observatory!!!
220ad seafaring for horseriding with aztecs and 50
warrior code from english
240ad 150 from english
260ad 150 from english
library
300ad 150 from english
50 from aztecs
320ad 150 from english
340ad 100 from english
360ad medicine
380ad 100 from aztecs
50 from english
400ad 50 from english
420ad wheel from english
460ad 50 from english
520ad 50 from english
540ad trade 2, salt - 296 revenue
560ad Theatre!!!!! sold temple!
580ad 100 from aztecs
50 from english
600ad settler
WLTCD size 6
620ad 50 from english
640ad university (tech), Aquaduct!
75 from aztecs
bridges from english
680ad harbor
50 each from A and E
720ad 50 each from A and E
760ad 100 from a, 50 from e
800ad WLTCD cancelled size 12
50 each from a and e
840ad 100 from a and 50 from e
900ad astro for feud with english and 50
50 from aztecs
940ad shared maps with aztecs, english, japanese and chinese
960ad 150 from a and 50 from e
980ad shared loads of techs!
1000ad college!!!!!
50 each from a and e
1020ad shared more techs!
1040ad shared practically everything
50 from english
Sanitation!!!!
1060ad exchanged sanitation for navigation with aztecs, and 50
1100ad invention from english
1120ad 100 each from a and e
1140ad democracy!!!
shared more techs
1180ad DEMOCRACY ESTABLISHED!!!
50 from a and 150 from e
1200ad sewer system
1220ad WLTCD size 12
1240ad bank!!
1260ad contact with mongols, gave all techs!!
1280ad 3rd trade coal (unwanted) revenue 106
1300ad steam engine
invention for economics with aztecs plus 200
150 from english
1320ad 50 from a and e
1360ad railroad
1380ad 100 from e and 150 from a
WLTCD cancelled size 17
1420ad chemistry!
50 from english
1440ad 100 from a and 50 from e
1460ad gunpowder!
50 from a and 150 from e
1480ad 50 from a and 100 from e
1510ad explosives
trade dye - revennue 106
100 each from a and e
1530ad 50 from each a and e
1540ad industrialisation!
1550ad 100 each from a and e
1570ad 50 from a and e
Corporation!!
50 from a and 150 from e
1600ad atomic theory
100 from a and 150 from e
1630ad magnetism!
1640ad 150 gifts from a and e
1650ad Darwins Voyage
Metalurgy
Electricity
50 from a and e
1660ad 50 from a and 100 from e
1670ad refridgeration!
cannon!!!
1680ad 100 each from a and e
1690ad 50 each from a and e
1700ad electronics
1710ad 200 from a and 50 from e
1740ad steel
200 from a and 150 from e
1754ad communism
gave industrialisation to japanese, got gift of 300!!
1758ad 200 from a and 50 from J
1760ad refining
100 from aztecs
1768ad supermarket
Combustion
200 from a and 50 from J
1774ad 200 from a, 50 from J and 75 from e
1776ad automobile!!
1778ad superhighways!
100 from a, 75 from e and exchanged metalurgy for chivalry
1780ad WLTPD size 16
1782ad mass transit (tech)
1786ad 200 from a and 150 from e
1788ad conscription
1792ad 200 from a
1796ad leadership
150 from each a and e
engineer destroyed!
1802ad WLTPD cancelled size 24
200 from a and 150 from e
1804ad tactics
1806ad 200 from a and 150 from e
1810ad machine tools!
200 from a and 100 from e
1816ad miniaturisation!
200 from a and 100 from e
1824ad computers!!!!!!!
200 from a and 100 from e
1826ad gave 1000 to mongols for ceasefire!??!
200 from a and 100 from e
1830ad nuclear fission
sold sewer system
200 from a and 50 from e
1836ad nuclear power
1838ad allied with mongols against english - Machiavelli ROCKS!!!!
1840ad laser
1844ad flight!??!?!
1846ad offshore platform
1850ad factory
1851ad radio
1852ad engineer
1854ad nuclear plant!
1855ad advanced radio
sold aquaduct!
1858ad rocketry
1861ad space flight
1862ad apollo!!!
1864ad plastics
1867ad superconductor!
1868ad exchanged computers for mobile warfare!
1870ad fussion power
1871ad 3 modules
1888ad 15 structurals
1892ad 6 components
Launch - 1906 landing!!
1906ad Land on AC
JD the Cruel, 36% and 283points

[vik]

Hi.

I'm glad to see some of the responses on this scenario. As everyone who has played it realizes by now, there really wasn't one good location and three bad locations as the introduction would suggest.

Rather, all four directions led to a quite decent starting location. The East location might be considered slightly superior due to the fact it had one extra river square, but the east location didn't quite have as many trade specials as the other three, so I suppose it is a trade-off. I was striving for four pretty equal sites.

The statement in the introduction was just a ruse to hopefully arouse your senses. It also served to give every player a feeling of success early in the game.

"Yes! I found the right spot!" probably went through everyone's mind after a little bit of early exploring. This statement undoubtably followed curses after turn #1, because no matter which direction you chose, the first bit of land you saw was a big rock.

I wanted to make the map so that your trireme could go just about anywhere you needed it to go. I also tried to make the 4-special location easy to find after just a little bit of exploring. If you didn't find a 4-special location, I offer an apology and a promise. The promise is that for my next scenario, I will make the starting location very obvious. heh heh heh ...

My next scenario won't be ready for OCC#9, so I ask that someone else submit a scenario. Mine will be ready for OCC#10 (wow, roughly 20 weeks of this!). Also, if several of you have scenarios ready, let me know here or in the OCC#9 thread and I'll know to wait while we play some other scenarios.

take care.

Edited for a grammatical error; added the trireme sentence and the diabolical laugh at the end of paragraph 5.
[This message has been edited by vik (edited May 07, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

vik - Are you not playing this one? Just because it's your map doesn't mean we don't want to see you eaten by the Mongols
Oldman - Well done! I saw your spirited defense on the 'Lecture Series' thread, but I still think it was a mistake to B in your settler - your log shows that you were quite late to Demo and very late in your growth, particularly upto 20+. Mind while you are going back through the threads you will find that in my first outing OCC#1 or #2 I forget, I too neglected to change to Democracy until the 20th Century - this is after all a learning experience.
Returning to the Settler - as you remarked B-ing him in gave you a short term boost, but you then had to either survive without city radius improvements until Explosives or support a Settler to make the improvements - something of a lose-lose situation IMO.
You could of course rely on getting a non Settler from a hut - it does work, but you need a goodly few (none) exploring units.

This game broke my heart - at one stage I was supporting six units - I can normally get by with only one or two (+ the Engineers).

Great game

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Oldman]

Cheers Scouse!! I see what you mean about the settler, it was a good early boost. But you were right, i did struggle later in the game!! I was still improving my land right up until the 11th hour!!! Which held up my growth, and inturn my research and production!! I'll know next time!!!

[Scouse Gits]

Butch - Very Well done - a great landing date! Welcome aboard! Pity about the log - do try and keep one next time - we are all learning week by week.

Good civin'

------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Paul]

Went south, settled at coordinates 39, 41 (Whale, Gold, Wine, Oasis). The game didn't go exactly as planned: barbs killed my trireme, settler, first caravan and two engineers. End result: 1871 landing.

Monarchy -1250
Republic 540
Demacracy 1340

Colossus -1300
Copernicus 660
Shakespeare 880
Newton 1360
Darwin 1700
Apollo 1814

Trade routes: 100, 240, 320

Size 12: 700
Size 20: 1100


3450 BC Cardiff
3200 BC Warrior
2950 BC Warrior
2850 BC Barbarian Leader: 150 gold
2800 BC Warrior
2650 BC Hut Archer (supported)
2500 BC Hut: Currency
2450 BC Barbarians kill Trireme
1950 BC Ceremonial Burial
1350 BC Barbarian Leader: 150 gold
1300 BC Colossus
1250 BC Monarchy, revolution
Gov: Monarchy
1000 BC French: trade Pottery, Warrior Code; alliance
950 BC French: share maps
925 BC Marketplace
875 BC Temple
825 BC Writing
800 BC French: trade Horseback Riding
775 BC Barbarians kill Settler
700 BC Barbarian Leader: 150 gold
675 BC Library
625 BC Warrior
525 BC Settler
475 BC Trade
Mongols: peace
450 BC Build Salt Caravan
425 BC Barbarians kill Caravan
300 BC Build Salt Caravan
200 BC Masonry
150 BC Build Silver Caravan
1 AD Mongols: trade Iron Working; war
40 AD Build Hides Caravan
100 AD Construction
Salt to Orleans: 96 gold (demanded)
120 AD Diplomat
200 AD Trireme
240 AD Mysticism
Silver to Paris: 174 gold (demanded)
Chinese: trade Mathematics, Wheel; peace; share maps
260 AD Build Dye Caravan
280 AD English: trade Engineering; alliance; share maps; gift 200 gold
300 AD Build Gold Caravan
320 AD Hides to Nishapur: 116 gold (demanded)
340 AD Literacy
Colosseum
French: gift 50 gold
380 AD Aqueduct
Dye to Beijing: 128 gold (demanded)
Gold to Beijing: 64 gold (not demanded)
420 AD Build Coal Caravan
French: gift 50 gold
460 AD Food Caravan
480 AD Aztecs: trade Republic (revolution); peace; share maps
500 AD Food Caravan
540 AD Food Caravan
Gov: Republic
Start WLTCD, size 5
English: gift 125 gold
Mongols: cease fire
600 AD Food Caravan
620 AD English: gift 150 gold
Mongols: peace
640 AD Food Caravan
Astronomy
Coal to Tenochtitlan: 156 gold (not demanded)
660 AD Copernicus' Observatory
680 AD Hut: Philosophy
Aztecs destroy Zulus
700 AD Build Salt Caravan
End WLTCD, size 12
740 AD Food Caravan
English: gift 100 gold
French: trade Invention
780 AD Medicine
820 AD English: gift 100 gold
Chinese: share maps
860 AD Sell Colosseum
880 AD Shakespeare's Theatre
Sold Temple
920 AD Harbor
Sanitation
English: gift 100 gold
French: gift 50 gold
Start WLTCD, size 12
960 AD Sewer System
Salt to Shanghai: 158 gold (demanded)
1000 AD University
1020 AD Build University
Hut: Chariot
1080 AD Build Coal Caravan
Banking
English: gift 150 gold
1100 AD End WLTCD, size 20
Hut: Horsemen
1120 AD Bank
1160 AD Theory of Gravity
1220 AD Bridge Building
1240 AD English: share maps
Mongols: war
1280 AD Democracy, revolution
English: gift 75 gold
1340 AD Gov: Democracy
Coal to Tenochtitlan: 132 gold (not demanded)
English: gift 75 gold
1360 AD Isaac Newton's College
Babylonians: peace, share maps
1380 AD Economics
Mongols: cease fire
1420 AD Stock Exchange
Navigation
1460 AD Chemistry
Chinese: trade Gunpowder
1500 AD Metallurgy
1520 AD Explosives
English: gift 200 gold
1540 AD Physics
1560 AD Magnetism
Mongols: peace
1580 AD English: gift 200 gold
1590 AD Electricity
1610 AD Refrigeration
1620 AD Engineers
1640 AD Engineers
Steam Engine
English: gift Feudalism
1650 AD English: gift 200 gold
1660 AD Supermarket
Railroad
1680 AD Barbarians kill Engineers
1690 AD Industrialization
1700 AD Darwin's Voyage: Corporation, Steel
1720 AD Engineer
Refining
1740 AD Engineer
1750 AD Combustion
English: gift 200 gold
Mongols: war
1754 AD Automobile
English: gift 200 gold
1756 AD Superhighways
1758 AD Chivalry
English: gift 150 gold
1760 AD Build Gold Caravan
1762 AD Leadership
1764 AD Build Gems Caravan
Start WLTPD, size 21
1768 AD Build Oil Caravan
Electronics
1772 AD Barbarian Leader: 150 gold
English: gift 200 gold
1774 AD Mass Production
French: trade Conscription, Flight
End WLTPD, size 26
1780 AD Tactics
1784 AD Machine Tools
English: gift 200 gold
Gold Freight to Lyons: 248 gold (demanded)
1786 AD Engineer
1788 AD Miniaturization
1790 AD Offshore Platform
1792 AD Computers
Sold Sewer System
English: gift 200 gold
1794 AD Research Lab
Aztecs: trade Mobile Warfare
1796 AD Gold Freight
Robotics
Sold Aqueduct
English: gift 200 gold
1798 AD Oil Freight to Tenochtitlan: 496 gold (demanded)
Gems Freight to Tenochtitlan: 142 gold (not demanded)
1800 AD Radio
1802 AD Factory
English: gift 150 gold
1804 AD Advanced Flight
Gold Freight to Lyons: 260 gold (demanded)
1806 AD Power Plant
1808 AD Rocketry
English: gift 150 gold
1810 AD Manufacturing Plant
English: gift 150 gold
1812 AD Space Flight
English: gift 150 gold
1814 AD Apollo Program
English: gift 200 gold
1818 AD English: gift 150 gold
1820 AD Plastics
1826 AD Atomic Theory
1832 AD Nuclear Fission
1838 AD Nuclear Power
1844 AD Laser
1850 AD Superconductor
1856 AD Fusion Power
Launch
1871 AD Arrival on Alpha Centauri

[Smash]

I also went south and found it to be a barb infested area for much of the game.

the city that I had my 1st 2 trade routes with was destroyed(I didn't even notice) which probably wasn't helpful.

I tried Scouse's idea of caravans for wonders as it seems logical before your city is producing 25 sheilds


close my eyes and head down...Land Ho!
3900-I see gold
3850-wine and oasis
3800-whale!looks good-a few roads first
3700-hut-Burial
3500-hut-horseman
3450-Cardiff
3250-warrior-start Collosus
3200-contact Aztecs-gift Map-share maps-peace
3150-hut-50 gold
3100-gift Laws to Aztecs
2700-contact Zulus-gift Map and Laws-share maps-peace
2500-Monarchy-revolt-trade Zulus Alpha and Monarchy for Horseback and Myst-alliance
2450-govt-Monarchy
2400-gift Monarchy to Aztecs
2150-contact French-trade Alpha for Pottery,Myst for Currency-gift Map and Monarchy-peace-share maps-gift Pottery to Aztecs-share maps with Zulus and Aztecs
1900-gift Myst and Burial to French-wont ally-dam-I can see a purple warrior but cant reach it due to French ZOC-gift Burial to Zulus-trade Aztecs Currency for Mason-gift Burial
1600-Collosus
1500-Writing-gift Writing to Zulus-Writing and Mason to French-alliance-receive 25 gold-gift Writing to Aztecs-alliance-receive 150 gold
1450-library
1200-market
1050-Trade
975-trade Aztecs Trade for Construction-French gift 25-Zulus 50
950-hides caravan
925-Construction to Zulus-Trade to French-receive 25 gold
900-contact Mongols-gift Monarchy-ceasefire(French insisted I come to their aid)
850-gold caravan-Aztecs gift Warrior Code-gift Construction to French-share maps-gift Warrior Code to Zulus-gift Trade to Mongols
800-gift all
775-temple
750-Literacy
675-gift Lit to France receive 50-
600-colliseum-hides to Orleans(demanded) 88 bonus
550-Philosophy-Republic-revolt-trade Aztecs Repub for Math-receive Poly-Repub to Zulus and French-Mongols declare war
525-govt-Republic-gold to Orleans-44 bonus
500-start”we love” size 3
450-aquaduct
375-silk caravan-start wonder
350-trade French Poly for Banking
325-hut-Barbs
300-non horse KIA
275-end “we love” 12-sell colliseum-gift all-Zulus cancel alliance-Aztecs gift 150
225-Astronomy
200-Aztecs gift 50
100-Cope’s
25-caravan-barbs cause disorder
--------------
AD20-silk to Teo-(demanded)396 bonus
60-The Wheel-caravan-gift The Wheel and Astronomy to Aztecs and French-Aztecs gift 50-French cancel alliance-Zulus declare war
100-caravan-gift Wheel to Zulus ceasefire
160-Engineering-caravan
200-trade Aztecs Engineering for Seafaring-receive 100
220-caravan
240-Shake’s
260-Sanitation
280-harbor-Zulus declare war
320-start “we love” 12
340-sewer system-Engineering and Sanitation to Zulus-ceasefire-French declare war-Sanitation and Medicine to Aztecs-receive 100-gift all to Mongols-peace
380-Invention
400-bank
420-Aztecs gift 100
460-gold caravan
480-end “we love” 20-
500-Democracy-revolt-salt caravan
540-govt-Democracy-contact Chinese-trade Sanitation for Iron Working-gift Trade and Philosophy-peace-share maps
560-walls-slight miscalculation
600-contact England-trade Democracy and Invention for Bridge Building and Feudalism-peace-Zulus declare war-gift all to Aztecs-receive 100-gift all to China-Mongols declare war
620-University-salt to Canton(demanded) 146 bonus-I just noticed that Orleans is gone and so are my trade routes.
640-build university
680-Gravity-Invention and University to Mongols-peace
700-coal caravan
740-Economics-dye caravan
780-diplomat-large raiding party headin my way.Lots of barb activity in this southern locale so far
800-Gunpowder- enlighten 2 barb legions 82 gold each-gold arrives in Teno(demanded) 378 bonus-3 routes up again
820-caravan-French elephant arrives-recruited-102 gold
840-Chemistry-peace with French and Zulus
860-caravan-start wonder
920-Sir Ike’s
940-Aztecs gift 50
960-Metallurgy-bribe barb-82 gold
980-ai caravan from Teno-new route-2 routes now with the largest ai city(12)
1020-Navigation-stock exchange-The south is swarming with barbs
1060-engineer-settler KIA by barb crusader-bribed 82 gold
1080-Physics-engineer
1120-Magnetism-gift all to Zulus and Aztecs-receive Mono
1140-coal caravan
1160-Electricity-barb leader 150
1180-salt caravan-Aztecs cancel alliance
1200-Refrigeration
1220-supermarket
1240-Steam Engine-alliance with China-gift all cept Steam-receive 100-Mongols declare war-England declares war-got suckered by “enthusiastic”-French declare war-gift all cept Steam to Zulus-
1260-food caravan-Economics and Gravity to Zulus-Metallurgy to China
1280-Railroad
1300-start “we love” 18-FC(food caravan)
1340-Industrialization-FC
1360-French steal Economics
1380-FC
1400-Steel-gift Indust to Aztecs-coal to Teno 93 salt 93-ceasefire with French
1420-FC-Navigation to Mongols-ceasefire-end”we love” 24-sell sewer
1440-The Corporation-sell aquaduct
1460-Food Freight-start Darwin’s
1480-Refining-GIFT ALL-trade England for Chivalry-share maps
1500-Darwins-Combustion-Automobile
1510-Mass Production-more tech gifting
1530-Electronics
1540-superhighway
1550-Leadership
1570-Tactics
1580-bribe barb dragoon 102
1590-Machine Tools
1610-Miniaturization
1630-Computers
1640-research lab-disband elephant and legion
1650-alpine troop-disband dragoon
1660-armor-the ais are getting a little advanced
1670-Robotics
1690-Flight
1710-Radio-factory
1730-Advanced Flight-gift Tactics to China-receive 200 gold
1750-Rocketry-power plant
1754-Space Flight-manufacturing plant
1758-Plastics-offshore platform-start Apollo
1762-Atomic Theory
1766-Nuclear Fission-Chinese gift 200
1770-Nuclear Power
1774-The Laser-Apollo
1778-Superconductor
1800-Fusion Power
1804-15 structurals
1806-Stealth-sell research lab
1808-sell university
1810-sell library
1816-6 components
1820-sell superhighway-
1822-3 modules- launch
23-SAM
24-coastal fort
25-barracks
26-armor-China cancels alliance
27-stealth fighter
28-howitzer
29-howitzer
30-alpine troop
31-alpine troop
32-alpine troop
33-alpine troop
34-alpine troop
35-alpine troop
36-you guessed it-alpine troop
37-arrival


Wonders
Collosus-1600BC
Cope’s-100BC
Shake’s-240AD
Sir Ike’s-920AD
Darwins-1500AD
Apollo-1774-AD

Govts.
Monarchy-2450BC
Republic-525BC
Democracy-540AD

Trade routes
1.600BC
2.-525BC
3.-20AD


size 12-275BC
size 20-480AD
[This message has been edited by Smash (edited May 11, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

Hell & Damnation!! I thought that everyone used caravans for Wonders - if I had known that I had a tech advantage I would have demanded tribute!
Notice that Paul and Smash have 'terrible' games fighting the Barbs and still grind me into the dirt - I really should learn how to play this game.
I was able to spot a few weaknesses in Oldman's game logs and judging by his latest shot he seems to have benefitted. Would you guys spare a minute to look over mine and see if I am committing some unmentionable sin - pretty please


------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Smash]

dunno.Looks ok until later when your research slowed.Don't know if this was intentional or not.

I think the southern location had the best combo(whale,wine,gold,oasis and 4 river squares) but was a little more isolated and a haven for barbs.

Perhaps gifting.Having suspected,I am now sure that gifting can make the difference between 2 turns and 3.Several times my research dropped to 3 turns.I would gift techs and sure enough it would change to 2 turns.I didn't have to gift to every civ.I would gift to one,then check science advisor.Repeat if neccessary.
You can overdo it.I dropped to 3 turns just before superhighway.I gifted to 2 civs and got 2 turns.I figured I'd gift to all and when done it had dropped to 3 turns.

I,for one,wasn't rushing caravans to build my "middle" wonders.Am now though

[Scouse Gits]

Thanks, Smash, I have only used gifting as a means to raise tribute (and slow down the AIs military research - I did not know that it improved my own - I guess that it reduces the 'r' in that horrendous equation Sten? came up with since you are no longer quite as far ahead - I will try it..

Any other suggestions?


------------------
____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Tom DeMille]

I've made it a habit to give ALL my science away to ALL the AIs that I can (obviously the ones who are at war with you can't be gifted anything).

I find that if an AI then discovers what I am researching (say I'm 4/5ths of the way to Engineering when one of them discovers it), I can usually get the tech by asking for a gift. Not all the time, mind you, but enouh of the time I don't worry about hording a tech or two for trade.

[vik]

hi. Just a quick question on the scenario.

Did anyone/everyone who played find a drastically increased amount of barb activity?

Just a quick glance at the logs shows that there seemed to be a lot more. Is this noticeably true, or not?

I think I found something in the options that makes the barbs go after you more...

just wondering, thanks.

[Oldman]

I did notice a lot more barbs in occ8 than in 6 and 7!!! but i didn't record them in my log i don't think, somehow my militia didn't have any trouble dealing with them at all, even though i was ****ing bricks every time they attacked, i had more trouble with the mongols!!!!! unfortunately i've not had trouble with the zulu's as of yet!!! maybe that's lucky for you guys!?!??! 'cause my log would be filled with micheal caine quotes "Don't you through those bloody spears at me!" ha ha [bad accent] ha ha!!!!!!

So what is it you've found in the options? is it the options in the rules.txt or some scenario ones???

Edited: bloosy spekking mistakrs!! doh!!
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited May 12, 2000).]