Announcement

**tonic** · October 12, 2000, 20:27

With the isolated location of London, the last civ was not contacted until 300 BC. However this isolation also meant no real problems in the end game. Not too much gold from gifts but relatively fast tech rates.

2.42 Deity

AC: 1746

Monarchy: -2050
Republic: -325
Democracy: 300

Colossus: -2050
Copernicus: -225
Shakespeare: -25
Newton: 440
Darwin: 1020
Apollo: 1510

Trade routes: -975, -875, -775

Size 12: -350
Size 21: 160

Trade: -1450
Construction: -1150
Sanitation: -100
Refrigeration: 640
Automobile: 920
Computers: 1180
Space Flight: 1500

3750 BC Hut: Horseman
3700 BC London founded
3550 BC Hut: 50
3350 BC Hut: 50 Hut: Barb
3200 BC Hut: 100
3150 BC Hut: 50
3000 BC Indians: peace
2950 BC Indians: Alliance
2650 BC Writing Aztecs: peace
2600 BC Japanese: Peace tribute of Iron Working
2100 BC Hut: 50
2050 BC Colossus Monarchy revolution Govt Monarchy
Indians: gift of Horseback Riding
1950 BC Indians: 100
1900 BC Library Aztecs: Alliance + 50 gift
1750 BC Germans: Alliance + 100 gift
1700 BC Temple
1650 BC Indians: gift of Mapmaking
1550 BC Indians: 50
1500 BC Marketplace
Aztecs: 25
1450 BC Trade
1350 BC Beads caravan built
Germans: gift of Pottery
1300 BC Germans: 25
1250 BC Aztecs: 25
1150 BC Construction
Dye caravan built
Indians: 50
975 BC Hides caravan built
Aztecs: 50
Beads to Delhi (demanded): 120
925 BC Mysticism
Dye to Delhi (demanded): 124
850 BC Seafaring
800 BC Harbor Hut: 50
Indians: gift of Warrior Code
775 BC Hides to Delhi (not demanded): 62
750 BC Literacy
726 BC Indians: 25
675 BC Aztecs: 50
625 BC Hut: Mathematics
575 BC Indians: 100
550 BC Hut: Banking revolution
525 BC Govt. Republic disband Warrior Start WLTCD
475 BC Aztecs: 50
400 BC Astronomy Indians: 50
375 BC Germans: gift of Polytheism
350 BC Pop: 12 Stop WLTCD
325 BC Germans: 50
300 BC Americans: exchange Philosophy
250 BC Medicine
Japanese: exchange Wheel Indians: 50 Aztecs: 50
225 BC Copernicus Germans: 50
200 BC Engineering
Hides to New York (demanded): 333
Hut: 50
100 BC Sanitation
Germans: 50
25 BC Shakespeare's Theatre Start WLTCD
Aztecs: 50 Indians: 100

AD1 University Sewer System Sell Colosseum
20 Sell Temple
Germans: 50
40 Germans gift of Bridge Building
80 Theory of Gravity University built
140 Economics
160 Pop: 21 Stop WLTCD
200 Invention Germans: 50
280 Chemistry revolution
300 Govt. Democracy
320 Germans: 50
340 Gunpowder
380 Explosives
420 Navigation
440 Isaac Newton’s College
460 Physics
480 Bank
500 Magnetism
Germans: 50
540 Metallurgy Stock Exchange
Beads to Tlateloco (demanded): 300
560 Electricity
600 Steam Engine
Japanese: exchange Feudalism
Americans: exchange Conscription
Germans: 50
620 Galleon built Indians: 25
640 Refrigeration Diplo built
660 Supermarket
680 Railroad
Indians: 25
720 Industrialization Japanese: exchange Chivalry
740 Dye to Hambourg (demanded) 192
Bribe Indian Engineer
760 Corporation
Aztecs exchange Monotheism
780 BarbLeader: 150
Germans: 50
800 Steel Americans exchange Atomic Theory
820 Start WLTPD
840 Refining
860 Gems to Leipzig (demanded) 324
Max pop: 22 end WLTPD
900 Indians: 25
920 Automobile Germans: exchange Theology
940 Superhighways
960 Mass Production
Dye to Delhi (demanded) 256
1000 Leadership BarbLeader: 150
1020 Darwin's Voyage Nuclear Fission Tactics
1040 Electronics
1080 Machine Tools
1100 Germans: 75
1120 Mobile Warfare
Gems to Bombay (demanded): 714
1140 Miniaturization
1160 Germans: 75
1180 Computers
1200 Research Lab
1220 Robotics
Germans: 150
1260 Flight
Americans: exchange Genetic Engineering
1280 Indians: 50
1300 Nuclear Power
1320 Germans: 150
1340 Radio
Indians: 600g for declaring war with Japanese J
1360 Germans war Japanese
1380 Advanced Flight
Germans: 100
1400 Indians: 50
1420 Laser
1460 Rocketry
1480 Disband Galleon
1500 Space Flight Manufacturing Plant
1510 Apollo
1550 Plastics
1590 Communism
1630 Fusion Power
1710 Launch 15-1-1-1-1-1 SS
Espionage
1711 Barracks
1712 Armor
1713 Spy
1714 Stealth Coastal Fortress
1715 Stealth Fighter
1716 Nuclear Plant sell Power Plant
1717 Alpine Troops
Mass Transit
1722 Guerilla Warfare
1723 SAM
1726 Labor Union
1730 Environmentalism
1734 Combined Arms
1738 Amphibious Warfare
1742 Fundamentalism
1746 Landed AC

Edit: Have just found this more appropriate thread to post the log!

**Ribannah** · October 14, 2000, 18:35

OCC Aurelius
Deity
MGE

Yuck! Another uprooted tech tree. Seems Navigation is the culprit here. Decided to research Flight early when we couldn't get Miniaturization(!), based on earlier experiences when Flight was lost for ages ...
But the AI's were extraordinarily friendly, even after launch none came to bother us. Four allies gave a lot of cash, but little tech. Where were the Whites in this scenario??
Lessons to learn for early landing dates: [1] make contact ASAP so you can ally, or else they will already be at war with each other; [2] keep giving all your tech even after Flight (until Spaceflight), they will not have enough resources to build a fast spaceship quickly.

================================================== ==============
AC: 1516

Monarchy: -2850
Republic: -2050
Democracy: 60

Colossus: -2050
Copernicus: -725
Shakespeare: -275
Newton: 240
Darwin: 560
Apollo: 1080

Trade routes: -850, -775, -675

Size 12: -150
Size 21: 60 (Size 23 in 100)
Size 25: 520

Trade: -1850
Construction: -600
Sanitation: -150
Refrigeration: 220

Automobile: 580
Computers: 880
Space Flight: 1060
============================================

-4000 Alphabet, Bronze Working, Masonry
LONDON
-3950 no Writing
-3800 Warriors
-3750 Code of Laws
-3650 We are "most advanced"
-3600 Warriors, Ceremonial Burial(h)
-3450 S2
-3400 N-Archers, someone closeby?
-3300 Writing, no Literacy
-3250 N-Horsemen(h), Indians, Peace, 5 techs->I (we don't want Pottery now), Ally
-3100 100(h)
-3050 Library
-3000 N-Archers(h)
-2950 50(h), N-Horsemen (h)
-2900 Temple, Aztecs, Peace, 3 techs->Az, Ally
-2850 Monarchy, MONARCHY, 50(h)
-2800 2 Barb Archers
-2750 Monarchy->I, Pottery<-I, Literacy(h)
-2700 Germans, traded for Map Making, Horseback Riding and Mathematics, Peace, 3 techs->G, no Ally
-2650 S3, 6,4 techs->Az,I, Maps, no gifts
-2600 Japanese, traded for Currency and Warrior Code, Peace, 5 techs->J, Maps, Ally, 50 , 25(h)
-2550 N-Horsemen(h), 50(h)
-2350 1,2,2 techs ->G,Az,I, -,-,50
-2250 25(h)
-2200 Iron Working(h)
-2150 N-Horsemen(h), N-Legion(h)
-2100 1,2,1,1 techs ->J,G,Az,I 25,25,50,- , di 2 Warriors
-2050 COLOSSUS, The Republic, REPUBLIC, N-Legion(h)
-2000 We Love , Mysticism(h)
-1950 S5(!)
-1900 S6, Philosophy(h)
-1850 S7, Trade (Phi), War(G) as demanded by Aztecs
-1800 We Love ends , Barb Chariot
-1750 Americans, Peace, 12 techs->Am, Maps, no Ally (Am are at war with J)
4,4,4 techs->J,Az,I, Maps, no gifts , 4 techs->G, Cease Fire
-1700 Marketplace
-1550 Astronomy, N-Horsemen(h)
-1450 Beads
-1300 1 tech->I,Az,J, 25,50,50
-1250 Wine, Medicine
-1150 Salt
-950 Food, Banking, 1 tech->J,Az,I, 100,50,-
-900 Hides
-850 Hides, Beads to Teotihuacan (144)
-825 Barb Leader (150)
(PYRAMIDS - Americans)
-800 Hides
-775 University, Seafaring(h), Wine to Teotihuacan (144), 1,3,3 techs->J,Az,I 50,-50 , Maps(Az,i), Peace(G), 2 techs->G, 4 techs->Am, Maps, Ally, 150
-750 Hides
-725 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY
-675 Harbor, Economics, Theory of Gravity(h), Salt to Teotihuacan (152), 1 tech->G, Maps, 4 techs->J, Maps
-650 2 Barb Chariots
-625 University
-600 Construction, S8, 1 tech->J,Az,Am,I, 50,25,-,-
-575 Bank, Navigation(h) - disturbs tree
-525 Bridge Building, 1,4,4,4,6 techs->J,Az,Am,I,G -,25,50,-,x Maps(Az,Am,I,G)
-500 Food
-450 Food
-425 Physics, 1 tech->J,Az,Am,I, 50,50,50,50
-400 Food, 100(h)
-350 Food
-325 The Wheel, 1 tech->J,Az,Am,I, 50,-,100,25
-300 Food
-275 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE
-250 We Love
-225 Aquaduct, Engineering, S9, 1 tech->J,I, 50,-
-200 S10
-175 S11, 1 tech->J, 50 , Barb Horsemen
-150 Sanitation, S12, traded for Magnetism(Az), 1 tech->Az,Am,I, 50,50,- , 5 techs->G, Maps
-125 Sewer System, S13, Barb Horsemen, Leader disappears again
-100 S14
-75 Gems, Invention, S15, no Democracy , 1 tech->Az,Am, 50,50 , Barb Horsemen
-50 S16
-25 Gold, S17
1 Gunpowder, S18, 4,1,1,3 techs->J,Az,Am,I, -,50,50,50 , Maps(J,I)
20 Food, S19
40 S20
60 Stock Exchange, Democracy, DEMOCRACY, S21, 1,1 tech->Az,Am, 50,50 , 3 techs->G, Maps
80 Barb Legion, S22
100 Food, Metallurgy, S23, 1 tech->J,Az,Am,I, 50,50,50,25
120 We Love ends
140 Food, Electricity
180 Food, Steam Engine, 1 tech->J,Az,Am, 50,50,50
220 Food, Refrigeration, Gems to Teotihuacan (156), 1,1,2,3,4 techs->J,Az,Am,I,G, 25,-,50,-,x , Maps(I,G)
240 ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE, Chemistry, Gold to Teotihuacan (156)
260 Conscription
280 Supermarket
300 Explosives, 4,4,3,1 techs->J,Az,Am,I, 100,-50,25 , Maps(J,Az,Am)
320 Engineers, S22
340 Railroad
360 Food
380 Feudalism, 2,2,3,5,5 techs->J,Az,Am,I,G, -,75,50,25,x , Maps(G)
400 Food
420 Industrialization
440 Factory, We Love , 1 tech->J,Az,Am, 50,75,50
460 The Corporation, S23
480 Gems, S24, di N-Horsemen
500 Engineers, Refining, S24, di N-Horsemen, traded for Atomic Theory(Az) and Polytheism(Am), 1,1,1,2,5 techs->J,Az,Am,I,G, 50,50,50,-,x , Maps(G)
520 Food, S25, di N-Legion, sold Sewer System
540 Steel, We Love ends, no Combustion , sold Aquaduct, 1,1,1 tech->J,Az.Am, -,50,- , Maps(J)
560 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Electronics, Combustion, sold Temple, di N-Horsemen
580 Hydroplant, Automobile, di N-Horsemen, 1,1,1,3 techs->J,Az,Am,I, 50,50,50,- , Maps(I)
600 Superhighways (64 beakers short of 1 advance/turn)
620 Mass Production, Gems to Teotihuacan (253)
640 Gold, Chivalry, Grassland/r into Hills/r, 5,5,3,2,6 techs->J,Az,Am,I,G, 50,-,50,-,x , Maps(J,Az,G)
680 Mass Transit, Leadership
720 Food, Tactics, 5 techs->I, Maps, 50
740 Plains into Grassland(s)
760 Food, Machine Tools, no Miniaturization , taking a risk selecting Flight
780 3,3,3,1,3 techs->J,Az,Am,I,G Maps, 50,50,50,75,x
800 Food, Flight, Hills/r mined
820 Diplomat
840 Miniaturization, Plains into Grassland(s)
860 Offshore Platform -> 58 shields
880 Food, Computers, Bribed Barb->N Musketeers (61), di N-Archers, Gold to Leipzig (d,282)
900 Research Lab, Radio
(LEONARDO'S WORKSHOP - Americans)
940 Advanced Flight, Plains into Grassland(s)
980 Rocketry, no Space Flight
1020 Communism
1060 Space Flight, Plains into Grassland -> 55 shields, di N-Legions
1080 APOLLO PROGRAM
1100 S01, Plastics, buying Granaries, Indians develop Flight
1120 S02
1140 S03, Mobile Warfare
1160 S04
1180 S05, Nuclear Fission
1200 S06, 1 tech->J,Az,Am, 100,100,50
1220 S07, Nuclear Power
1240 S08
1260 S09, The Laser, selecting Monotheism, traded for Monotheism(G)
1280 S10, Br Barb Riflemen (82), Barb Riflemen
1300 S11, Superconductor, Barb Leader (150)
1320 S12
1340 S13, Fusion Power
1360 S14
1380 S15, di N-Horsemen
1400 C01, di N-Archers, 1 tech->J,Az,Am,I 100,150,50,100 , sold Mass Transit
1420 C02, di N-Settlers, sold Hydroplant, buying Oracles
1440 M01, di N-Musketeers, sold Research Lab
1460 M02, di Diplomat, we have 27 gold left + 2 Engineers, 1 Riflemen
1480 M03, LAUNCH 15-1-1-1-1-1
1481 Barb Riflemen
1482 Research Lab
1484 Mass Transit, Robotics
1486 City Walls, Recycling
1487 Barracks
1488 Environmentalism
1489 Solar Plant
1490 Espionage
1491 SAM Missile Battery, Barb Artillery
1492 Alpine Troops, Stealth
1493 Barb Rif
1494 Manufacturing Plant, Genetic Engineering
1496 Theology
1497 HANGING GARDENS
1498 Guerilla Warfare
1499 Barb Art
1500 LIGHTHOUSE, Amphibious Warfare, Barb Rif, di Engineers
1501 Stealth Fighter, 2 Barb Art, 2 Barb Rif
1502 Labor Union
1503 Barb Rif
1504 MARCO POLO'S EMBASSY, Combined Arms, Barb Art, Aztecs develop Space Flight
1506 Fundamentalism
1507 Aztecs: S01
1508 Future Tech 1, Americans: Space Flight
1509 Americans: S01
1510 ADAM SMITH'S TRADING CO., Future Tech 2, Americans: S02, UNITED NATIONS
1512 Future Tech 3, Americans: S03,S04
1513 Aztec: S02
1514 Future Tech 4
1515 EIFFEL TOWER
1516 ALPHA CENTAURI

Score: 418 (54%)

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

**Simpson II** · October 14, 2000, 21:38

Ribannah,

That's 1513, right? Good grief.. The last I heard, that would be the second fastest reported AC Deity landing, outside of scenarios, and the fastest without using the rehoming caravans cheat. I could be wrong, but it's still a fantastic achievement!!

In your opinion, is the most important difference between your game and the other two the early library you built? The gold you acquire presumably allowed you to rush both that and the Colossus to completion, since you finish Col. on the same turn as the other Paul and tonic.
Your launch is pushed back 22 turns before tonic's.. how much do you think the game could have been improved if you got the techs in the order you wanted? You just hit the 20-year increments with your launch, so 5 turns would be a century, lol! A 1416 landing on the cards at all?

I'll have to give OCC ago, I think. In my only game to date, I founded my first city at roughly the same time as you discovered automobile! Perhaps there are still a couple of refinements to be squeezed out, after all.

**Paul** · October 15, 2000, 02:46

Edit: I had the wrong date for Ribannah's landing in fortnight 2, so this is the new OCC record.

[This message has been edited by Paul (edited October 15, 2000).]

**Ribannah** · October 15, 2000, 07:27

quote:

Originally posted by Simpson II on 10-14-2000 09:38 PM
In your opinion, is the most important difference between your game and the other two the early library you built? The gold you acquire presumably allowed you to rush both that and the Colossus to completion, since you finish Col. on the same turn as the other Paul and tonic.

Yes, that makes a big difference. You need some money from huts to make it advantageous, but since you often get money it's worth the gamble.

We lost 40 years when we couldn't research Space Flight, and probably another 20 because Automobile was slow in coming. In addition, we had poor luck with the trade caravans, and the AI's didn't offer many techs (no Construction, Banking, Feudalism, Chivalry, Metallurgy or Conscription).

Note also that this is merely a 3-specialties location, so I think there is still room for improvement
Eventually someone is bound to land in 1000 AD ....

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

**Scouse Gits** · October 16, 2000, 05:58

There is a lovely Scouse expression that describes my feelings, "I'm gobsmacked!"
We are going to have to do some serious goblin hunting!
Well done that girl!

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____________
Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
"The Great Library must be built!"

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