Announcement

**Hueij** · September 4, 2000, 16:05

Dang, just finished #16... Well, this one has to wait till next weekend but it sounds good. Two civs for the price of one

**Caesar** · September 4, 2000, 17:01

Hmm... When I get the chance I will, right now I'm trying to play some diablo 2 and civ mp w/o it interfering with my schoolwork

The barbs provide for some interesting strategy, wait can you play as 2 civs in 2.42? Or only one? Another question before I play in 2.42, assuming you can play 2 civs, is it like MGE hotseat where you can't see your opponents moves?

**Smash** · September 4, 2000, 21:41

I'm a little confused(fancy that).

Does this mean I can build "red" cities if I want to?

**SandMonkey** · September 4, 2000, 21:50

http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum4/HT...tml?date=19:44

There are your answers people. That's the thread that discusses playing as the barbs. I tried it out, and it's pretty neat. Just beware that your barb units get their butts kicked all over the map.

**Oldman** · September 5, 2000, 04:50

This is starting to sound very confusing!?!?!? can the barbs do diplomacy? Ooo-urhg-ahh this is doing my hang over no good at all!!!

Edit Typos...
[This message has been edited by Oldman (edited September 05, 2000).]

**Ribannah** · September 5, 2000, 10:17

Paul, how about Smash's question? Are the Reds allowed
to have cities in OCC? Zero, one, or as many as they want?

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

**Paul** · September 5, 2000, 11:35

I don't think the barbs should have any cities. But the scenario was made by Tom, so I would also like to hear his opinion on the subject.

**Tom DeMille** · September 5, 2000, 14:27

Hey all, I hadn't realized Paul had posted the scenario yet.

As Paul said, I hex edited a v242 saved game to allow you to play both as the whites and reds. You can play with MGE by selecting hotseat mode.

Official rules for Red barbarians: Do whatever the heck you feel like with them.

unofficial hints: (Smash's question) founding a barb city is next to useless. Since barbs can't have any techs (you can research them, but you "loose" them when discovered), your city will be stuck building warriors or other settlers. Hmmm, I guess you could build a barb city (or capture an AI city) and pump out lots more settlers. Maybe not such a useless idea after all.

(Oldman's question) You can found embassies with your barb diplomats, but the AIs won't talk to you- you will be in a constant state of war.

Anyways, have fun.

edit: Smash, give me a shout if this doesn't work on your Mac version.
[This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited September 05, 2000).]

**Ribannah** · September 5, 2000, 15:04

Yes, more NONE Settlers was the idea. But you'd have to use one of the original two to make it happen, and maybe the delay isn't worth it. We'll see

**Smash** · September 5, 2000, 16:25

It works perfectly on my MAC

I was thinking after land improvements to build "buffer" barb cities but I'm not sure yet.

Needless to say,this is new for me and I'm still thinking about how to take advantage.

**tonic** · September 5, 2000, 19:33

On 2.42 the switching from Romans to Barbs takes a bit of getting used to. Pity about not being able to effectively pop huts with Barb units!

Tom demonstrates yet again there's many a twist to OCC!

**Tom DeMille** · September 5, 2000, 21:51

And too bad you can't trade maps between the whites and reds

**Ribannah** · September 6, 2000, 22:09

OCC #17
Deity
MGE

Interesting, and weird. Could probably be a lot faster with Barb cities (you need Leo, of course), but I tried without and they were a lot of help already, bringing free units and bounty to our homestead.
Disturbing was the fact that declarations of war and such went unnoticed because of the multiplayer version. We even got tech without notification (Monotheism, apparently).
We opted for the "slow" 36 year spaceship, but the AI's were no threat. Our fortified Riflemen kept even their Armor at bay; they never discovered Flight.
A thing to mention is that in Multiplayer the AI tribes are much more civilized than in Single Player MGE, and we got some nice gifts we never saw before.

================================================== ==============
AC: 1716

Monarchy: -
Republic: -1950
Democracy: 140

Colossus: -1800
Copernicus: 600
Shakespeare: -50
Newton: 380
Leonardo: 500
Darwin: 980
Apollo: 1460

Trade routes: -825, -750, -675

Size 12: 20
Size 21: 200 (23 in 240)

Trade: -1300
Construction: -800
Sanitation: -125
Refrigeration: 520

Automobile: 980
Computers: 1160
Space Flight: 1440
============================================

-4000 ROME founded
-3950 50(h), East Barb Settlers to work
-3850 Alphabet, West Barb Settlers to work
-3800 Warriors, Chariot(h)
-3750 di Warriors
-3650 Archers(h)
-3500 50(h)
-3400 S2
-3350 Writing
-3000 Code of Laws, Pottery (hut)
-2850 Barbs get a Trireme with Archers and Diplomat!!
Aztecs found, Writing<->Ceremonial Burial(A), Peace(A),
techs->A, Ally(A), 50<-A
-2800 Hey! My Dip is home! Don't we get to see AI moves?
-2650 Barb Leader (100)
-2450 Barbs get trireme with Archers and Diplomat
Barbs get Horsemen (hut by Persian Warriors?)
Literacy
-2400 Literacy->A, 25<-A (still Worshipful, what's this??)
-2350 Bribed Barb->NONE Trireme
-2300 Br Barb->N Archers
-2250 Mongols, Peace(M), tech->M, Ally(M), no Gift *
-2050 Another Barb Trireme +Dip,Arch
-2000 Hmmm, Barb Horsemen have survived an attack
-1950 "Barbarian uprising near Rome"
Barbs find Zimbabwe
The Republic
Barb Leader (100)
-1900 Barb Legion appears (hut by Zulus)
Revolution
-1850 REPUBLIC, di Archers, di Chariot, Br 2 Barb->N Horsemen

-1800 COLOSSUS

-1750 The Republic<->Mysticism(A), 50<-A
The Republic->M, Mysticism->M, 25<-M
-1700 Temple
-1650 2 Barb Triremes added +Dip,Arch
We Love , N-Elephant(h)
-1600 S4
-1550 Currency, S5, Barb Leader (100)
-1500 Barb Horsemen (A or M hut?), disappears when trying to attack
Barb Dip+2Horsemen
Marketplace, S6, B Leader (100), 100(h), Barb Horsemen(h)
-1450 S7, Barb Leader (100)
Carthagians suddenly appear on Foreign list - don't want to speak
-1400 We Love ends , 25(h)
-1350 Diplomat, N-Legion(h)
-1300 Philosophy -> Trade

-1250 Barb Trireme +Dip/Arch
Salt
-1200 Br Barb->N Trireme (sw sea), N-Settlers(h)
-1150 Wine, Barb Leader (100)
Trade->A, * Hey! We have no more Alliance! *
Warrior Code->M
4 techs->C, Ally(C), * no Gift *
-1050 Gold, Br Barb Trireme (sw sea)
-1000 Map Making
3 techs->A, Maps(A)
Map making->M, Maps(M), Map making->C, they stop talking
-975 Food, Barb Leader (100)
-950 S8
-925 Barb Trireme +Dip/Arch
Gems, N-Legion(h)
-875 Masonry, Zulus, Peace(Z),
traded for The Wheel and Horseback Riding, gave 1 tech
Ally(Z), Maps(Z), 150<-Z , Br Barb->N Settlers (164)
-850 Barb Leader (100), Barb Horsemen(h)
-825 2 Barb Legions (Persian hut?)
Food, Br Barb trireme (north ocean)
Salt to Tenochtitlan (d,215)

-800 Construction, Vikings, Map Making<->Iron Working(V), Peace(V),

2 techs->V
-775 Cloth
-750 Gold to Tenochtitlan (122)

3 techs to Zulus, no gift
3 techs to Vikings, Maps
3 techs to Aztecs, Maps
1 tech to Carthagians, Maps
2 techs to Mongols
-725 Barb Trireme +Dip/Legion!
Food
-700 Persians, they demand 250 -> War(P), Barb Leader (100)
-675 Mathematics, Wine to Carthage (d,314), Gems to Tenochtitlan (128)

-625 Wine, Astronomy, Br Barb->N Settlers (164)
3 techs to Zulus, 25<-
3 techs to Vikings
3 techs to Aztecs (they know have what we have)
Persians still demand 250
3 techs to Carthagians, * no gift *
3 techs to Mongols, <-100
-600 COPERNICUS' OBSERVATORY

(PYRAMIDS - Aztecs)
-575 We Love
-550 Aquaduct, S9
-525 Barb Trireme +Dip/Leg
-500 Food, University, Cloth to Zimbabwe (148), 3 Barb Horsemen(h)
1 tech to Zulus
3 techs to Vikings, Maps, * no Ally *
1 tech to Aztecs, Maps, * no Ally *
Peace(P), 3 techs to Persians, want 100 for it so * no Ally *
2 techs to Carthagians (still at war with the Persians!)
2 techs to Mongols (id!)
-450 University, Barb Leader (100), 50(h)
-425 Medicine
-400 * Alliance with Mongols dissolved without notification *
-375 S10, Barb Horsemen(h)
1 tech to Zulus
6 techs to Persians, Ally(P), * no gift *
-350 Seafaring, Wine to Teotihuacan (d,384)
-325 Barb Trireme +Dip/Leg
Harbor
-300 Banking
-250 "Barbarian uprising near Rome"
Barb Leader (100)
Traded for Bridge Building(A), 2 techs to Aztecs, no Ally
3 techs to Vikings, Maps, no Ally
-225 Cloth, Engineering, Barb Leader (100)
-200 Monarchy(h)
8 (all) techs to Carthagians, 150<-C
-175 Food
6 techs to Mongols
-125 Barb Trireme +Dip/Leg
Food, Sanitation

8 (all) techs to Zulus, Maps, no Ally
9 (all) techs to Vikings, Maps, no Ally
Traded for Polytheism (P) to avoid gift
9 (all) techs to Persians, 50<-P
-100 Barb Leader (100)
-75 Food
(MARCO POLO'S EMBASSY - Aztecs)
-50 SHAKESPEARE'S THEATRE

-25 Economics
1 S11, We Love , Wheat into Silk
2 (all) techs to Vikings
5 (all) techs to Aztecs, Maps, no Ally
20 Sewer System, S12

4 (all) techs to Mongols, Maps
40 S13
60 Barb Trireme +Dip/Leg
Invention, S14
80 Food, S15
100 S16, Barb Leader (100)
120 Stock Exchange, S17
140 Democracy, DEMOCRACY, S18
160 Food
180 S20, 2 (all) techs to Aztecs, Maps, no Ally
3 (all) techs to Persians, <-50
4 (all) techs to Carthagians, <-200
200 Food, Theory of Gravity, S21

Cloth to Uppsala (d,392)
220 Barb Caravel +Dip/Leg
S22
240 Food, Chemistry, S23
260 We Love ends , br Barb Horsemen
280 Barbs Dip+2Horsemen
Food, Gunpowder
320 Food, Explosives
9 (all) techs to Zulus, Maps, no Ally
7 (all) techs to Vikings, Maps, no Ally
3 (all) techs to Aztecs, Maps, no Ally
5 (all) techs to Persians, no Gift
5 (all) techs to Carthagians, 100<-C
7 (all) techs to Mongols, Maps
340 Barb Leader (100)
360 Metallurgy, Br Barb->N Horsemen, Br Barb->N Archers,
di 2 N-Legions
(GREAT LIBRARY - Persians)
380 Barb Caravel +Dip/Knights
ISAAC NEWTON'S COLLEGE

400 Physics
420 Food
440 Magnetism, Barb Leader (100), Br Barb->N Horsemen
460 Food, Barb Leader (100), Br Barb->N Archers
480 Electricity, Br Barb->N Archers
500 LEONARDO'S WORKSHOP -> 3 NONE Engineers ,

Br Barb->N Archers
520 Refrigeration

Br Barb->N Horsemen
540 Barb Frigate +Dip/Crusaders
Supermarket
560 Steam Engine, Br 2 Barb->N Horsemen
580 Barb Leader (100)
600 Railroad
all techs to Zulus, Maps, no Ally
all techs to Vikings, Maps, no Ally
all techs to Aztecs, Maps, no Ally
all techs to Persians, Maps, 250<-P
all techs to Carthagians, Maps, 200
all techs to Mongols, Maps, no Ally
620 Food, Br Barb Legion
640 Industrialization
(STATUE OF LIBERTY - Aztecs)
660 Food
680 The Corporation
700 Barb Frigate + Dip/Cru
Food, We Love , Br Barb->N Knights
720 Refining, Br Barb->N Crusaders, S24
740 Food, S25
760 Steel, S26, Br Barb Crusaders
780 Food, S27, Barb Leader (100)
800 "Peasant revolt near Rome!"
Conscription, S28
820 Factory, S29, Br 2 Barb->N Musketeers, Barb Leader (100)
840 Feudalism, S30
860 Barb Frigate +Dip/Cru
We Love ends
880 Power Plant, Chivalry, Br Barb->N Crusaders,
Barb Leader, Br Barb->N Musketeers
900 Br Barb->N Musketeers, Barb Leader (100)
920 Leadership
Industrialization->P, 200<-P
Industrialization->C, Conscription->C, no Gift
960 Tactics, di N-Riflemen
980 DARWIN'S VOYAGE -> Combustion, Automobile

1000 Mass Production
Conscription->P, 50<-P
Industrialization->Z, Maps(Z)
Industrialization->V, Maps(V)
Industrialization->A, Maps(A)
Industrialization->M, Maps(M)
1020 Barb Frigate +Dip/2!! Dragoons
Superhighways, Barb Leader (100)
1040 "Peasant Revolt" - 31 Barb Musketeers & Cannons
Electronics, di N-Riflemen
1060 Mass Transit, Grassland/r into Hills/r, di N-Riflemen
1080 Food, Barb Leader (100)
1100 sold Sewer System
Tactics->C, 225<-C
1120 Miniaturization, sold Aquaduct
1140 Offshore Platform
1160 Food, Computers, di N-Cavalry

1180 Barb Frigate +Dip/2Dra
Research Lab
1200 Food, Mobile Warfare, Hill/r mined
Tactics->P, our two allies are at war
1220 Food * does no-one want any commodity anymore? *
1240 Food, Robotics, Br Barb Trireme, Barb Leader (100)
1260 Food
1280 Barb horde reaches Zulu ground
Food, Flight, di N-Riflemen
1300 Manufacturing Plant, Plains into Grassland(s)
1320 Radio
1360 Advanced Flight
1380 (WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE - Aztecs)
1400 * 31 Barb Musketeers and Cannons cannot dent Zulu Phalanx defender
Rocketry
1440 Space Flight, Plains into Grassland/s
1460 APOLLO PROGRAM

1480 SSS, Plastics
1500 SSS
1510 SSS, Atomic Theory
1520 SSS, Plains into Grassland(s)
1530 SSS, Nuclear Fission, Barb leader (100)
1540 SSS
(ADAM SMITH'S TRADING CO. - Mongols)
1550 SSS, Nuclear Power
1560 SSS
1570 SSS, The laser
(MICHELANGELO'S CHAPEL - Persians)
1580 SSS
1590 SSS, Superconductor
1600 SSS
1610 SSS, Fusion Power, Plains into Grassland(s)
1620 SSS
1630 SSS
1640 SSM
1650 SSM
1660 SSM
1670 SSC
1680 SSC, Recycling, LAUNCH the "ATTILA"

1681 City Wall
1682 Aquaduct
1683 Environmentalism
1685 Solar Plant, sold Power Plant
1686 Communism
1687 SDI Defense
1688 SAM Missile Battery
1689 Airport
(MAGELLAN'S EXPEDITION - Aztecs)
1691 HANGING GARDENS
1692 Genetic Engineering
1695 Stealth
1697 UNITED NATIONS
* It appears that we are at war with the Mongols without our knowledge! *
1698 Theology
1701 Combined Arms
1703 CURE FOR CANCER
1704 Amphibious Warfare
1706 (SETI PROGRAM - Aztecs)
1707 Guerilla Warfare
1708 JS BACH'S CATHEDRAL
1709 Sewer System, We Love
1710 Labor Union, S31
1711 We Love ends
1713 EIFFEL TOWER, Fundamentalism
1715 LIGHTHOUSE, We Love

1716 The "ATTILA" lands on ALPHA CENTAURI

------------------
If you have no feet, don't walk on fire

**Paul** · September 9, 2000, 13:14

Thanks to the 15-1-1-1-1-1 spaceship needing 36 turns to get to AC this was the first OCC game where I got into the future techs.

Monarchy: -2250
Republic: -625
Democracy: 540

Colossus: -2200
Copernicus: -100
Shakespeare: -25
Newton: 340
Darwin: 880
Apollo: 1520

Trade routes: -950, -725, -700

Trade: -1500
Construction: -1350
Sanitation: 40
Refrigeration: 580
Automobile: 900
Computers: 1240
Space Flight: 1510

Size 11: -325
Size 19: 260

4000 BC Rome
3950 BC Hut: Horsemen
3850 BC Hut: Horseback Riding
3800 BC Hut: Archers
3750 BC Mongols: peace
3600 BC Hut: Wandering Nomad
3450 BC Aztecs: trade Alphabet; peace
3350 BC Hut: Ceremonial Burial
3200 BC Hut: 50 gold
3150 BC Code of Laws
2900 BC Hut: Barbarians
2850 BC Aztecs: alliance
2800 BC Persians: alliance; gift Masonry
2650 BC Hut: Warrior Code
2400 BC Hut: Archers
2350 BC Carthaginians: peace; tribute 50 gold
2300 BC Aztecs: gift 50 gold
Mongols: war
2250 BC Monarchy, change gov
Barb Leader: 100 gold
Persians: trade Map Making; gift 50 gold
2200 BC Colossus
Persians: share maps
Mongols: peace
2150 BC Aztecs: share maps
2000 BC Barb Leader: 100 gold
1950 BC Aztecs: gift 100 gold
Persians: gift Currency
Carthaginians: tribute 25 gold
1900 BC Marketplace
1850 BC Aztecs: trade Writing
Persians: gift 100 gold
1800 BC Library
1650 BC Temple
Aztecs: gift 50 gold
Persians: gift 50 gold
Mongols: tribute 25 gold
1500 BC Trade
1400 BC Build Copper Caravan
1350 BC Persians: gift 50 gold
Carthaginians: trade Construction
Mongols: tribute 50 gold
1250 BC Build Wine Caravan
1200 BC Aztecs: gift 50 gold
1100 BC Build Hides Caravan
Mongols: trade Wheel
1000 BC Barb Leader: 100 gold
975 BC Hut: Engineering
950 BC Hides to Samarkand (demanded): 68 gold
925 BC Colosseum
Literacy
900 BC Aztecs: gift 25 gold
Persians: gift 100 gold
Carthaginians: share maps
Mongols: war
875 BC Build Cloth Caravan
850 BC Barb Leader: 100 gold
825 BC Build Gold Caravan
800 BC Barb Leader: 100 gold
750 BC Zulus: war
725 BC Aztecs: trade Iron Working; gift 100 gold
Persians: trade Mathematics; gift 100 gold
Copper to Tenochtitlan (demanded): 136 gold
700 BC Aqueduct
Gold to Samarkand (not demanded): 32 gold
650 BC Mongols: tribute 50 gold
625 BC Build Wine Caravan
Republic, change gov
Start WLTCD, size 4
575 BC Cloth to Texcoco (not demanded): 84 gold
Hut: Invention
475 BC Vikings: trade Pottery; alliance; share maps; gift 100 gold
Persians: gift Polytheism
Carthaginians: alliance
Mongols: share maps
Barb Leader: 100 gold
450 BC End WLTCD, size 11
425 BC Aztecs: trade Bridge Building
375 BC Mysticism
Start WLTCD, size 11
325 BC Hut: 50 gold
End WLTCD, size 12
Sold Colosseum
275 BC Barb Settler killed by Aztecs
Vikings: gift 25 gold
Persians: gift 100 gold
200 BC Sold Temple
175 BC Bribe Barb Settler
Aztecs: gift 200 gold
125 BC Astronomy
100 BC Copernicus' Observatory
Barb Leader: 100 gold
Wine to Susa (demanded): 255 gold
50 BC Philosophy, Medicine
25 BC Shakespeare's Theatre
Vikings: gift 50 gold
Carthaginians: gift 50 gold
1 AD Zulus: cease fire; share maps
20 AD Build Copper Caravan
Start WLTCD, size 12
40 AD Sanitation
60 AD Sewer System
120 AD Seafaring
180 AD Aztecs: gift 150 gold
Persians: gift 100 gold
Hut: 50 gold
200 AD University
220 AD University
240 AD Barb Trireme bribed
Barb Leader: 100 gold
260 AD Banking
End WLTCD, size 21
280 AD Copper to Teotihuacan (demanded): 200 gold
300 AD Bank
Theory of Gravity
320 AD Hut: Barbarians
340 AD Isaac Newton's College
Gunpowder
360 AD Barb Leader: 100 gold
380 AD Metallurgy
420 AD Navigation
440 AD Barb Leader: 100 gold
460 AD Physics
500 AD Magnetism
520 AD Persians: gift Democracy, revolution
540 AD Gov: Democracy
560 AD Electricity
Gems to Texcoco (demanded): 303 gold
580 AD Refrigeration
600 AD Supermarket
620 AD Chemistry
660 AD Explosives
Aztecs: trade Economics
Persians: gift 100 gold
Mongols: alliance; share maps; gift 150 gold
680 AD Engineer
700 AD Steam Engine
Bribe Barb Frigate
Barb Leader: 100 gold
720 AD Engineer
740 AD Railroad
Start WLTPD, size 19
760 AD Stock Exchange
780 AD Industrialization
Persians: gift 100 gold
800 AD Barb Leader: 100 gold
820 AD Corporarion
Aztecs: gift 25 gold
Mongols: gift 75 gold
860 AD Steel
880 AD Darwin's Voyage: Refining, Combustion
End WLTPD, size 25
Barb Leader: 100 gold
Sold Sewer System
Bribe Barb Frigate
900 AD Automobile
920 AD Build Gems Freight
Sold Aqueduct
940 AD Electronics
Persians: trade Conscription
Mongols: gift 75 gold
960 AD Superhighways
980 AD Feudalism
1020 AD Chivalry
1040 AD Factory
1060 AD Leadership
1080 AD Power Plant
Barb Leader: 100 gold
1100 AD Tactics
Mongols: gift 100 gold
Gems to Bactra (demanded): 650 gold
1120 AD Machine Tools
Bribe Barb Frigate
1160 AD Miniaturization
1180 AD Offshore Platform
Mongols: 100 gold
1200 AD Build Gems Freight
Barb Leader: 100 gold
1240 AD Computers
1260 AD Research Lab
1280 AD Mobile Warfare
1320 AD Robotics
1340 AD Manufacturing Plant
1360 AD Flight
1400 AD Radio
1440 AD Advanced Flight
Zulus: trade Atomic Theory
1480 AD Rocketry
Gems to Arbela (demanded): 398 gold
1510 AD Space Flight
1520 AD Apollo Program
1530 AD Plastics
1550 AD Nuclear Fission
1580 AD Nuclear Power
1600 AD Laser
1620 AD Superconductor
1640 AD Fusion Power
1660 AD Communism
1690 AD Guerilla Warfare
1710 AD Labor Union
1720 AD Launch 15-1-1-1-1-1
1721 AD Carthaginians: cancel alliance
Recycling
1723 AD Mass Transit
Environmentalism
Zulus: war
1725 AD Solar Plant
1726 AD Aztecs: cancel alliance
Espionage
1729 AD Combined Arms
1730 AD Mongols: 1100 gold for war on Aztecs
1731 AD United Nations
1732 AD Stealth
Steal Theology, Genetic Engineering from Aztecs
1733 AD Steal Monotheism from Aztecs
1735 AD Fundamentalism
1736 AD Steal Amphibious Warfare from Zulus
1738 AD Future Tech 1
1740 AD Zulus: peace
1741 AD Future Tech 2
1744 AD SDI
Future Tech 3
1746 AD SAM
Aztecs: peace
1747 AD Future Tech 4
1749 AD Zulus: war
1750 AD Future Tech 5
1752 AD Aztecs: sneak attack
1753 AD Manhattan Project
1754 AD Future Tech 6
1756 AD Arrival at AC

Announcement

OCC fortnight #17

OCC fortnight #17

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