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  • Trade

    I like to trade once airport becomes available and send freight across the globe to small cities I've built near other civs. Do you believe that this is a late start? Are the benefits of trading at the beginning of a game better?

  • #2
    I imagine this will become a very large thread so I will get my three ha'p'orth in first...
    The largest single advantage of trade is the hidden science bonus - when you make a trade route the initial gold bonus is matched in science beakers - this is by no means obvious until you start to look for it!
    The other advantage of course is the ongoing trade arrows make unhappiness easier to control and increase your native research rate - hence the Super Science City and OCC strategies of getting three very early trade routes.
    Good civin'

    Scouse Git[1]

    "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
    "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
    "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit


    • #3
      Airports make it possible to have but one turn between completion of a freight unit and delivery on a distant continent. It is a good time to build lots of freight units and use the proceeds to build more airports and freight units.

      In my opinion you should start building caravans much earlier. If you start delivering caravans to AI civilizations in the 1 AD to 1000 AD era you will see that a caravan can often yield more science than all your cities can produce in one turn. With a little luck you can get as much science as all your cities can produce in five or six turns. If you can, trade with AI civilizations that are Republics.

      If you deliver lots of caravans you will have lots of money. That means you can afford to rush build stuff if you find yourself in a bind.

      While the money is nice the big advantage is that the science bonus will give you a huge technological lead. If you get into a war you will lose far fewer units. Howitzers are rarely defeated by fortified pikemen.

      Unless you can think of a really good reason to build something other than a caravan, build a caravan.
      If you can not think of a good reason to build something other than a caravan, build a caravan!


      • #4
        Trade from the first minute you acquire the tech.

        Mono Rules!
        " ... and the following morning I should see the Boks wallop the Wallabies again?" - Havak
        "The only thing worse than being quoted in someone's sig is not being quoted in someone's sig." - finbar, with apologies to Oscar Wilde.


        • #5
          As you approach the discovery of trade, have your cities building units which can be switched to caravans as soon as the tech is researched.
          SG (2)
          "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
          "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit


          • #6
            Yes you should send caravans ASAP.It may not seem worth it at first as returns are smaller but do it anyway.

            You may want to do some self trading.1 caravan will give you 2 routes.If I'm isolated or on a large map and haven't found anybody I set up internal routes.

            Internal trade can be fairly lucrative.Its a quantity over quality type thing.

            I also do this in MP as maybe I don't want others to share in my trading business until some kind of alliance is established.
            Of course my civs are always open for caravans.No tariffs,no worries
            Just don't hang around for too long blocking traffic.
            The only thing that matters to me in a MP game is getting a good ally.Nothing else is as important.......Xin Yu


            • #7
              I usually find that by the time I've got airports, I've got enough of a lead on the AI that I don't really need to do much more trading. Usually by that point in the game, I've taken out most of the AIs cities and it is more hassle than it is worth to find a city that is looking for the freight you are trying to deliver. I've never really bothered with self-trade. It doesn't seem worthwhile to spend as many shields as a caravan costs for the relatively minor bonus you get. In the later stages of the game, I pretty much just use freight to rush build wonders.
              Novi Nomad


              • #8
                Early caravans have great advantages to them, especially if sent by ship to another continent, this can provide a substanial boost in cash, science and trade. Airports in cunjuction with railroads can give you incredible ammounts of money and science. They are especially useful when playing against humans, less against the computer... well at least for me, they're usually dead long before the time of radio. I guess I'm like ming, vet crusaders and dippies


                • #9
                  I must seem strange to everyone in this thread but I neglect to trade unless my Civ is bankrupt.

                  I spend my time building wonders and such.

                  In my mind the only two things a caravan/freight is good for are helping build a wonder and bailing you out of an economic crisis.
                  -->Visit CGN!
                  -->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944


                  • #10
                    A caravan costs 50 shields to build.

                    Therefore as a rule of thumb it is worth the effort if it brings you over 50 gold plus 50 beakers as bonus.

                    You need only weigh the delay in (rush-)building other things against future trade route income - which is, unfortunately, the most difficult aspect of the game ...

                    At present my strategy for newly founded cities is:

                    [1] build two settlers to found two more cities if there is room (minimum overlap), then a third to improve the land;
                    [2] build 3 trade routes to my SSC;
                    [3] build a library and a marketplace, in that order.

                    (The SSC will not build any caravans itself, it will build all my wonders and rush-build improvements in between. One city - typically with little room to grow - will start sending food caravans to my SSC when the SSC gets to size 13.)

                    There will generally be no more caravans later by the same city, except possibly to help build wonders (typically cities with 13, 17 or 25 shields).

                    Military units (to maintain order) and temples are built only when needed, the SSC is supposed to help out here with Mike's Chapel and the Oracle (much underestimated!).

                    This is still wide open to perfection and modification, but I'm getting closer to AD 1800 with my spaceship (Deity, 125x80). Mostly under Communism btw.

                    - Rib -
                    A horse! A horse! Mingapulco for a horse! Someone must give chase to Brave Sir Robin and get those missing flags ...
                    Project Lead of Might and Magic Tribute


                    • #11
                      Ok, I've lurked here long enough. I've been Civving for years (between wifely demands to stop or leave), and I've been a regular reader here for many months. With OCC, I've become newly addicted and my eyes have been opened to the wonders of trade.

                      When trying to compete informally in the fortnight challenges, I find that I can't seem to reach the 2turn/tech level that others do. I attribute that to fewer Caravans/freights as I seem to be right up there in wonder building, rushbuying, etc.

                      My question is whether it is worthwhile to rushbuild caravans, and secondarily, how does one build so many commodity caravans. After 3 or 4, I'm usually stuck with food only and only use them for wonder building.
                      "Then what happened"


                      • #12
                        Welcome, Phaedrus.

                        Regarding 2 turns per discovery. Are you giving most (if not all) of your science away to the AI civs? All of the AI civs? This is quite important in OCC, as there is a relationship between tech requirements and how far ahead you are in science. Other than that, are you building all your science improvements (library, Colossus, Copernicus, Isaac Newton's, university) and switching to Democracy (where you can set the science rate to 90 or even 100 percent).

                        New trade commodities slowly appear over time. I usually don't get more than 5 or 6 extra ones (after the initial 3) over the course of a game. Most of those come post industrialization.


                        • #13
                          Welcome again

                          About rushbuilding caravans, in OCC I rushbuild everything if I have the money for it, even food-caravans. Wait one turn to get shields in the box, buy the next (if there isn't enough shields-production to complete the item).
                          Within weeks they'll be re-opening the shipyards
                          And notifying the next of kin
                          Once again...


                          • #14
                            Welcome Phaedrus - another OCCer is always welcome (if only as another person I might perhaps be able to beat - there aren't that many! )
                            For my guess - the likely reason you can't reach 2 turns/advance is that you are relying on tax income not ally gifts to fund your city. As often as not we are running our OC at a tax deficit to maximise the science output, the coffers are kept full by regularly demanding gifts from our allies - the F3 key gets seriously worn by an OCC game.

                            Good civin'

                            ps - added in edit - and don't forget the important 'happy improvements' Marketplace, Bank & (not always) Stock Exchange!!
                            Scouse Git[1]

                            "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor
                            [This message has been edited by Scouse Gits (edited August 16, 2000).]
                            "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                            "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit


                            • #15
                              Thank you for the welcome and welcome advice. I do wear out the F3 key in my OCC games and I try to keep science as high as possible all the time. I think where I get behind is in gifting techs to all. Don't get me wrong, I give away everything until they start asking for mobile warfare, advanced flight or robotics or something that can get me killed in 1 turn. In every game I've played however, take OCC#14 for example, there is always at least one AI that won't make peace unless I give them big bucks and I know they just plan on attacking next turn anyway. It's just give me money or give me war.

                              I noticed some of you got allied with all the AIs in that game and kept it that way. I still don't see how.
                              "Then what happened"