I'll have a Multiplayer match with beginners... everyone read and reply, please

[Strategist]

...and they'll want to play on Warlord level.

My problem: I ususally play Deity, and whenever I have a match against one of those bastards, the difficulty level will be Prince or lower and they, having got used to that beginner-level are more successful with their strategies than I am with my Deity strategies. Not only that they then think that they're better than me, also will they REALLY have more success.

My questions are:

1. How can I prevent a player who builds only a few, big cities from building the wonders I want first. Of course I'll have a scientific supremacy against those losers, but at least one of them will always steal the technology from other civs... and whenever I want to build one of my favourites (wonders), he'll finish it before me because his cities have higher production than mine, for my cities have produced more settlers and are smaller...
When I manage it to discover trade early enough, I'll beat him at the wonder's race, but if my cities will be able to produce the caravans fast enough is not very likely to be...
And I won't ever be stupid enough to build a small empire which consist of big cities for myself. Or would that be a better idea?

What will I have to do to manage this?

2. They will be stupid enough to make war against AI-civs (go away, AI, I'm not talking to you ). On this way they're able to wide out their empires, for the AI-civ is dumbass enough, especially on such a low difficulty level. Additionally, I, got used to Deity level as I am, won't make any war against them. Surely I could but my subconscious will always prevent me from doing it...

What will I have to do, that their advance by conquering those dumbass nations won't get them too far?

3. Is it better to change to Republic without ever having been in Monarchy when playing on Warlord or Prince level? When I played Warlord I used to skip Monarchy. What do you think about that?

Perhaps further questions will come later...
And maybe I can tell you how the match is going while I'm playing it...

Could anyone even give a clue about the first 20 technologies on Warlord or Prince level?

Thank you
Strategist

P.S.: My username is only to cover my actual incomptence...

[SCG]

I personally would bypass monarchy, and go directly to republic, but then I do that even on diety level. I find the trade bonuses and growing potential far outweigh the 3 unit supports. And in warlord, you don't need those 3 for martial law. In republic you can get those loved/hated WLTxD's and grow quickly enough to not worry about the lost 3 shields, since you will likely get more than 3 from the larger size.

If you really worry about techs being stolen, and there isn't much you can do about spotting/destroying dips before they are in range, then my suggestion would be to slow down your science rate so that they have less to steal. The trade off is that you will have more gold to buy a wonder outright, or more luxuries to spend on WLTxD's, growing your cities larger. And a second side effect of more gold is you can buy off nearby AI cities if you don't want to make war with them (or does no city-bribe apply to AI as well?) or at least get more NON units to patrol for tech-stealing dips.

As for first 20 techs - as always that is completely dependant on your style of play, and the game developments. Although things like monotheism might be lower priority since you are effectively starting out with a cathedral in every city for free.

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April Cantor: Sire, in order to expand further we must first gain favor of the King

SCG: darn, I've never really got the hang of that tribute thing, guess it will be a long time until i make prince

*goes off and starts gifting gold and techs*

[Mao]

Strategist, how was your vacation? Last time I checked, you were having fun right?

[tolstoy]

Well the easiest way to get around your problem of lossing wonders is to build up an army and take the city. But if you want a more peaceful solution, tax the hell out of your people and have you cities build caravans and your settlers build roads to your capital to build your wonders. And its even faster if you build up your infrastucture of your capital with the settlers of other cities and build the Crusadies wonder too. You can have alot of small cities but you should always build up your capital so it can produce wonders fast. And doesn't worry about the taxes so high on low levels you can still gain tech fast enough on monarchy or republic to get wow faster then you can build them.

[geofelt]

To build a wonder early, before caravans are available, try:
1) Demand tribute of the AI civs. You will be pleasantly surprised at how much gold you get.
2) Use units(dip, horsemen, etc.) built in nearby cities, and sent to the wonder city to be disbanded. This is not as efficient as caravans, but it is available at the beginning.

[Edward]

Strategist,

I've never played a multiplayer game before, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

I fear your Deity strategies aren't optimal for Warlord-Prince. If you want to compete with the other players, you'll have to totally change your outlook. This isn't easy (self change never is) and you'll be going against your instincts often.

Here's my guess at your overall strategy. First, you have early peaceful expansion through building many cities. You add in a heavy dose of scientific research. Finally, in the end game, you come out swinging with a huge empire and superior technology. This works great vs. the AI, perhaps not so well against humans.


1) Early expansion through settlers means few early wonders (unless you're only contending with AI opponents). Either give up on early wonders or change your strategy to having only a few cities early on. It might not be your style, but a human who builds only a few cities then concentrates on wonders, will always get more early wonders than a human who is busy building a lot of cities in the early game.

2) You can't stop them from getting advances from the AI. You can only try to make your science/stealing rate even higher.

3) Depends on your overall strategy. I guess early Republic is more of a possibility on lower levels.


Do the games usually end with the humans taking all your cities by force?


If you want to go the tech route, you MUST restrict yourself to having only a few cities. Otherwise you'll miss out on early science wonders. Also you'll start your tech race more slowly because resources are being taken away from caravans/marketplaces/libraries and being spent on settlers and stuff for new cities. Build a Super Science City (SSC) and just a couple supporting cities. Witness the OCC challenges if you don't believe in the scientific power of a handful of cities.

I envision that it's tough to keep your techs out of human hands. You'll need to surround your (very small) empire with fortresses. You need fortresses on all roads into your empire and you need so many fortresses that anyone coming at you will have to brush up against one of them.


A much better strategy, and the one I suggest to you, is to fight fire with fire. EARLY CONQUEST. As you said, these guys are used to playing at low levels and have more experience at it than you do. They're experts at low level playing - learn from them. Adopt their strategy.

Throw away all your perfectionistic and peaceful inclinations. Don't concentrate on being a scientific power. Build just a couple of cities, get monarchy, and race to Sun Tso's War Academy. No happiness wonders (low level), no science wonders (we'll steal our science through city conquest). No Great Wall - all our battles will be on the offense. If they take one of your cities you'll take it back with your superior numbers.

Once you get Sun Tso's all of your production must go to building offensive units. Let your cities languish - no improvements. Cities are just unit factories.

Build fast units with 2 moves, the best offensive unit you know how to build. You need your army to be mobile. Your strategy will be to overwhelm your foes with superior numbers. Expect heavy casualties - much more than you currently get as a tech-minded perfectionist.

Of course you'll be smarter than the AI and pay attention to terrain, attack en mass with a large force, and will just go around fortresses (not attack them).

Eventually you'll want a few settlers to build roads to get your units to the front lines. You may also need some diplomats to slip your army around fortresses or take down city walls ('though many cities can be defeated even with their walls intact if you have a superior force).

Republic will just slow your production down with unit support and happiness problems. You want units not science. You can steal science. If you steal them, learn the fun of Communism and Fundamentalism (if the game lasts that long).

I think you'll be surprized at what a refreshing change of pace it is to play a petty dictator.

[Ming]

I disagree completely!

Never EVER restrict yourself to just a few cities in MP. That is a the best way to die a quick death.

You can still expand and build wonders too!

No matter what level you are playing, the key to success is expanding your empire as quickly as you can. You must also explore as much as you can. Crank out those settlers, and just keep building cities. After you Capital has cranked out a settler (or maybe two) you can then get it working on an early wonder.

[Scouse Gits]

Strategist - The AI cheats at wonder building, by having them constructed in several cities, and adding up the shields required. The answer is to obtain trade early so you can do the same by making caravans.
You MUST expand quickly. Each city is a production base. Would you rather have 5 cities or 50? With the latter I can build 49 caravans to send to my capital building a wonder. With the former only 4!
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SG (2)

[Strategist]

Scouse Gits: I'm not talking about AI civs, old man I mean MP enemies! human intelligence. the AI will probably be behind us anyways. but thank you for the hint

[cavebear]

A slightly different take...

I suggest using ideas that are not well-understood by those who only play at the "easier" levels. First, they are not likely to be familiar with a SSC. Build one.

Expand rapidly, of course; that is almost always good strategy, and you will probably be better at it than them. But you will have to balance that with some experienced defense (follows).

Try to build the border cities using the mined hill idea. They won't be prepared for a city that defends with that advantage *and* produces so well. And they can't pillage the city square (they won't understand where your production is coming from).

Go for triremes and trade early and get on 2 land masses. The trade bonuses will leave them in trouble.

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Proud participant in GameLeague...

Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance...

[Strategist]

1. I already told one of them about the ined hill thingy

2. the mined hill city doesn't produce THAT much

3. they don't pillage, they're stupid

4. I don't know anything about an SSC

[Smash]

I don't know about everybody else but in my first few MP games I was extremely vulnerable to early attack.A couple of vet knights could have rolled over me.

Didn't have a clue about trade either.You should be able to out-research them.

The only problem I have seen is deity players "forgetting" that there is no unhappiness to be dealt with.Sometimes you can get "out expanded" in the first session because you have gotten used to deity.But a better understanding of combat odds, trade and "we love" should see a powergraph that goes straight up.

Forget about religion.

[SandMonkey]

Strategist -

SSC = Super Science City

A city with Colossus, Cop. Obs., Isaac Newton's College, and a library/college. That really rakes in the advances. Use that city to get your first trade routes. It also helps if that's the capitol, since you will have no corruption.

You could also do what smash said. Build Sun Tzu's War Academy, and then set all your production to Knights. You're sure to catch your opponents with their pants down.

[Scouse Gits]

Strategist - Sorry I forgot the thread was MP! SG (1) and I have tried a few hot seat games (a poor substitute for MP) - rapid expansion seemed the key to winning. (Make the HG your priority as you will be able to sleaze more efficiently.) If you keep coming second in a wonder race, keep your shields in the wonder building city, and transfer to another one when available.
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SG (2)

[Strategist]

wow. the Great Ming for himself replied to my thread

one question, Ming: what do you think about the fact, that my enemies with their few but big cities are able to produce the early wonders earlier and faster than I? I think that fact is very annoying! and do you think I should skip Monarchy on Warlord and/or Prince level?

thank you