Killing off AI civs will affect your tech discovery rate

[kcbob]

Yes, folks, it's great to be back. I've changed jobs and now can get to Apolyton from work. Sssshhhhh!!!!

Sten makes the best argument for giving away technology. If I'm slowed up in my research by having more, then the AI should also be slowed up. Duh!!!

Boy, I've missed this site.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[Aurelius]

"Most OCCers don't mind (in fact they like) the rate of science being increased for the AI since they expect to get a ship off to AC way before their AI rivals."

Yes, bit confusing and wrong in the context of the thread

The thing about OCC is the AI can't keep up with all the science advancements as efficiently as the One City. Like you can give the AI university as it hasn't even built libraries in most of it's cities. And Economics as AI hasn't gotten marketplaces in its cities. I'd be surprised if AI has a single factory when I give it Electronics. Even Space flight is okay at times as the AI cities usually lack the infrastructure to build a quick space ship.

Yeah, giving away science slows down the AI's tech rate while speeding up the One City's. Too bad it slows down the AI's research! It's usually inconsequential in OCC since AI doesn't have the time to effectively utilize all the science.

So what is the right number of cities to assist the SSC in non-OCC? I have a hard time building and defending more than 3 satellite cities early on as most of my money goes to the SSC.

[kcbob]

This probably an obvious question but wouldn't it depend on the world size on which you're playing? On a small world, which is all I play now, I get to about 6 to 8 cities and then run out of room to expand. That seems to be a managable number in support of the SSC.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[tonic]

quote: Originally posted by Aurelius on 06-20-2000 01:01 PM The thing about OCC is the AI can't keep up with all the science advancements as efficiently as the One City. Like you can give the AI university as it hasn't even built libraries in most of it's cities. And Economics as AI hasn't gotten marketplaces in its cities.

It seems to apply to units too eg in OCC5 there appears to be quite a lag between your giving them (eg the Americans and Dutch), Tactics, and their stopping to flaunt their warriors. Only the Greeks with Leo's were showing off their upgrades.

This is a sort of corollary (with the close link tetween tech and money in OCC): One other negative effect of losing a civ in OCC is a possible loss of revenue, one less cow to milk? In OCC3, like Aurelius, in my game very early on, the Mongols destroyed the Vikings (before 3000BC) which not only decreased the diplomacy cash by one civ but also made the Mongols cocky and belligerent; in effect compared to the others, I lost two sources of easy income!

[Aurelius]

Yeah KC, I usually play on a small map and usually the games involve a shared continent.

Those satellite cities are hard to defend. And they often require resources I need for my SSC. Like rush built city walls. Once they get going it's good, but sometimes they impede the building of wonders in the SSC.

[kcbob]

My brother-in-law comes over to play about every other week. He's only playing his third game and I still have to coach him. He's playing on a large world, has ships sailing to every corner of the globe, and every time he spots a goody hut, it's like pulling teeth to keep him from tipping it over and over and over until he gets an advanced tribe. He has about 50 cities going, the AI has about 200 all total, he saves and reloads constantly, it's about 1800 AD, we've got about 20 hours of playing time invested in this game, and he's just started build factories in a few cities.

Somebody shoot me!
[This message has been edited by kcbob (edited June 22, 2000).]

[Aurelius]

Tonic, I remember that game! OCC3. Yeah, money and trading science were the issues back then. But now it seems to also affects tech research.

Yeah, give those warrior nations Robotics. Can't imagine how long it would take them to build a howie... in OCC5 it would have been good to build a Marine for once!

[Edit: Yes, good use of the word flaunt...]

KC, wasn't it called "reverting?"
[This message has been edited by Aurelius (edited June 23, 2000).]

[kcbob]

Reverting! How soon they forget.

Thanks, A.

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[Matthew]

quote: Originally posted by Tom DeMille on 06-15-2000 10:47 AM . . . . . . . . . . . . . # AIs with 10 techs beakers for | 1 AI . . . . .3 AI . . . 5 AI. . . 6 AI 1st tech . | . 10 . . . . . 10 . . . . 10 . . . . 10 2nd tech . | . 18 . . . . . 18 . . . . 18 . . . . 18 3rd tech . | . 27 . . . . . 27 . . . . 24 . . . . 24 4th tech . | . 36 . . . . . 36 . . . . 32 . . . . 36 5th tech . | . 45 . . . . . 45 . . . . 40 . . . . 45 6th tech . | . 66 . . . . . 66 . . . . 48 . . . . 54 7th tech . | . 84 . . . . . 84 . . . . 63 . . . . 63 8th tech . | . 96 . . . . . 96 . . . . 72 . . . . 80 9th tech . | . 108 . . . . 108. . . . 81 . . . . 90 10th tech. | . 130 . . . . 130. . . . 110. . . .110 You can see from the above table that by holding off giving anything to a single AI, my beaker requirements go down. This might explain some of the strange behaviour we see in OCC games. Sometimes beaker requirements will actually go up after we gift science to everyone. The moral of the story... I'm still working on that. [This message has been edited by Tom DeMille (edited June 15, 2000).]

I'm glad you did this. Having read this I realized something about my 1525 large world A.C. game. I was quite surprized that on a large map a super science city was able to get half of the science necessary for a tech discovery, and then some every turn. I don't believe that the rest of my civ combined was contributing even a 3rd of the beakers the SSC was) I'm quite sure that my beaker requirement never got over 2000. Granted, there were a lot of thechs I wasn't forced to research, but still, I'd have thought that the penalty would have been higher. But I realized something late last night when I should have been asleep. I was pretty liberal in giving techs away toall civs, but I never had much occasionto even talk to the Vikings. So they were always way behind the other AI's in tech. (Didn't talk to the Zulus much either, cause they kept asking for tribute, but I think they got techs from the other civs. Noone liked the vikings.)

Another thing I noticed. Up to the very end Secret alliances were being formed not against me, but the Chinese. Probably also significant.